[Idea] Burn

[zemanjaski]

You've given me a deck idea Windstrider, arrigato! ^_____^

[windstrider]

You're welcome, James.

I wasn't crazy about the 7 Shocks, but I really didn't know what else to put in there. They worked well enough for Pyromancer triggers and to recur the Phoenix though I'd probably go -1 Shock for +1 Volley. I had that originally, but the 3 slot felt too crowded.

I saw the RB version, and I like that a lot, especially for the Doom Blades and Return. That would also open up Dreadbore for when something just absolutely, positively has to die.

[MattT]

[quote="Valdarith » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:28 pm"]After playing this deck a bit I got the feeling it somewhat belonged here, though I'll probably create my own thread for it since it's kind of its own beast.

[deck]
Creatures (16)
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Guttersnipe
4 Hellrider

Spells (22)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Shock
4 Searing Spear
3 Wild Guess
3 Flames of the Firebrand

Lands (22)
4 Ghost Quarter
18 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Electrickery
2 Smelt
4 Skullcrack
1 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Burning Earth
3 Blasphemous Act
[/deck]

/.../

General Comments
1) You haven't lived until you've had two Young Pyromancers or two Guttersnipes on the board.
2) Pitching Chandra's Phoenix with Faithless Looting and Wild Guess feels so
good. Later in the game, Faithless Looting becomes [mana]R[/mana]: Draw two cards. Ridiculously powerful. I actually found I don't cast Phoenix very often even though I have the full playset.
3) I haven't had this much fun playing a deck since I was playing the Liquimetal Coating budget deck last year when I first got back into Magic.
4) My Ghost Quarters used to be Mutavault, but after running into so many decks on MTGO with ridiculously greedy mana bases, I decided to play Ghost Quarter instead. It can really ruin Jund's day, especially that new crappy Jedi Jund deck everyone's forcing to make their mirror matches more favorable. I heard Wasteland was good.
5) Running Faithless Looting AND Wild Guess in the same deck really cuts down your mulligan rate. There honestly aren't many hands I'll ship when I have one or both of these in my starting hand. I REALLY like that feeling.[/quote:
yk2lrfar]
I realize I´m late to the party, but am curious about Blood Scrivener and the various red filter cards. Your Point 5 here is just what I experienced last summer before the curse-that´s-called-Thragtusk showed and kicked my Burn decks behind. At that point it had played fine, but I saw little point in perservering with it.

My basic notion is that burn is much about emptying the hand while counting to 20. Next is that dead cards should be considered useless a'la Reds thinking. "Gimme this NOW, I don´t want THAT." Enter Scrivener who says "Nice recycling. Here´s a treat for you laddie." like some environmentalist from beyond the pale.

He just feels like made for this archetype, but I have only tried various dry runs and wanted to hear you guys thoughts.

Anyone?

[windstrider]

The problem I have with Scrivener is that it doesn't seem to do enough on its own. If it comes down early, then you'll still have cards in hand and not be able to take advantage of its ability. It's a 2/1 in a deck that wants extra value from each one of its creatures while you're doing other things.

I'm trying a black splash, mainly for Dreadbore, Doom Blade, Duress, and Rakdos's Return.

[deck]
Creatures:16
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hellrider

Spells:21
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Shock
2 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Rakdos's Return
4 Searing Spear
3 Brimstone Volley
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands:23
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
12 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Sideboard:15
1 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Duress
1 Doom Blade
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
[/deck]

I have Zealot main for early pressure. The points of damage she provides can make a big
difference, and she can stall a lot of things on her own.

I'm not entirely happy with the mix of spells yet, and the sideboard is a work in progress. In the few games I got to play with the deck, Duress was very good, enabling me to get value out of Pyromancer while wrecking hands. I'm not sure if I want Reckoner or another creature or another set of spells.

I can handle creature-based decks fairly easily with all the removal, but I still struggle vs. control decks.

[Valdarith]

I feel like if you're in black you should be running Deathrite Shaman. Then again, you and I have two completely different philosophies going on anyway.

It seems like you're actually going for a 20/20/20 build which is what I would also like to pursue. Yours is really grindy though so I can imagine you having some trouble with control.

I posted a deck similar to this in the clan thread, but I'm porting it to here for more discussion.

[deck]
Creatures (24)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (16)
3 Faithless Looting
3 Pillar of Flame
4 Shock
4 Searing Spear
2 Brimstone Volley

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
18 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Pillar of Flame
3 Frostburn Weird
4 Skullcrack
3 Flames of the Firebrand
3 Burning Earth
1 Mutavault
[/deck]

Denizen over Noble because he is strictly better in almost
every scenario. He offers some interesting scenarios with a Pyromancer on the board.

Considering Chandra, Pyromaster over Burning Earth because the meta is starting to play around it. UWR is about the only deck that really has problems with it, but Chandra would be almost as tough to beat. Jund expects it and sides in Golgari Charm.

[RDW]

How about this build?

[deck]Creatures
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Rakdos Shredfreak
4 Spike Jester
2 Lifebane Zombie

Spells
4 Bump in the Night
4 Searing Spear
4 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Firebrand

Enchantments
3 Burning Earth

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Mountain
9 Swamp

Sideboard
2 Appetite for Brains
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Duress
2 Crippling Blight
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Doom Blade
1 Mark of Mutiny[/deck]

[Valdarith]

How about this build?

[deck]Creatures
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Rakdos Shredfreak
4 Spike Jester
2 Lifebane Zombie

Spells
4 Bump in the Night
4 Searing Spear
4 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Firebrand

Enchantments
3 Burning Earth

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Mountain
9 Swamp

Sideboard
2 Appetite for Brains
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Duress
2 Crippling Blight
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Doom Blade
1 Mark of Mutiny[/deck]

Looks like a really bad B/R zombie deck.

[RDW]

Don't knock it until you've tried it! Not sure if you've read the Rakdos Blitz thread, but my buddy piloted this deck to 2-3 (first night ever playing), 3-0-2, and 2-0 drop finishes. I think there's something here to pursue... Maybe it's not the most refined--I just threw it together for him, but it has some similar themes from the decks above. We have 22 aggressive creatures that usually deal 2-9 damage each, then 14 burn spells that do three damage each.

[zemanjaski]

I kinda like it. Would change some of the cards, but the concept is cool I think.

[RDW]

How would you refine it, James? Really wanna' mess with it.

[MattT]

The problem I have with Scrivener is that it doesn't seem to do enough on its own. If it comes down early, then you'll still have cards in hand and not be able to take advantage of its ability. It's a 2/1 in a deck that wants extra value from each one of its creatures while you're doing other things.

Well, he shouldn´t come down early. He´s made for 4+ mana when the hand is empty or almost. I´m thinking Scrivener and then Guess/Looting for additional value.

E.g.

[deck]Creatures (13)
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Blood Scrivener
4 Vexing Devil
3 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (27)
3 Faithless Looting
4 Shock
4 Bump in the Night
3 Thunderous Wrath
4 Searing Spear
4 Skullcrack
3 Wild Guess
2 Flames of the Firebrand

Lands (20)
4 Blood Crypt
n4 Dragonskull Summit
10 Mountain
2 Swamp[/deck]
I realize VD and TW are horrible in most decks, but with the looting they work and did in my pre-Thrag Burn deck. I somehow feel that Magic players are TO obsessed with reducing variance and improve consistency to a level of fear of even trying. Some guy said "It´s an auto mulligan to see a TD in the starting hand.", commenting on said Burn deck, to which I replied "No, then it´s looting fodder and looting IMPROVES consistency. I get something for losing something else." He just kept jabbering the same spiel like his magic parents had told him. Quite tiresome, but it illustrated the notion. I think Windstrider noticed just this consistency improvment when trying the other deck out. I believe that the losses and gains are Worth the cards in this case.

N.B. if it´s true that Magma Jet shows in Theros we´ll have a huge improvement in consistency and this will be moot Let´s hope!

[windstrider]

Magma Jet would be a very nice addition to the deck. I'm somewhat concerned, though, about getting a 3 power burn spell for 1R now. Incinerate, perhaps?

[Valdarith]

I don't think it will be Incinerate since they want regeneration to be relevant. Probably a Searing Spear copy.

[Platypus]

Volcanic Hammer would fit theme-wise. See info on Purphoros at http://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/A ... ature/261c

[windstrider]

I doubt it would be instant speed like Searing Spear. That would give three instant speed burn spells: Shock, Magma Jet, and Spear variant. Volcanic Hammer seems far more likely.

[Valdarith]

Volcanic Hammer was the name I was looking for, but I didn't realize it was sorcery speed. It makes the most sense.