[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[LP, of the Fires]

Just remember that when you guys do get in an inevitable fight she, by virtue of being a woman is liable to say fucked up things. If/when this happens, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Take it in stride, let her know how fucked up what she said is and that'll be good enough "revenge" trust me. Also, if you guys do have a fight when she comes back, that's not a bad thing because at least you'll be talking.

Other than that, good luck.

[toddulent]

All this Modern talk depresses me. NO ONE at my locals cares about Modern. Every Thursday they have maybe two people show up.

[Alex]

Just remember that when you guys do get in an inevitable fight she, by virtue of being a woman is liable to say fucked up things. If/when this happens, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Take it in stride, let her know how fucked up what she said is and that'll be good enough "revenge" trust me. Also, if you guys do have a fight when she comes back, that's not a bad thing because at least you'll be talking.

Other than that, good luck.

This is true, no matter how right or wrong you are, it's always best to remember that you're just wrong regardless. Don't get angry (easier said than done, take it from a 4-time ginger veteran) and just pretend like you're really listening and taking in everything she says.

This will piss her off
more, but at the end of the day she'll also likely realize how much of a giant tool she's being by contrast. If she's screaming and yelling and you're just taking it, chances are eventually once the dust clears she'll be like "Wow what the fuck was I doing."

Worked every time with all of mine, and they were all redheads.

[hamfactorial]

My lady left for very similar reasons. It's particularly maddening that once they start sensing trouble in the relationship, they'll endlessly analyze and obsess over it privately and with friends, but leave you out instead of asking for help. Sweet strategy, bro.

[LP, of the Fires]

Just remember that when you guys do get in an inevitable fight she, by virtue of being a woman is liable to say fucked up things. If/when this happens, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Take it in stride, let her know how fucked up what she said is and that'll be good enough "revenge" trust me. Also, if you guys do have a fight when she comes back, that's not a bad thing because at least you'll be talking.

Other than that, good luck.

This is true, no matter how right or wrong you are, it's always best to remember that you're just wrong regardless. Don't get angry (easier said
than done, take it from a 4-time ginger veteran) and just pretend like you're really listening and taking in everything she says.

This will piss her off more, but at the end of the day she'll also likely realize how much of a giant tool she's being by contrast. If she's screaming and yelling and you're just taking it, chances are eventually once the dust clears she'll be like "Wow what the fuck was I doing."

Worked every time with all of mine, and they were all redheads.

Exactly. As crazy as women are, they oddly know there crazy and if you give them the chance to here themselves they usually get. Granted, make sure you've analyzed your fault in all of this. One of the biggest ways a man earns respect is by taking responsibility for all of his flaws and owning up to them and while you should probably be saying she's right anyways(because that's how the game is played), it goes a long way when you're genuine about ways you can improve
yourself so that the two of you can make a more perfect whole.

You guys are married after so winning fights isn't really important so much as resolving problems so that you're fighting over different stuff in the future instead of the same old shit.

Growth and all that.

[Alex]

Plus getting angry doesn't really accomplish anything anyway, so it's pretty pointless.

[hamfactorial]

A thought experiment for you: what expectations does she have of you as a man and as a husband? Did she provide any hint that you weren't meeting those expectations? What are your expectations of her as a woman and as a wife? Did you provide her any hint that she wasn't meeting them?

[Kazekirimaru]

A thought experiment for you: what expectations does she have of you as a man and as a husband? Did she provide any hint that you weren't meeting those expectations? What are your expectations of her as a woman and as a wife? Did you provide her any hint that she wasn't meeting them?

I'll ponder this while I fight off the urge to viciously fuck someone.

[redthirst]

Nothing gets rid of the urge to fuck someone like fucking someone.

[lorddax]

See my advice in this situation is different and odd. I go talk to my girlfriend if the wife is driving me nuts or she'll go hang out with her other husband if she needs to cool down in order to not kill me and claim my life insurance, and then we'll come back and have a long talk that usually ends up with needing to buy new toys at her shop the next day.

Do have to chime in on what Ham said. Knowing those expectations are key to a healthy relationship, as well as looking at your own expectations of her. If they haven't been discussed, that could definitely lead to some of the "where the fuck did this come from?ness". Communication is the number one thing in a relationship, and it should be easier when it doesn't have to be a sprawling poly web all trying to get words in ;P

[redthirst]

See my advice in this situation is different and odd. I go talk to my girlfriend if the wife is driving me nuts or she'll go hang out with her other husband if she needs to cool down in order to not kill me and claim my life insurance, and then we'll come back and have a long talk that usually ends up with needing to buy new toys at her shop the next day.

[Kazekirimaru]

Nothing gets rid of the urge to fuck someone like fucking someone.

This is a good point.

[Alex]

See my advice in this situation is different and odd. I go talk to my girlfriend if the wife is driving me nuts or she'll go hang out with her other husband if she needs to cool down in order to not kill me and claim my life insurance, and then we'll come back and have a long talk that usually ends up with needing to buy new toys at her shop the next day.

Do have to chime in on what Ham said. Knowing those expectations are key to a healthy relationship, as well as looking at your own expectations of her. If they haven't been discussed, that could definitely lead to some of the "where the fuck did this come from?ness". Communication is the number one thing in a relationship, and it should be easier when it doesn't have to be a sprawling poly web all trying to
get words in ;P

Way to be a buzzkill.

[Self Medicated]

To echo others, communication is essential. If you guys don't talk, your relationship won't last. I've learned some valuable things in my 14 years of marriage. If she is feeling like you described, she probably felt that it wouldn't do any good in telling you. This probably built up until she couldn't hold it in anymore. At that point, hold on to your fucking hat, 'cause you going for a ride. The best thing to do in these situations is to take a dive. Apologize profusely, even if you don't understand why. Tell her things like, "I'm sorry for treating you like that. I honestly didn't know I was doing it. I can see how frustrating that would be for you." I cannot emphasize enough how important that last statement is. You need to show empathy. That you can identify with her. If there is one thing women are looking for, it is someone that actually
listens and agrees with them.

Just remember, marriage is about compromise. You both change over time to accommodate the other. This is all a learning process and you'll make it through. I've had fights with my wife where she has actually taken off her ring and given it back to me. It's fucked up, but that's how they play the game. Give her some time and she'll come around. Just be prepared to grovel.

[Kazekirimaru]

Ah, yes. I already did the apology bit. But she basically said she wasn't going to forgive.

[Self Medicated]

What was so bad that she isn't willing to forgive you?

[LP, of the Fires]

Well....damn.

[Alex]

Ah, yes. I already did the apology bit. But she basically said she wasn't going to forgive.

Did you like fingerbang her sister at the wedding during the reception party or something? Nothing is really unforgiveable for the most part. Generally that just means "I'm really pissed right now and will likely hold this against you well into the foreseeable future." My ex wife STILL does this to me and we haven't been married for like three years now.

[Khaospawn]

Uh, it was just kinda of a "this was a long time coming" sort of thing. Apparently she's been unhappy for a while about this that and the other thing and I guess I don't treat her as she would like to be. Not sure why she didn't tell me until now and just went straight to leaving, though. I'm still kind of confused.

Looking at the aftermath of last night, I just realized I put a huge crack in our solid oak front door, which would be kind of cool if I wasn't so down.

Thanks for all your support, by the way, guys.

Women have a tendency to avoid using linear logic the way men do. Whereas men see thought and logic as a straight line with a point A and a point B, women will start with point A and somehow end up at point E.

nAlso, human women are the only species on this planet that will go to bed knowing what they want and perfectly content with what they have. And then they just wake up the next morning completely fed up with their life and clueless as fuck to what it is they really want. Men are just caught in the middle of these hormone driven mood swings and bouts of indecision.

I'm not trying to bash women. My point is, it's virtually impossible to decipher what is going through a woman's head. As men, we can attempt to understand. We can pretend we know what's going on, but we'll never truly know. Hell, not even women know what's going on in their brain.

Kaze, all of this could be your fault. Or it's entirely possibly she's completely unhappy with various aspects of her world and you're just the scapegoat until she figures out how to fix her problems. I'm not saying any of this to hurt your feelings or pour salt in your wounds. This is just my fucked up way trying to help. I really am.

I know next to
nothing about marriage. Hell, my relationship officially self-destructed in a passive-aggressive explosion mixed with a bit of crazy. And weirdly enough, it was all for the best. Kat is still a good friend and we still talk to each other a lot....and do other some activities as well . But what put things into perspective for me was some time away to deal with myself and my anger and to find whatever it is/was that my life is lacking that's keeping me from being happy. The problem was, for a long time, my bad habit of clamming up and wanting to figure things out on my own was sabotaging not just my relationship, but my life as well. I wasn't communicating. At least not in the right way. How does marriage factor into this? Well, a cornerstone of a healthy marriage is supposed to be about communicating. It would seem to me that your wife opted to not communicate effectively, which caused a negative,
downward spiral that resulted in this fine mess. And a cracked door.

But then again, I know next to nothing about marriage. Or psychology for that matter. Or even Magic. I don't even know why anybody listens to me about Magic...

I just realized that writing this whole mess isn't going to solve your problems, Kaze. That's between you and your wife. But what I can do is be your clansbro and your friend and offer you my support. Whatever you need, man, just let me know.

[Alex]

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Come fourth and explain your gender. Or at least try, since we know you can't.

[Alex]

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Well played, she-devil.

[Nuwen]

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Come fourth and explain your gender. Or at least try, since we know you can't.

Bitches be crazy, son.

[Alex]

This is an acceptable, if not anticipated response.

[redthirst]

A woman's brain is like a box of cats.

And if anything even nudges that box, there will be hell to pay.

And every time you do something wrong, you shake the box.

And every time you do something right, but in the wrong way or for the wrong reason, you shake the box.

And every time you do something exactly the way she thinks she wants you to do it, but it turns out that it wasn't actually the way she wanted you to do it, you shake the box.

And sometimes you do everything right, but since she doesn't want you to be gentle or understanding or whatever at that specific moment, you shake the box.

And sometimes everthing happens exactly like it should - all the pieces fall into place perfectly and you somehow did everthing exactly like she wanted it done - not how she said she wanted it, or told her friends she wanted it, or even thought she wanted it - but how she actually wanted it and you finally, for once, don't
shake the box.

...but then that mother fucker shakes itself anyway.

[Khaospawn]

Life is like a box of felines...

[rcwraspy]

rofl @ Alex

Kaze, I just want to echo what everybody else has said - we're all here for you, man.

As for advice, there isn't much I can offer. I don't know the details of the argument, your relationship as a whole, the way either of you communicate, etc. But I do feel that a lot of people have been hitting on some good points re: communication.

She's clearly upset right now. Let her be. The last thing any woman in my life has ever wanted was for me to try to calm them down. She likely WANTS to be angry right now, so give her the opportunity. The anger will pass.

And once it does, then comes the time to truly communicate. Hit on the topics others have covered - try to find out what she's expecting of you, how you may have fallen short, what, if anything, you feel you should work on, etc., and talk all that stuff through.

I don't know if that will fix things, temporarily or permanently, but I do
know that as time passes, so will her anger, and that there will most likely be opportunities for discussion. Make the most of those opportunities. Until then, let her vent/stew/be angry, but let her know you're there when she's ready.

[Nuwen]

I've spent time dating women too. If you chase after lookers, you have to understand that Western society conditions petty girls from birth. What examples of "woman" have you witnessed today via media? Her personality will be imbued with all the accompanying baggage. Seek instead someone who examines herself, treats people well, and is emotionally intuitive?

You also have to accept that all humans are products of their environments, and will be flawed in some way or another. My definition of love is something like "complementary imperfection." You have to discard unreasonable expectations for each other (and yourself). A lot of people never get to this point. If her flaws make you want to turn and run, you should probably flee and never look back.

[windstrider]

Kaze — First, that sucks. Been there, done that, and recently. The advice I give is based on my own experiences. If she says she needs space, then she needs space. Give it to her. It may be her way of dealing with whatever has built up between the two of you. My wife does the same thing. I've learned that when she needs space, then I need to give it to her or become the next best thing to ground zero.

As guys, we want to resolve the situation immediately. In these instances, that is exactly the wrong thing to do. She didn't accept your apology because she couldn't. There were too many other emotions going through her. Guys get mad, we blow up at something, scream and yell a lot, and we're ok. Imagine the last time that happened to you. What would you have done if someone told you to calm down? You got mad at them.

A couple of really important questions for you: how often do you and your wife talk? And how open and
honest are you with each other? The first one needs to happen more, so these kinds of things don't happen. And the second needs to happen all the time. If she's upset at something, then she needs to tell you how she feels. If you're upset at her, then you need to tell her how you feel. If she did not tell you how she felt, then how the hell were you supposed to fix it? You're not a mind reader. Both of you need to realize that.

Marriage is tough. It's filled with daily little irritations. Talking lets the pressure off before things explode.

[Nuwen]

Marriage is tough. It's filled with daily little irritations. Talking lets the pressure off before things explode.

Sing it, man. A lot of relationship maintenance is quieting your lizard brain and TALKING about the stuff in your headmeatspace. We are all irrational bags of electrochemical impulses out of place with our current mode of living.

For example, lorddax mentioned that he goes to other partners when one is batty. Poly is an awesome way to stymie relationship stressors.

Humans are predisposed to tribal behavior. It's very common for humans to crave multiple qualities that CAN'T all be found in another single creature. We're biologically predisposed to cooperating in groups because compensating for idiosyncratic flaws with collective
viability is easier to achieve via evolution than fully viable individuals.

Introversion is another factor too! As an introvert, I feel most comfortable limiting my day-to-day interaction with new/multiple people. This puts a lot of pressure on my small circle of friends (and ESPECIALLY significant other) to fulfill a very wide latitude of social needs. Two introverts in a relationship together can quickly make unreasonable expectations about each other, especially if they both retreat to their own mindspace for comfort. Resentment comes next, and you end up in a place where the original problems are impossible to identify.

[Khaospawn]

True dat. +1 Nuwen

[Kaitscralt]

that girl found a new dick

[Jack]

True dat. +1 Nuwen

Ditto

[Alex]

that girl found a new dick

Implying that his wife had a dick. I see what you did there.

[hamfactorial]

Implying implications

[Self Medicated]

Implying implications

Infraction issued for implicating said implying implications.

[hamfactorial]

Implications are perfectly fine when implied safely.

[Kaitscralt]

who you callin an imp

[Self Medicated]

Implications are perfectly fine when implied safely.

Implying that it's possible to implicate safely is an implication of your implied...

Wait, I got confused. What were we talking about again?

[Alex]

Implications are perfectly fine when implied safely.

This tone is not acceptable on this website. Infraction issued. -Galspanic

[Khaospawn]

Quick, somebody use the implication defense!