[Primer] UR Delver

[MattT]

Anger is indeed better. Forgot about it. Annul has worked well vs Affinity though. It´s all about stopping that Plating or other key card. It´s a trick deck. And Twin doesn´t know and Lighthouse leaves no dead card in the deck. Well, it´s only 1, but the principle is correct

[zemanjaski]

Anyway ~ working on this with Matt Rogers and Sam Loy.

[deck]UR Pyromancer[/deck]
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer

Instants
2 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Vapor Snag

Sorceries
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Serum Visions

Lands
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
[/deck]

[Valdarith]

Looks good. I like three Mana Leak personally, but the cool thing about the deck is that the numbers are tunable for meta and playstyle. I've also found six fetches to be more than sufficient, and the more you run the more awkward Serum Visions is since you tend to bin crap to the bottom only to shuffle it back in the deck after a fetch.

[Purp]

Wow I really like how the modern UR delver looks.

[LP, of the Fires]

I still like cryptic command in these decks. I'm a lunatic, I know but it just seems perfect as your high end spell.

I've also grown to hate remand in this format not because it's bad or anything, but because of how it's either awesome or a blank since curves are so low. At least it cantrips.

[zemanjaski]

Six fetches make turn 1 Lavamancer problematic (and glm worse overall); as well as weakening your own blood moons. I wouldn't run less than eight.

Cryptic is silly.

It's possible serum visions should just be sleight of hand since working hard to flip delver is not how you should be using those cards anyway and that the card goes immediately in hand is relevant.

The deck wants 1 sword of light and shadow in the 75.

[Valdarith]

They should just unban Preordain instead of forcing us to run terrible cantrips.

[LP, of the Fires]

I do find it out seeing a list without green shocks as ancient grudge is a premium sideboard card. I guss you could get away with all the blue tempo affects, but I like being able to kill cranial platings.

[magicdownunder]

[deck=ToW's UR Delver]Lands 19
5 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls

Creatures 14
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Grim Lavamancer

Equipment 01
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Spells 26
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Vapor Snag
1 Electrolyze
1 Spell Pierce

Sideboard 15
1 Combust
2 Counterflux
1 Dispel
2 Izzet Staticaster
3 Molten Rain
1 Negate
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Shatterstorm
1 Twisted Image[/deck]

Consistence MODO results, I do like

[zemanjaski]

Looks solid, but the budget mana base and 2 Remand, 4 Mana Leak stand out. Easy fixes of course.

[magicdownunder]

Looks solid, but the budget mana base and 2 Remand, 4 Mana Leak stand out. Easy fixes of course.

I'm not sure if its due too budget since LSV last UR Delver list was (I don't think LSV suffers from budget constraints):

[deck]LSV UR Delver[/deck]

ToW list outside the sideboard is MORE expensive. I think I prefer TOW's list mostly except I like the idea of running the 3rd Grim in the SB though Grim vs Izzet Staticaster is an interesting call.

That said I recommend watching BOTH of LSV's UR Delver playlist for some great insight for lines and Sb'ing.

[zemanjaski]

Yes and I am telling you that the mana base isn't good because I have played with it.

[Platypus]

3 Sulfur Falls does look awkward. If you want budget alternatives then Shivan Reefs are probably better, you really don't want to risk a tapped land turn one.

[zemanjaski]

1 Arid Mesa
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents

/ that was hard

[magicdownunder]

I haven't played it yet so I'll take your word for it - thoughts on Electrolyze and Sword of Fire and Ice?

[Platypus]

You think that single Arid Mesa is worth it?

[zemanjaski]

Electrolyze is great as a singleton (you want cheaper interaction to prevent turn 2 pod mostly, since you NEED to commit to the board early).

Sword is terrible.

3 mana don't affect board. 2 mana equip, opponent uses removal and time walks you.

[magicdownunder]

I really do like Electroyze, its a shame about the swords but yeah I can imagine the mana being really restricted with this list.

If anyone is interested here are the playlists:

UR Delver with LSV 1#

UR Delver with LSV 2#

The notable MUs he faced were Affinity, Pod and UWr Control.

[Valdarith]

I disagree with Zem regarding the mana base. I think ToW's configuration is fine except for the three Sulfur Falls. I only run one to prevent getting multiples in my opener. I've found 6-7 fetches to be the sweet spot. LSV ran 4 in his latest iteration but I don't think that's where you want to be with 2-3 Lavamancer in the 75.

I've cooled on equipment for the reasons Zem stated. I also prefer a 3/3 split on Remand and Mana Leak. I have also moved to a singleton Electrolyze.

[magicdownunder]

I disagree with Zem regarding the mana base. I think ToW's configuration is fine except for the three Sulfur Falls. I only run one to prevent getting multiples in my opener. I've found 6-7 fetches to be the sweet spot. LSV ran 4 in his latest iteration but I don't think that's where you want to be with 2-3 Lavamancer in the 75.

I've cooled on equipment for the reasons Zem stated. I also prefer a 3/3 split on Remand and Mana Leak. I have also moved to a singleton Electrolyze.

Have you been playing this online or just paper? If its online I wouldn't mind watching streams or something (I own most the cards but I'm missing 2x remands and 2x stream-vent + 1x Snappy thus more information before any investments would be great).

[Valdarith]

I only play it on paper. I suppose I could invest the money online as well. It'd be either that or RDW, but I think UR Delver has a bit more staying power if not being a little overplayed on MTGO currently. My only reservation investing in MTGO is that I hardly get to play. I play a lot more paper Magic than online (little time to play during the week vs strong incentive to get out of the house when able).

[Valdarith]

For reference, my current 75 (tuned for my meta, YMMV):

[deck]
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage

Spells (28)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Vapor Snag
2 Incinerate
3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
1 Electrolyze

Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Breeding Pool
4 Island
2 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Magma Spray
2 Dispel
2 Flashfreeze
2 Combust
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Hibernation
1 Counterflux
[/deck]

[zemanjaski]

"I disagree with Zem"

"But yeah, he is right, Sulfur Falls is bad"

[Kaitscralt]

saw a white dog chase it's tail
and a pair of hearts carved into a stone
i saw kindness and an angel
crying, 'take me back home, take me back home'

[Valdarith]

"I disagree with Zem"

"But yeah, he is right, Sulfur Falls is bad"

My comment was in reference to the number of fetchlands needed (which wasn't obvious by the way I wrote the response). I honestly don't see why he's running three Sulfur Falls. Really screws with tempo.

[rcwraspy]

experimenting with white in this, currently goldfishing and testing this:

[deck]
Creatures - 14
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Geist of Saint Traft

Instants - 18
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Remand
3 Path to Exile
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare

Sorceries - 9
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Pillar of Flame

Land - 19
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
1 Plains
[/deck]

Basically I swapped a leak, pillar, electrolyze, and pierce for 4x helix and swapped 3x vapor snag for path and swapped 1 pyromancer and 2 lavamancers for the geists. Then of course the lands. It's worse against Blood Moon and obviously I can't run it myself, but I like that it punches harder and having 8 3dmg burn spells as opposed to 4 has been great so far. Haven't really run it through the gauntlet yet, but I'm
really just experimenting with it. May go back to the stock UR lists if I don't like it.

[Mr. Metronome]

Has anyone here tested with Jeff Hooglands URx FaerieDelver deck? I've found that Spellstutter Sprite is a lot better than YP$ in a lot of the common matchups.

[Valdarith]

Nope.

[Platypus]

I've been thinking about getting some Spellstutters for testing purposes, but I haven't done it yet.

[Toddington]

Has anyone here tested with Jeff Hooglands URx FaerieDelver deck? I've found that Spellstutter Sprite is a lot better than YP$ in a lot of the common matchups.

Source/list?

[Khaospawn]

It's an older list, but it checks out. I was about to clear it.

[Mr. Metronome]

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/urx-spellstutter/

This is his tappedout page for it, he updates with changes. The description there gives links to primers/sideboarding guides.

Having played a fair amount of both the Fae and Pyro versions of Delver, I can safely say I'd rather be playing UR Faeries in every matchup but Jund.

Modern is such a fast format that I don't really feel comfortable taking time to play Serum Visions/Gitaxian Probe (sometimes that's done with 2 life, but that's sketchy in some matchups too), and would rather just have more gas spells.

Young Pyromancer also frequently feels awkward, like, say it's turn 2 vs a pod player, you have YP and Remand in hand, they played a mana dork that you didn't remove. You need to hold up Remand for their Pod, but now your YP is losing value because you cast
a spell from your hand.

The games where Young Pyromancer takes over feel awesome, which I'm sure skews a lot of peoples opinions of the card. You name me any deck in Modern and chances are I'd rather have a consistent counterspell (Spellstutter Sprite) over an occasionally powerful sorcery speed threat.

Mutavault with Sprite allows you to counter Bob/Goyf/etc, and Mutavault itself is an awesome threat once the dust settles.

The deck plays more lands than usual, because the lack of cantrips makes drawing lands more important. This also makes your hands more keepable, because a one lander with 2 Gitaxian Probes can go either way, while a 2-lander is always a 2-lander.

I feel like this deck is a lot less all in, and has way more lines of play, allowing you to leverage your play skill against your opponent a lot more.

Last point: There was one week where /r/Spikes had both of these posts: "How do I beat Affinity playing UR Delver?" and "How do I beat Burn playing UR Delver?"
the commonality between those two matchups is that YP is basically dead and Spellstutter Sprite is nearly always a 2 for 1 vs Affinity, and gains you 3 life while pressuring the Burn players life total.

[Khaospawn]

As a Burn player, I have never given a single flying fuck about a Spellstutter.

[Mr. Metronome]

As a Burn player, I have never given a single flying fuck about a Spellstutter.

And have you cared about YP$?

Spellstutter gains life, YP sits there while you Lava Spike us to death. The builds with SSS also play no Gitaxian Probe/Serum Visions, so they have less durdly cards and more action spells. 3 Spell Pierce 2 Spell Snare 4 Mana Leak 4 Remand (blegh against burn but better than some cards tbh) 4 SSS is a lot of interaction in the main, and I get to bring in Negate/Spellskite on top of that.

I've found the SSS version to be more consistent and have more favourable matchups against the format than the YP$ version.

I honestly think it's a very similar situation to YP$ vs Eidolon in Standard Boros Burn, where the Eidolon list has
gotten some results, which leads to more people playing it than the YP version, which leads to it getting more results, even if it's worse vs the format. Same idea here, except YP is ironically the bad one that everyone is playing while SSS is quietly better.

Don't take this lightly either, I fucking LOVE Young Pyromancer as a card. I WANT to be playing it, but SSS is more consistent. YP needs free counterspells to back it up in eternal formats, which makes it much better in Legacy than in Modern.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, the YP version is clunky as hell.

[Khaospawn]

Countering a Burn spell with SSS may "gain you some life" but you're way off the mark when you say you're "pressuring a Burn player's total."

As for the YP$ builds, those do have a worse time against Burn than the Fae build since they usually inflict more damage on themselves in the early game. At least, that's how it has traditionally been in my experience. YP$ himself, however, is something I try not to ignore because he does have the capability to get out of hand and actually pressure my life total. But a few things have to go wrong on my end for that to happen, though.

[Mr. Metronome]

The entire SSS deck, besides just SSS, is set up better vs burn. SSS doesn't pressure much, but 1 point of damage isn't irrelevant. It is less pressure than YP, obviously, but I'll take that in exchange for interacting with their plan.

[BiddingMaster]

Is this a deck you guys would suggest people to take into the modo grinder? I built it because it was the only deck that I had the ability to build and i like it so far but i feel like we just straight die to scapeshift and jund/junk. So far they have been able to just out resource me to death and clean up the late game with manlands.

[Valdarith]

The deck has been doing well on MODO as its popularity has increased. I would recommend it strongly. FWIW you shouldn't be having problems with Scapeshift. Jund can be tough but it's not an unwinnable matchup.

[zemanjaski]

I ran this to 4-0 last night on a whim; it's a conflux of normal UR Delver plus Hoogland's Faeries.

[deck]
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique

Non-Creature Spells
2 Burst Lightning
1 Electrolyze
1 Flame Slash
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
3 Spell Snare
2 Think Twice

Lands
1 Arid Mesa
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents

Sideboard
1 Combust
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Magma Spray
3 Negate
1 Shatterstorm
1 Spellskite
3 Spreading Seas
[/deck]

It plays much more of a draw go game with Delver operating as a cheap threat to deploy once you're in control of a game; but it also gives a way to pressure the formats combo decks too,
greatly increasing the value of your counters. Mutavault was awesome.

Too early to make any further assessments, but I'll be playing it again in the future.