[Primer] PyroRed

[Zooligan]

Probably. It's only useless against mono red. It might be too slow for mono blue.

If we had a meta that clearly called for Flames of the Firebrand, then Gauntlet would definitely be a solid addition.

Ha! Chandra's ultimate hitting FotF with Gauntlet out would be something, yeah?

[Calamity]

I love how multifaceted the Walter White name is (and the fact that I kind of made up part of the story lol. This is how myths are born!)

I like the idea of pyrewild shaman but I dunno if he's strong enough without Ashley. The interaction between bloodrush and first strike is pretty strong. Weapon Surge is a decent idea too.

[Elricity]

Probably. It's only useless against mono red. It might be too slow for mono blue.

If we had a meta that clearly called for Flames of the Firebrand, then Gauntlet would definitely be a solid addition.

Ha! Chandra's ultimate hitting FotF with Gauntlet out would be something, yeah?

Well, Chandra's ultimate with anything Gauntlet should flat out end the game =p.

Calamity, the problem with both spells is they don't recur [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] and they both can be pretty weak to removal. Our burn is all
guaranteed card advantage (usually we spend -0.5 to their 0 or 0.5 to 1) while bloodrush and creature tricks can easily swing the other way into being 2 of our cards for 1 removal.

[Zooligan]

Probably. It's only useless against mono red. It might be too slow for mono blue.

If we had a meta that clearly called for Flames of the Firebrand, then Gauntlet would definitely be a solid addition.

Ha! Chandra's ultimate hitting FotF with Gauntlet out would be something, yeah?

Hey, wait. Rules question: Could you split up the damage of FotF like 1 (now 3 with Gauntlet) to target player, another 1 (now 3 with Gauntlet) to same target player, etc? or would all damage being dealt to the same player have to be grouped activating
the Gauntlet +2 only once?

[Elricity]

Due to the wording of [card]Pyromancer's Gauntlet[/card], you assign the damage without factoring it in. When the spell deals damage, gauntlet causes the effect to do +2 to each permanent or player that was assigned damage. Chandra's +1 works the same way and assigns 1/1 but deals 3/3.

This does mean that in a tournament, it is absolutely legal to cast FotF and say "I assign 1 to you, 1 to your creature, and 1 to this creature". Then if they let it resolve, remind them that each has been dealt 3. Just don't lie and say "FotF will deal 1/1/1" because then you're not accurately describing the board state.

Also remember that due to the rule of how planeswalkers work, you cannot assign damage directly to them so you can't split damage between a player and their walkers or between multiple walkers. You assign a certain amount to the
player and then can redirect the entire damage dealt to a single planeswalker.

Edit: Maybe "divide" instead of "assign" is the proper way to say it. The ruling for casting spells uses similar language so best to stick to that I'd guess. For Chandra herself, you're best off just saying "target you, target your creature" if you want to trick them.

[windstrider]

As I've not fought against this deck yet, what are the biggest problems in the match? More insight can help to tailor solutions.

They literally puke out a wall of x/2 and x/3s. Scavenging ooze can get out of hand easily. It becomes very stand offish

Sounds like we'd need -2 Shock, -4 Cackler, -4 Satyr, +2 Chained, +4 Reckoner, +4 Mortars. Maybe even an Assemble the Legion, which could get out of hand on a stalled board state.

I'm really wanting that 4th Mortars in my sideboard now. I'm also considering -1 Plains, +1 Nykthos for the possibility of overloading
Mortars more easily or pumping the team more with Purphoros.

I'm just throwing this out based on Nykthos: Aurelia's Fury.

[Elricity]

A single Nykthos doesn't seem like enough to consider Aurelia's Fury. The g/r devotion deck that stuffs 4 Nykthos in is the only current deck that can reliably profit off Fury in my opinion. Uh, except they have that G/R burn spell. Nevermind.

[windstrider]

If nothing else, Fury is also direct damage, an additional falter effect, and Silence. I've often wanted an x spell for the damage potential, but Volcanic Geyser seems too narrow. I might try it out.

[chlb]

Could not get the RB variant to perform to my liking (if only the list it would perform as good as it looks...), so taking BTE Red to the Wednesday tournament. I am expecting lots of mono red and mono black, so Emily is definately better date than Ashley tomorrow.

[Elricity]

If nothing else, Fury is also direct damage, an additional falter effect, and Silence. I've often wanted an x spell for the damage potential, but Volcanic Geyser seems too narrow. I might try it out.

Well, it's definitely better than Geyser but at best it's, X=4? If it were full silence, it'd be amazing but what decks right now are you going to lock out by restricting them to non-creature sorcery speed spells? Mono black and esper are the only two I can think of and we already stomp on them.

I'm just not sure if it's worth an extra 2-3 mana cost to combine seismic stomp and FotF into one card. Maybe for mono blue?

[Platypus]

Any thoughts on Homing Lightning? Too narrow? Easier to remove MoW tokens with than Mortars, and might get 2-for-1 sometimes.

[amcfvieira]

Sounds like we'd need -2 Shock, -4 Cackler, -4 Satyr, +2 Chained, +4 Reckoner, +4 Mortars. Maybe even an Assemble the Legion, which could get out of hand on a stalled board state.

I'm really wanting that 4th Mortars in my sideboard now. I'm also considering -1 Plains, +1 Nykthos for the possibility of overloading Mortars more easily or pumping the team more with Purphoros.

I'm just throwing this out based on Nykthos: Aurelia's Fury.

In the draw I like to have the full play set of Shocks. The elf is really the mana dork that we can kill easily and it can prevent a turn 2 Domri.

Do anyone try [card]Aurelia's Fury[/card] in Pyro desks without Nykthos? I look to that card with such potential.

[Elricity]

I gave up on AF last season when it was weak even with 25 lands. I just don't see what will make it better with 23.

[amcfvieira]

I never try it, so I ask to previews experiences positives or negatives...

[windstrider]

I can foresee several possibilities for Fury. As an instant, cast it during their main phase to prevent them from casting Planeswalkers or cast it before their combat phase to tap down bothersome creatures and keep them from attacking you. So sorry. Were you counting on that alpha strike? Or just Fireball them directly for extra damage.

It's an available option I want to explore because of its seeming versatility.

[windstrider]

I gave up on AF last season when it was weak even with 25 lands. I just don't see what will make it better with 23.

Except that was last season with entirely different deck concepts. Stuff that would not work before now has a chance to see some play.

[Aodh]

I gave up on AF last season when it was weak even with 25 lands. I just don't see what will make it better with 23.

Except that was last season with entirely different deck concepts. Stuff that would not work before now has a chance to see some play.

He's not questioning its application, but rather its castability. If it wasn't effective with 25 lands, then it likely won't be effective with 23 lands,... unless (a) there are a shitload of X/1s in the format to get an n-for-1, or (b) there's a way to make up for the lack of lands (Nykthos comes to mind, though
probably not in a Pyro build).

[Helios]

Ok folks- Check the first post in the thread before asking what the current list is. I'm sick of seeing that question when it basically hasn't changed. I'll add a "Variants" heading to the primer to show a few different SB options, the Purphoros option, and the 3 Vault option. But seriously, it doesn't take but 30 seconds to look.

MDU: It's a tough matchup, but I've just never had an issue getting there. Maybe I've been getting lucky, but between Chained, Reckoner, Mortars (post-board), and killing all of their dorks, it's never been an issue for me. You just play control the whole time and kill everything; I'm 90% sure that killing mana dorks is always correct. So many players will keep dork-dependent hands that a lot of the time you get free wins with Shock. I find that the aggressive 1-drop hands aren't really good against them compared to hands with Magma Jet, Lightning Strike, etc. Sometimes you don'
t unleash a Cackler to mind-game them into "bad" plays. Always kill Domri, always kill Garruk.

tl;dr: Kill everything they play.

RE: Aurelia's Fury- I've played with it and was seriously underwhelmed. Always just wanted Seismic Stomp.

[amcfvieira]

What I like very much is that instant and can trigger YP. I Imagine it taping Multavault before blockers, and don't let him cast azorius charm that sometimes late our game a bit. Someone talks about shock our Cackler in response to the azorius, this can give another way. But is more mana intensive.

[Helios]

When I played with it, the mana cost wasn't efficient enough. Outside of Azorius Charm (which isn't really a big deal anyway?) your opponent can just respond with their spells. You have to pay 7 mana to kill anything that Mortars doesn't deal with already. It's so resoundingly meh.

[Link]

I don't think is the right shell for Aurelia's Fury. Now that Naya Control deck with sweet laet game and a bunch of mana and no good way to kill opposing walkers....

[Elricity]

That is true, last season mocked all over Jace AoT.

But yes, my entire issue is I'm trying to wrap my head around when we want to and are able to cast it. I don't think it's worth it if you use it for just one effect. Alpha strike, pseudo silence, removal, phoenix recursion. It has to be able to do two at once and have enough mana to cast it.

Hey Helios, where do I find the first post in this thread?
...
Don't hurt me!

[Helios]

Hey Helios, where do I find the first post in this thread?

Can't tell if sarcasm or if you actually want an answer.

(Just in case: viewtopic.php?p=119412#p119412)

[Elricity]

Sarcasm

[Helios]

I'm bad at internet

[windstrider]

We need a sarcasm font. Purple Comic Sans or something.

[Elricity]

Yeah, I tried hard to find emoticons that would tip it off but that was the best I could find.

[DocLawless]

I love comic sans.

[Purp]

Only I may use purple font!

Helios, I think we should add a section to the primer with current sideboard strategies that the majority agree on.

[windstrider]

I love comic sans.

No one should love Comic Sans. <<shudder>>

[Purp]

As a graphic designer, I was taught to hate it. But hey it does have its place.... in children's books.

[Helios]

I like normal fonts in normal colors that don't offend my eyes. Stahp it.

Will add the SB strategies section soon

[DocLawless]

Technically, the second post in the thread is a sideboard strategy section. Zman and LP's match-up guide has been particularly helpful for me.

[Helios]

Thanks for pointing that out, Doc.

[Khaospawn]

Re: Walter White deck name

I seconded the Walter White suggestion when windstrider made it immediately, but only because my nickname for the deck "Breaking Boros" didn't work.

Walter White is a much better name. Especially after you've seen the show and it blew your fucking mind.

[zemanjaski]

Updated 75:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instants
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands
18 Mountain
4 Mutavault

Sideboard
3 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
+ X other cards, see discussion
[/deck]

Let me start by saying that I LOVE the main 60 and wouldn't change a card. It's tracking at about ~77% across the field (that is, against 100 random decks, proportionate to the current online spread, I'd expect to win 77 of them). Interestingly, in 2-mana this would equate to +$85; in DEs this would be closer to +$400...so if you have the time to play 25 DEs a month, do so haha (3-1
in 2-mans is +$3; the same in a DE is +$15).

Quick matchup ratings
Mono B: Very favourable. You have to draw very badly to lose.
Mono U: Unfavourable but winnable. Sideboard needs more cards for this matchup.
Red aggro variants: Slightly favourable. I've dramatically cut down on the cards I have for this archetype, which hurts the matchup. However, the deck is seeing less play so this is acceptable.
Red midrange variants: Even. I have enough splash hate for other midrange decks to make this manageable.
Collossal Gruul: very bad.
Esper Control: best matchup.
UW Control: slightly worse than esper.
BW Midrange: easier than mono black. They don't have spectre and all your bad cards actually kill they early creatures. You're tailor made to beat them.
Dega Midrange: pretty much the same as mono b, worse mana. Just need to play around anger.
White Weenie Variants: joke matchup. YP$ and Chandra say hi.
Naya Control: I'm finding this to be favourable (4-1 at writing) but I'
m not sure if that's because their list is tuned to best Mono U and B.

So now the sideboard. I'm super happy with 10 cards, undecided on 5:
- 3 act of treason;
- 2 flames of the firebrand;
- 2 mizzium mortars; and
- 3 skullcrack.

Basically these are good numbers for most matchups and give me enough game against the various midrange and control decks. That leaves me 5 cards to work with for:
- red aggro; not sure how much of a player it will be moving forward but I've really cut down a lot of my cards for this matchup and I want a little more, maybe I can get some splash hate from my cards for...
- mono blue; this matchup needs a lot of work. Discussion below.
- collossal Gruul; bad matchup is bad. I'm not configured to beat it at all and that's ok, it's like 5% of the meta so ill just live with it. It's bad against Mono B and Esper, so hopefully they can beat it for me.

Random aside: I'd like 1-2 burning earth to get free-wins vs. esper, Naya, Dega.

So we need a few cards for Mono
U (hopefully good against Mono R as well). I've been using +2 Mortars and +2 Weird to try and play control, but that's not doing better than about 40%. So I think I want to be more aggressively positioned and try to play aggro-control (resolve 1-2 threats then kill everything they play). It's funny that if not for Master of the Waves the matchup would be really good.

I don't have the maindeck config to just straight run them over live devotion red can, so I need a different angle. I'm thinking Purphoros and/or Ratchet Bomb.

So maybe:
3 act of treason
2 burning earth
2 flames of the firebrand
2 mizzium mortars
1 purphoros, god of the forge
2 ratchet bomb
3 skullcrack

Discussion and input welcome.

[Tyrael]

Against what kind of WW have you tested this deck, zem? From my testing against most red aggro decks my WW deck with a splash of red for boros charm seemed to do quite fine actually...

[Link]

WW seriously folds to chandra like he said. they have to have an incredible curve (and be playing reckoner) vs. a bad burn light hand to even kinda have a chance in my experience.

boros charm should be a dead card against alsous also

[zemanjaski]

Against what kind of WW have you tested this deck, zem? From my testing against most red aggro decks my WW deck with a splash of red for boros charm seemed to do quite fine actually...

Against exactly the variation you're describing (12x 1 drop, 10x 2 drop, 4 Banisher Priest, 23 land, 3 Spear, 4 Charm, 4 Path), I just wreck it.

[Link]

@Z I think I like elektrikery over ratchet bomb for mow tokens.

also hammer over the god. you lose a devotion.war with them. hammer is still insane at making all topdecks live, whyd yo fall out of favor with it?

it canbe used in the red MU too imo. it always seems to go late and flood