Dies to Removal

We have 10 players. Do we know how many scum in the game? Any more than 2 and one of them can be gimped without hurting the scum team much if at all.

I'm pretty sure there's only two of them.

Explain yourself

Reasons.

Given that the only reasons I can think of are easily summarized in you being scum, I'd say something is off.
Whatever.

Given that the only reasons I can think of are easily summarized in you being scum, I'd say something is off.

++

Whatever.

??

@Rezombad, this

I'd rather have a sleb who can't communicate out of the game than a sleb who can.

Rianalnn if you show some actual intention by voting someone scummy (like stardust) I'd be behind you 100%

I didn't agree with Stardust gaining the label of scummy over the vote count issue. He shortly went from "Vote Stardust" to just "Vote anyone" so it didn't really feel like misdirection to me at that point, like I said it felt more like he was just a new player testing out the waters. Not to say I'm disregarding to completely however, just I'm not taking it too seriously yet.

Half a joke about the previous game, half an assumption he's going to end up claiming sooner than later. I didn't like how he began labeling people as scummy right off that bat, because I didn't agree with him at this point. The double vote thing wasn't enough of a basis to label someone two pages into the game in my opinion. I'm planning on not taking him too seriously yet with the labeling however, it doesn't feel like an attempt at misdirection just a newer player testing the waters. Opinion is subject to change though.

I'm a bit confused by this. You think "he's going to end up claiming sooner than later", presumably because he's scummy, but you don't want to try to push for that claim. Can you do me a favour and ask Jamie two revealing questions in your next post?


imopen, I should have been voting for Jamie in both your previous votecounts. Oh. Unless you're actually living by rule 6. Right!

Unvote hammy, Vote Jamie.

Basically the reasoning I gave Rezombad remains the same. And revealing in what way?

@Dechs, care to share your reasons with everyone? You're kind of painting a huge target on yourself right now.

Given that the only reasons I can think of are easily summarized in you being scum, I'd say something is off.

++

Whatever.

??

I was thinking about voting him, but that would mean putting him at L-2 before giving him a chance to explain himself.

@Dechs, care to share your reasons with everyone? You're kind of painting a huge target on yourself right now.

You think I don't know that?

No, I'd rather not share my reasons. I don't think it's a good idea for me to reveal anything right now.

I'm pretty sure there's only two scum to worry about. Can we start trying to find them now?

Sure thing Dechs, who should I vote for?

I think Jamie's one of them. I really don't like his "vote for anyone, it can be random" push on Rindawg (nevermind that Barky already had a vote someone) and then following up with "I wasn't telling him to vote randomly."

It's the same attitude he had in the last game where he turned out to be scum. That's secondary, though. He shouldn't push people to vote randomly if he's town. He should know those people are already voting if he's town. He shouldn't contradict himself within a matter of two posts if he's town.

Ok, seems like a good candidate.

Unvote
Vote Jamie

Go ahead and explain your vote.

I had intended to vote him as a continuation of an RVS wagon. When I went to check on that wagon (and perhaps get some reads there), I realised I wasn't actually on it. I decided the value was still there, so I jumped on.

Reading back now, I think Jamie is probably town. His explanation follows very well with how things actually went down, and the wording of this post rings town to me considering his motivations at the time.

Unvote.


Dechs, what do you think of all that? Do you really see his random vote thing as a push towards anything other than information? What was he hoping to gain there?
While you're at it, why did you vote rcw? Why did you unvote rcw?

And revealing in what way?

I meant questions that you think might help to reveal something about his alignment. They can be anything so long as you think you might be able to read something from the response.

Reading back now, I think Jamie is probably town. His explanation follows very well with how things actually went down, and the wording of this post rings town to me considering his motivations at the time.

Unvote.

Dechs, what do you think of all that? Do you really see his random vote thing as a push towards anything other than information? What was he hoping to gain there?

It's not the random vote push that made me suspect him. Look how he reacted to my #90. His response is in #93. He immediately backed out and claimed "I didn't want him to rvs." That just seemed slimy to me and that's when I voted him.

Also, look again at the post you're pointing out as town motivated. That's him setting up justification for hanging a player he doesn't have any better than even odds of being scum. He also tries to direct Lassie's vote while completely missing the fact that Lassie already has a vote out there. Nothing in this seems town to me.

While you're at it, why did you vote rcw? Why did you unvote rcw?

I voted RCW because, at the time, we really didn't have a lot to go on. I iso'd him and saw only four posts. Two don't count (his confirm and correcting vote tags). One was a RVS vote and the fourth was an out of game comment that I found mildly suspicious. At the time, it was the best thing I had to go on.

As an alternative to rvs (and because I tire of rvs going beyond like 5 posts) how about an open ended question for everyone to answer.

Do you bluff having an ability as vanilla town and are being forced to claim?

Every time I've claimed my real role I've been killed for it, whether I had an ability or was vanilla. So in my experience it doesn't matter whatsoever, and people will simply react according to how they're predisposed to acting toward you in the game.

It looks like he's already setting up the "everyone always thinks I'm scum" defense.

I unvoted because of the thing with Jamie. I see Jamie as more of a scum suspect than RCW right now. They're both on the scum end of my read spectrum, and I'll go back to RCW if that wagon gets rolling.

This dechs guy seems like he's goin places

*whine*

Go ahead and explain your vote.

I had intended to vote him as a continuation of an RVS wagon. When I went to check on that wagon (and perhaps get some reads there), I realised I wasn't actually on it. I decided the value was still there, so I jumped on.

Reading back now, I think Jamie is probably town. His explanation follows very well with how things actually went down, and the wording of this post rings town to me considering his motivations at the time.

Unvote.


Dechs, what do you think of all that? Do you really see his random vote thing as a push towards anything other than information? What was he hoping to gain there?
While you're at it, why did you vote rcw? Why did you unvote rcw?

And revealing in what way?

I meant questions that you think might help to reveal something about his alignment. They can be anything so long as you think you might be able to read something from the response.

And what value was that?

*whine*

calm down. You're not even black

Please vote for anyone. It can be a random vote. It can be a vote on me. I want you to vote to lynch day one.

Dechs, I'm not asking him to rvs. I am looking for information on the restriction he's playing under.

Vote Jamie

This is the contradiction you think you found? You're really grasping at straws. I'd hate to bring up that I'm a moron again, but I wanted confirmation that Rianalnn could vote for someone- anyone - and get any information about whatever restriction he's playing under. The vote would be random (or I specifically listed Stardust, my randomvote at the beginning of the game) to try to make the vote as easy and informationless as possible for him.

It turns out he had already voted and I'm blind.

I mean feel free to find scumtells or dumbtells out of that situation but I feel that's some weak case right there.

And what value was that?

Information. Get a wagon going, see who jumps on, see how the target reacts.


Dechs, your case on Jamie is extremely weak. The post I pointed to as reading town is so overtly aggressive. Nothing there is underhanded - he's stating his intention very clearly. If you actually believe his story (I do), it makes perfect sense in context and looks to me like that's his natural way of playing this game. The error that he made with kpaca's vote is also something that a townie is more likely to do. Certainly it must be an error, because scum would never intentionally distort the truth that far, but I also think that scum would never make that error (and jump on kpaca in error) to begin with.

Your case on rcw is slightly stronger, but still a stretch. It seems to me that you're latching onto these things a bit too strongly, and shifting your vote in places that don't make sense from that mindset.

Vote Dechs Kaison.

unvote

Will read the last page or two on my lunch break.

And what value was that?

Dechs, your case on Jamie is extremely weak. The post I pointed to as reading town is so overtly aggressive. Nothing there is underhanded - he's stating his intention very clearly. If you actually believe his story (I do), it makes perfect sense in context and looks to me like that's his natural way of playing this game. The error that he made with kpaca's vote is also something that a townie is more likely to do. Certainly it must be an error, because scum would never intentionally distort the truth that far, but I also think that scum would never make that error (and jump on kpaca in error) to begin with.

Your case on rcw is slightly stronger, but still a stretch. It seems to me that you're latching onto these things a bit too strongly, and shifting your vote in places that don't make sense from that mindset.

Yeah, both my cases suck, but they're the best I have.

I was pushing Jamie for his reaction. Last game, once he saw some pressure, he kinda crumpled under it and went to flailing. He didn't do that this time, so I'm much more inclined to believe him.

I know the RCW case is super weak. It was based on four posts, only two of which did anything at all. I told you, it was the best I had at the time. His posts since then have left me feeling a lot better.

Unvote

But now I'm at a loss. I have no idea where to go from here.

And what value was that?

Information. Get a wagon going, see who jumps on, see how the target reacts.


Dechs, your case on Jamie is extremely weak. The post I pointed to as reading town is so overtly aggressive. Nothing there is underhanded - he's stating his intention very clearly. If you actually believe his story (I do), it makes perfect sense in context and looks to me like that's his natural way of playing this game. The error that he made with kpaca's vote is also something that a townie is more likely to do. Certainly it must be an error, because scum would never intentionally distort the truth that far, but I also think that scum would never make that error (and jump on kpaca in error) to begin with.

Your case on rcw is slightly stronger, but still a stretch. It seems to me that you're latching onto these things a bit too strongly, and shifting your vote in places that don't make sense from that mindset.

Vote Dechs Kaison.

*kpaca jumps up and licks stardust face, happily wagging his tail*


[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=273539#p273539]]

But now I'm at a loss. I have no idea where to go from here.[/quote]

*kpaca looks at a freshly dug grave*

BARK!

K. Hang me. Or make your own damn case, Rindawg.

Can you do that?

unvote: vote dechs kiason

*kpaca sits down dissipointed.*

*kpaca knows he is a good boy not because he is a dog, but because he is a good boy and stops any and all potential incursions from the vile cats*

*BARK BARK*

*kpaca runs back and forth from dechs to jamie for no reason, kinda like dechs does with his vote*

BARK!

Bullshit. I saw something that caught my eye, and I moved a vote from RCW who I had good reason to vote at the time to someone else I wanted to pressure for a reaction.

I mean, after last game I fully expected to be hanged on day one, I just didn't expect it to be over so damn quickly.

Whatever. Hang me today, hunt for scum tomorrow. I've got other things to do.

Or you could like... Claim

unvote dechs

Anyway, Jamie's not scum. Night and day different from his last game's reaction.

I haven't seen anything that really screams scum yet this game. Rez is doing his usual thing: terse questions.

Ham's interesting this game. He followed my Jamie wagon and backed off as soon as I came under scrutiny for standing on something I believed in until I saw Jamie's reaction (and most certainly not vote hopping like Barky thinks I'm doing).

Be wary of Lurk McDonalds. He's pretty good at not giving anything away and flying under the radar.

Or you could like... Claim

unvote dechs

You can pry my claim from my PM this game.

I don't see the point of not claiming

Please elaborate that point

I'm not giving the scum team any information about my role.

But if we hang you, they'll have it anyway... And if you're not scum you're doing a disservice to us by letting us lynch you instead of having the opportunity to find scum.

vote dechs

That's l-1 if I can count numbers of things.

Nope. Because they'll just play around it if I reveal anything. I'm only good if I don't. Otherwise, you might as well hang me.

What's so hard to figure out about this?

,unvote dechs

I'm gonna reread, but I reserve the right to hammer.

It's not like I haven't breadcrumbed enough.

unvote: vote dechs kiason

*kpaca sits down dissipointed.*

*kpaca knows he is a good boy not because he is a dog, but because he is a good boy and stops any and all potential incursions from the vile cats*

*BARK BARK*

*kpaca runs back and forth from dechs to jamie for no reason, kinda like dechs does with his vote*

BARK!

Nope. Because they'll just play around it if I reveal anything. I'm only good if I don't. Otherwise, you might as well hang me.

This doesn't make any sense. You're saying you don't want to claim because then the scumteam will play around it, but you're assuming that you will survive if you claim. Isn't you surviving a good enough reason to claim? Town wins during the Day, not during the Night.

It's not like I haven't breadcrumbed enough.

You haven't.


hammy, why did you unvote?