The Boondocks Mafia (Town Win)

[Nuwen]

. Naked votes are not helpful to activity or reasoning and therefore not helpful to the town. Why are you voting for GR?

Incorrect. "Reasons" are only necessary when you need to convince other town to follow along. If you can accomplish the same end without engaging the enemy, isn't that so much better? It is. There's a cute joke on Mafiascum (made by another magic player, Chamber @ MTGS): "cases are scummy." Cases provide opportunity for argument, like G_R said. He is upset that he does not have such an opportunity.

You can get away with this playstyle if a significant-enough block of town read the same motiviations and cooperate with each other. For example, I'm voting with one of my strong town
reads. If nothing else happens in a page or two, I'll probably appeal to my other town reads via a full case. Cases are tools in a game, not the goal of the game itself. If you play enough mafia you end up taking shortcuts to the same end very often.

The Turing machine is a joke about my VCA analysis. I've won mafia games where the only posts I've read in-depth are mod ISO.

I sense a lot of stylistic differences hereabouts. I'll respect your playstyles and answer questions when asked, but you have the be asking the right questions first.

[Nuwen]

VCA = Vote Count Analysis BTW

Forgot to mention something worth mentioning:

Three players still have yet to post. I want to meet all of my neighbors before the day ends!

Why are you so concerned about this?

This page 1 wagon is high-quality.

unvote, vote: Kazekirimaru.

Why is it high-quality?

[/
quote]

Forcing players to immediately commit/respond to reads in the early game can be very telling.

For example, it's a scum/oversight ping that Stardust enters the game and entirely misses why Iso and Kaze aren't willing to lynch each other. He's also coming out of the gate with VERY strong scum reads on Iso/Kaze, but his verbage is pretty inquisitive. He wants answers to questions after already deciding the alignment of these two: so what's his motivation to continue prodding these slots? Double-plus-plus confirmation of what he already thinks? Generating case material/content in a way that doesn't upset the flow of the game?

Plus, he's likes my earlier posts on the topic of Iso/Kaze but my methods on the subject of G_R give him a reason to post. He be revvin' up dat chainsaw maybe.

[Stardust]

Interesting. You bring up some points worth considering as far as casing goes. I'll have to keep that in mind for the future. I've already been deciding when and where it's worthwhile spilling my guts, but never extended that to the case itself. I will say that I think that's dangerous in a game that's very likely going to be in danger of stagnating at some point. Happy to hear you'll case him eventually, though.

For example, it's a scum/oversight ping that Stardust enters the game and entirely misses why Iso and Kaze aren't willing to lynch each other.

What did I miss? You have strong town reads on both these players? Or, rather, you think Iso and Kaze have town reads on each other? Why?

He's also coming out of the gate with VERY strong scum reads on Iso/Kaze, but his verbage is pretty inquisitive. He wants answers to questions after already deciding the alignment of these two: so what's his motivation to continue prodding these slots? Double-plus-plus confirmation of what he already thinks? Generating case material/content in a way that doesn't upset the flow of the game?

I'll respond to this later.

Plus, he's likes my earlier posts on the topic of Iso/Kaze but my methods on the subject of G_R give him a reason to post. He be revvin' up dat chainsaw maybe.

Chainsaw... "Cutting down a player to defend another". You think I'm attacking you thereby defending
GR? Your current method doesn't have any bearing on GR being scum - I just didn't find your naked vote very convincing.

[( G_R )]

I'm upset? Tell me more...

[Stardust]

GR, could you please answer the question I posed you in my big post? It's at the very beginning (though you should read the whole thing).

[( G_R )]

I've read a bit about the subject. Scum, and more specifically noob scum, will try to justify a RSV vote with some "truly random" means, in order to avoid giving away anything about their alignment. It is a serious scum tell and like someone else has pointed out (in this game and another I was in), many a scum have been caught that way.

[imopen2]

I'm really glad this game is moving as slowly as it is because, as it is, I'm going to have to respond to the entire game at this point. There's a lot of stuff I have responses to and couldn't make yet.

I know what I'll be doing tomorrow!!

Posting about how you didn't get to responding to anything yet? [/quote:
1bpheevz]
What was the point of this post?

Mostly I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to be snarky, but part of me also hoped that my shot at you would spur you to keep your word and actually catch-up. I am really glad you did, too, because I agree with much of what you've said so far.

As for the name-claim: I'm perfectly fine with this since I've basically already done it. I'm not sure if we will catch any scum from it but I don't agree that it will hurt us either..

[rezombad]

Why the question mark?

Because I don't know what will be accomplished by claiming names.

[Iso]

Nice confirmation bias, Manders. It's okay if you don't like me, though. <3

You'll see.

Explain yourself.

no

@Stardust: Since breaking down quotes here is harder, I'll put what you say in quotations and respond to it by each line.

"I really dislike this post from Iso. Completely ignores Kazikame's wagon (arguably the biggest thing that's happened in the game to this point) and deflects attention back to rezombad. Token question to Kamikaze will look real bad if K flips scum."

I addressed the Kaze wagon - I stated I didn't understand it and nobody
cared to clarify it for me. Ergo, it's full of hot air.

"Approximate hit percentage of this tactic? I know at least one game you were in where this failed."

Remind me of the time it didn't work?

I'd say at least 75%. I can't remember specifically all the times I've seen this catch scum but it's a valid catch more often than not and I do remember Manders catching Yanni this way in Stick It! Mafia which was what originally made me aware of the scummy nature of such an action.

"Is this a policy lynch, Iso? Do you actually believe scum Tom Servo would be more likely to not play the game?"

It's half-I think he's going to be useless, half-I think he's scum and going to impede the scumhunting process by obfuscating interactions by not doing anything.

"Huh, this reads like you're scared. Not sure I've seen this side of you, Iso."

Iso fears nothing. Ask Manders.

"
Point to his towniness, please. Alternatively, point to the scum orchestrators of his wagon."

I explained my take on Kaze's mindset about his wagon. As for scum pushing the wagon, sure, at some point, but not right now.

"Breadcrumbing already, Iso? A bit early for that, no?"

It's never too early for baking, my friend.

-

@Nuwen: I disagree with your assessment that it's too early to draw connections between players - I thrive in RVS, typically, though I missed that this time around - but that is theory talk that is neither here nor there.

Care to explain your G_R vote, as well as your take on Fate's G_R vote? (Strikethrough because other people have already asked.)

Cool. Now everyone
can just post "Vote whomever, easy one" and give no context, and we get a lynch with nothing to look at except the dead body. Sounds useful.

Why are you imploding?

Why didn't you make a stance like this when Kaze's wagon was building in a similar manner?

[Iso]

Oh gdi I missed a whole page. sec

[Iso]

. Naked votes are not helpful to activity or reasoning and therefore not helpful to the town. Why are you voting for GR?

Incorrect. "Reasons" are only necessary when you need to convince other town to follow along. If you can accomplish the same end without engaging the enemy, isn't that so much better? It is. There's a cute joke on Mafiascum (made by another magic player, Chamber @ MTGS): "cases are scummy." Cases provide opportunity for argument, like G_R said. He is upset that he does not have such an opportunity.

You can get away with this playstyle if a significant-
enough block of town read the same motiviations and cooperate with each other. For example, I'm voting with one of my strong town reads. If nothing else happens in a page or two, I'll probably appeal to my other town reads via a full case. Cases are tools in a game, not the goal of the game itself. If you play enough mafia you end up taking shortcuts to the same end very often.

The Turing machine is a joke about my VCA analysis. I've won mafia games where the only posts I've read in-depth are mod ISO.

I sense a lot of stylistic differences hereabouts. I'll respect your playstyles and answer questions when asked, but you have the be asking the right questions first.

Not to nitpick, but this is one thing I hate about MafiaScum's meta. I expect you to eventually provide reason for your G_R vote, primarily because if G_R is bandwagoned for the sake of bandwagoning, then we learn nothing about the motivations of the people voting for him. Scum votes are
easier to pick up on when you make them answer for them. Otherwise, you can just say, "oh well I was just trusting X's read" or "oh well I thought he was scum for -insert vague reason of choice-" and the scum get off the hook.

Regarding Stardust's stances, you'll find it's a common occurrence in MTGS meta to base your read on gut and then look for more info to either dissolve that read or solidify it. (You'll often find players tunneled on others for most of the game for this reason.) I don't think it makes him scummy - rather, I like Stardust's lines of inquiry. I think they come from a town mindset.

I've read a bit about the subject. Scum, and more specifically noob scum, will try to justify a RSV vote with some "truly random" means, in order to avoid giving away anything about their alignment. It is a
serious scum tell and like someone else has pointed out (in this game and another I was in), many a scum have been caught that way.

[ganderin_dan]

What, you think ponies grow on trees?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sOHU4rAnuk

Votecount #3:

TomServo (2) - Col. Khaddafi, Iso
DroppinSuga (2) - rezombad, Kazekirimaru
Kazekirimaru (4) - Manders, DroppinSuga, imopen2, GR
Iso (2) - Spambolic, TomServo
GR (2) - Fate, Nuwen

With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch!

[( G_R )]

@Iso: I'm pointing it out because that is the second time Fate does that. And suddenly the vote from the guy explain himself is more scummy than the obscure ones. I want to hear why. I don't think that counts as imploring.

[Col. Khaddafi]

After reading Nuwen's analysis I'm comfortable with voting Kaze

Unvote

Vote Kazekikimaru

Also Nuwen The town's worst enemy is a highlow signal:noise ratio (when the signal gets drowned in the noise). You were having my nerd self cringing for your last few posts

[( G_R )]

*Imploding. Damn phone.

[Stardust]

Man, I hear that Kazikame guy likes to post. He should do that.

I've read a bit about the subject. Scum, and more specifically noob scum, will try to justify a RSV vote with some "truly random" means, in order to avoid giving away anything about their alignment. It is a serious scum tell and like someone else has pointed out (in this game and another I was in), many a scum have been caught that way.

That's not exactly the answer I was looking for, but I'm going to drop it anyway since I decided now that the question I meant to ask is useless too.

"I really dislike this post
from Iso. Completely ignores Kazikame's wagon (arguably the biggest thing that's happened in the game to this point) and deflects attention back to rezombad. Token question to Kamikaze will look real bad if K flips scum."

I addressed the Kaze wagon - I stated I didn't understand it and nobody cared to clarify it for me. Ergo, it's full of hot air.

Why didn't you mention it in your first post of the game?

"Approximate hit percentage of this tactic? I know at least one game you were in where this failed."

Remind me of the time it didn't work?

I'd say at least 75%. I can't remember specifically all the times I've seen this catch scum but it's a valid catch more often than not and I do remember Manders catching Yanni this way in Stick It! Mafia which was what originally made me aware of the scummy nature of
such an action.

Teia as Doc in MM6.

So, at 75%, would you say it's worthwhile lynching people who do this regardless of other evidence? Aside from that, he's got noob town written all over him. Considering I've seen tactics like this fail twice and never work, I'm inclined to believe the other evidence in this case.

"Huh, this reads like you're scared. Not sure I've seen this side of you, Iso."

Iso fears nothing. Ask Manders.

Umm, okay.

MANDERS! What the hell is Iso talking about?

(I still think you're scared)

"Point to his
towniness, please. Alternatively, point to the scum orchestrators of his wagon."

I explained my take on Kaze's mindset about his wagon. As for scum pushing the wagon, sure, at some point, but not right now.

Yes, you did say you hadn't seen anything anti-town, then went on to defend his frustration. Do you believe Kaze is town?

What about this post specifically. You believe Kaze when he says it was meant to be a trap?

"Breadcrumbing already, Iso? A bit early for that, no?"

It's never too early for baking, my friend.

Disagree. That was completely unnecessary. Feels more like you're working on
solidifying yourself as a power role than working towards a townie goal here.

I suppose I should explain for everyone else that Iso as scum has never claimed vanilla. If he claims vanilla, he's town. As scum, he needs to set himself up to claim a power role. That's what I think he's doing here since there is no town motivation for coming out otherwise.

[Manders]

Nice confirmation bias, Manders. It's okay if you don't like me, though. <3

It has nothing to do with whether I like you and everything to do with whether I like how you're playing the game. I think you're playing as scum.

And, I am the queen of confirmation bias. I once got Cyan lynched as Town because I saw something I couldn't explain to come from a Town-mindset. (Anyone who's ever tried to get Cyan lynched knows what a feat that was!)

You'll see.

Explain yourself.

I'm glad you didn't, but I intended to advise Iso &
quot;Don't you dare!"

In this post, "eliminate" means "to cross off your list of suspects." Read the post again and I think you'll get that.

That makes more sense, yes. I still dislike your initial wording.

@Manders: I said "someone", because I was merely talking about what I believe his true intentions were, not about who was going to be lynched, if at all. I guess people drew their own conclusions. Also thank you, I learned a new English word today.

Upon reviewing the initial post that led to this statement, it
all makes sense now and I see the cause of the confusion. You were speaking generally, and we all took it as specifically.

First impressions:
GR is town.
Kaze, Suga, and imopen2 are scum.
rezombad is noob town.
The rest are null.

Why did you think imopen2 is scum at this point?

2 parts gut, 1 part Kaze jumping on him. It feels like bussing.

You'll see.

Breadcrumbing already, Iso? A bit early for that, no?

Why are you bringing
attention to it? You should know better than that.

Itemized responses for ease-of-access:

1. I appreciate brevity. The town's worst enemy is a high signal:noise ratio. Fully comprehensive contributions give town more opportunities to indulge irrelevant avenues of play, and scum then have more material for their own case-building.
   
   tldr: "Succinctness is pro-town." Post-by-post analysis includes a high attention opportunity cost, which I think Magic players can conceptually respect. If you give a thousand monkeys a thousand typewriters, eventually they'll all scumtell. People make mistakes.
   
   Manders' posts are a good example of stuff that increases the signal:noise ratio. He is responding to posts that don't directly impact the game. Scum often do this in the early game to participate/
   engage town and present them with opportunities to fuck up. (see item 3 for more about Manders)

It's obvious just from this game that I don't agree with you. For proof that my posting style doesn't make me scum, see any Town game I've been in. My blog on MTGS will show you which to look at.

[*] Fate's unvote, vote for GR is pro-town. As scum, he doesn't have much motivation to unvote the dominant wagon (Kaze) to chase a peripheral read. He is scum-hunting and confirming town reads along the way. Fate is probably town.

Agreed.

[*]Manders suggested Iso and Kaze are scum buddies.

I'm going to have to disagree with the bolded and be concerned that you are defending your buddy.

IGMEOY.

Confirmation bias is possible, but I think this post suggests
Manders is looking for superficial CASE MATERIAL and is not PoE town-hunting. You'd have to be pretty arrogant and married to your read to be subject to this much conf bias; it's only page 4.

Heh. You obviously don't know me.

[*]A name claim is spurious. I expect every quality setup to provide scum with reasonable safe/fake-claims, so early reveals only serve to give scum an idea of which powers to nightkill via flavor. See my point about signal:noise horseshit.

If that is what you expect, then you should find yourself quite disappointed from time to time. Futhermore, if the game can be broken to telling who has what power based on their character name alone, then it was a poorly-made game.

tangent curtain

---

Also, are you female? Completely
irrelevant, I know, and you can decline to answer, but I'm really curious.

I feel gender-represented by this diagram:

I would have rather you just decline to answer than interject some unreadable, unhelpful diagram.
I, however, do care, and am a woman, so please address me correctly in the future. Much appreciated.

Mostly I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to be snarky, but part of me also hoped that my shot at you would spur you to keep your word and actually catch-up. I am really glad you did, too, because I agree with much of what you've said so far.

I'll respond to this, not just for your benefit, but for everyone's.

Doing things such as this in an attempt to get
me to post more often will not net the reaction you desire. Quite the opposite, it will just piss me off, thus causing me to not post, as I don't post when angry (anymore ). I warned everyone in sign-ups that I don't have a lot of time for Mafia, and I meant it. Trust me, if I could sit here and play Mafia all day, I'd be in 4 games on Sally and would post ALMOST more than everyone else combined. Alas, Mafia doesn't pay the bills or keep the house clean, so there you go.

Don't hound me.

Why the question mark?

Because I don't know what will be accomplished by
claiming names.

Well, I said what the possible accomplishment could be when I proposed it, so I don't know what else you're looking for. Scum have been caught in a lie before. I promise.

MANDERS! What the hell is Iso talking about?

Even when he's at L-1, Iso's not scared. He actually thrives in high-intensity situations.

He's never scared. I'm used to it. He loves the pressure.

[Stardust]

2 parts gut, 1 part Kaze jumping on him. It feels like bussing.

Ah yes. I can see that.

You'll see.

Breadcrumbing already, Iso? A bit early for that, no?

Why are you bringing attention to it? You should know better than that.

I would have kept my mouth shut if I actually believed he was a town PR. There's good reason to bring attention to it.

I won't ask you for your
take on his townie motivation, but I can't see it.

MANDERS! What the hell is Iso talking about?

Even when he's at L-1, Iso's not scared. He actually thrives in high-intensity situations.

He's never scared. I'm used to it. He loves the pressure.

Hmm, maybe we should be giving him the chance to thrive then. Vote Iso.

[Manders]

Townie motivation: he's vanilla and trying to get scum to NK him at night. I've done it, and I'm sure he has, too.

Do you truly believe him to be scum? Because, if not, a wagon on him D1 is a stupid, pointless waste of time.

[Stardust]

Yes. I don't make a habit of voting for people I believe to be town.

[Manders]

I still believe a wagon on him D1 is pointless. He won't be lynched.

[Nuwen]

After reading Nuwen's analysis I'm comfortable with voting Kaze

Unvote

Vote Kazekikimaru

Also Nuwen The town's worst enemy is a highlow signal:noise ratio (when the signal gets drowned in the noise). You were having my nerd self cringing for your last few posts

Nobody's perfect. Did my general point get across? I think so. Like I said, town can VERY QUICKLY preoccupy itself pointing out little fallacies and grievances in every post.

You're citing my analysis after I said it no longer applied. Did you miss the post where I unvoted Kaze? Piggy-backing on
a town player's reads is a common scum tactic. You separate it from town-sheeping-town by reading contextual cues. In this instance, it's convenient that you agree with a point but ignore that my read evolved to the contrary.

Col. Khaddafi is not sheeping a town read of his own. He's just looking for an excuse to vote Kaze.

[Kazekirimaru]

Responses to Stardust

---

1) I don't believe you.
2) Why didn't you vote for imopen2 in your previous post when you accused him of rolefishing?

1. Okay.
2. Because I was waiting for his response to my accusations at the time.

Approximate hit percentage of this tactic? I know at least one game you were in where this failed.

You keep bringing this up against Iso. Why is this in particular so important to you? A purely random RVS vote is a known scumtell.

Why do you need to wait for the votecount? Surely you knew GR and imopen2 were voting you at the very least. Are they derp or scum?

I like confirmation. I read and reread the thread for the votes but I wanted a second opinion before I started. They're scummy.

Continuing with the wall... Why did you ignore Nuwen's issues with Iso's handling of your wagon? Does that help with your null read here at all? Speaking of which, what is your read on Iso (and why)?

Because it didn't affect my scumread on her. Why would it?

Iso is leaning scum as of right now. I'd like to see what comes of him from his breadcrumb in the future. It suggests he has power to control the lynch.

Hmm... perhaps I'm wrong that Kazikame and Iso are scum together...

May I ask what you were thinking here?

Btw, where is this "Kamikaze/Kazikame" nickname coming from? You can call me Kaze if my name's too long. If it's just an individual nickname quirkiness thing then I guess I'll roll with it.

1. I appreciate brevity. The town's worst enemy is a high signal:noise ratio. Fully comprehensive contributions give town more opportunities to indulge irrelevant avenues of play, and scum then have more material for their own case-building.

I understand where you're coming from here, but do you really think this is the best means of play
in a game composed of so many newbies?

The rest of Post 156 obliquely states you find Manders scummy. Is this correct?

I've read a bit about the subject. Scum, and more specifically noob scum, will try to justify a RSV vote with some "truly random" means, in order to avoid giving away anything about their alignment. It is a serious scum tell and like someone else has pointed out (in this game and another I was in), many a scum have been caught that way.

Why are you parroting Iso's earlier sentiments?

[quote="Manders » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:39 am":
rvn21kx5]Why the question mark?

Because I don't know what will be accomplished by claiming names.[/quote]
It gives scum less fakeclaim wiggle-room later.

I explained my take on Kaze's mindset about his wagon. As for scum pushing the wagon, sure, at some point, but not right now.

Implying you have an idea of scum pushing my wagon, but you won't divulge that information right now, even though it could get us on the right track for a day 1 scum lynch? Why?

Not to nitpick, but this is one thing I hate about MafiaScum's meta. I expect you to eventually provide reason for your G_R vote, primarily because if G_R is bandwagoned for the sake of bandwagoning,
then we learn nothing about the motivations of the people voting for him. Scum votes are easier to pick up on when you make them answer for them. Otherwise, you can just say, "oh well I was just trusting X's read" or "oh well I thought he was scum for -insert vague reason of choice-" and the scum get off the hook.

Iso, do you believe Nuwen's terse movements are a result of scumminess or just playstyle difference?

I suppose I should explain for everyone else that Iso as scum has never claimed vanilla. If he claims vanilla, he's town. As scum, he needs to set himself up to claim a power role. That's what I think he's doing here since there is no town motivation for coming out otherwise.

So Iso is scum for claiming to not be vanilla...?

Nice confirmation bias, Manders. It's okay if you don't like me, though. <3

It has nothing to do with whether I like you and everything to do with whether I like how you're playing the game. I think you're playing as scum.

And, I am the queen of confirmation bias. I once got Cyan lynched as Town because I saw something I couldn't explain to come from a Town-mindset. (Anyone who's ever tried to get Cyan lynched knows what a feat that was!)

I wasn't seriously saying you were voting me because you didn't like me.

Is this a good thing? It's my understanding confirmation bias isn't a good thing.

I still believe a wagon on him D1 is pointless. He won't be lynched.

[/quote]
Why are you so confident of that?

-----------------

Nuwen is a stronger townread now.
G_R is a stronger scumread.
Stardust is leaning town.


So...Yanni? dee_tot?

How about some more content from LordMcDonalds and Suga?

[Yannaria]

did I get replaced?
I'm here.
reread commencing later today.

[Manders]

2. Because I was waiting for his response to my accusations at the time.

Ok, let's see how he responded to your accusations.

His first post after your accusation. He is responding to my question of why I'm voting for you. He didn't address your accusation, only that you made it. You respond with a vote on him. Why did his response warrant a vote more than the accusation itself? Your response to Stardust makes no sense.

Is this a good thing? It's my understanding confirmation bias isn't a good thing.[/
quote]
I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm saying, as with many other things, it's something I do regardless of alignment. That's how I play the game, and it works pretty well for me.

I still believe a wagon on him D1 is pointless. He won't be lynched.

Why are you so confident of that?

Experience. Iso is an enigma. So much so that it takes a lot of information to sway the majority one way or the other. Much more information than can be attained in one Day. It's always best to leave him be for the first couple of Days. If he's Town and playing markedly well, the scum will off him before he can cause too much damage.

[quote="Yannus » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:17 am":
dnsnvb3j]did I get replaced?
I'm here.
reread commencing later today.

Nope, you're good. Welcome back.

[Yannaria]

OBLIGITORY VOTE ISO BECAUSE MY BONER IS SO BIG

Random says:

Vote: dee_tot2

---

unvote vote zombad

If spam is role playing. Which charter doesn't like public showers? I've never watched the show..

ew flavor gaming.
possible scum

[quote="DroppinSuga » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:48 pm":
e5a4eau5]Kaze is pinging me..

Unvote
Vote: Kaze[/quote]
dick ride manders much?

Vote: Tom Servo

Amidoonitrite?

we'll talk about this self voting thing in the post game. if you want to play mafia, don't do this shit. it's obnoxious and makes people hate you.

Who are you to say what warrants my vote upon somebody? Not to mention you're working on the assumption that you know what I'm trying to achieve from my vote. I could be pressuring you, I could be looking for reactions from other people(like scum jumping on a wagon,) etc.

But I'm the one with the faulty logic. Okay.
Have fun wagoning.


@Lord_Mcdonalds: What are your reads thus far, if any? What do you think about the current wagon on me.

@everyone: It's quite obvious that Tom Servo cares not for this game. Should action be taken?

lol die:

Who are you to say what warrants my vote upon somebody? Not to mention you're working on the assumption that you know what I'm trying to achieve from my vote. I could be pressuring you, I could be looking for reactions from other people(like scum jumping on a wagon,) etc.

But I'm the one with the faulty logic. Okay. Have fun wagoning.


@Lord_Mcdonalds: What are your reads thus far, if any? What do you think about the current wagon on me.

@everyone: It's quite obvious that Tom Servo cares not for this game. Should action be taken?

unvote vote kaze[/b:
e5a4eau5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aeT7HgToE8
Votecount #1:

TomServo (1) - Col. Khaddafi
rezombad (2) - GR, Iso
imopen (1) - Kazekirimaru
DroppinSuga (2) - rezombad, Spambolic
Kazekirimaru (6) - Fate, Nuwen, Manders, DroppinSuga, imopen2, TomServo

With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch!

---

Yanni and dee_tot2 are being prodded.

Oh, and please put your votes/unvotes at the start of a line, preferably in their own separate line of text.

IM A WARRIOR.

You people are astounding. I bet most of you are noobs voting me because I'm the easy wagon. Ridiculous. Why am I being lynched when there are so many other people being more scummy than I?

How about you guys actually slow down, stop being impatient day one haters/noob wagoners, and we actually find scum? Kay? Kay.

Kaze doesn't think there are scum on his wagon (except imopen2, the jump seat vote).

We're all just mistaken, right?

My zillion games of experience assure you all that in a similar situation, town minds are paranoid above all else. Town, especially new town, seek scum on their wagons.

Instead, he's approaching his wagon with comromising and discrediting language.

"The players voting for me are dumb - there are other slots scum mixer than I. Let's focus on those slots instead." He's not prepared to commit to scum reads on his
wagon because 2 of us have voted for or expressed interest in a scum-imopoen paradigm.

To me, his posts to this point seem motived to primarily:

1. Not estrange allies
2. Misdirect attention to other players.

I like you.

@Iso: Bored, and I loathe Day 1. Just hope it ends as fast as possible.

Plus I still have to learn on this series fot getting into character before I do anything else.

this rubs me the wrong way.

You people are astounding. I bet most of you are noobs voting me because I'm the easy wagon. Ridiculous. Why am I being lynched when there are so many other people being more scummy than I? Wagon jumping? Spam and fluff?
Misinformation? But no, I get the short end of the stick because I came in early and the majority of you are too lazy to actually play this game and find real scum. Cool story, bro.

How about you guys actually slow down, stop being impatient day one haters/noob wagoners, and we actually find scum? Kay? Kay.

cry more.

But anyway, this is how I see it. Town wouldn't show up late, ask me if I planned on contributing to the game I had already been contributing to, and then utilize their psychic powers to claim knowledge of my "plans to kill the town" by way of "Not... playing the game". I mean this is totes my first game for realzies, but that's pretty scummy.

Unvote: Kaze

Vote: Iso

omgus?
I seriously see why manders tried toget me blacklisted from mafia, this
is really fucking annoying.

Unvote:
Vote: G_R

Wow that was easy

hey it's a scum what was easy.
unvote vote fate

who said I wanted townies to vote you Kaze?

I got what I wanted from you

the fuck is this

I'm really glad this game is moving as slowly as it is because, as it is, I'm going to have to respond to the entire game at this point. There's a lot of stuff I have responses to and couldn't make yet.

I know what I'll be doing tomorrow!!

Posting about how you didn't get to responding to anything yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mdy8bFiyzY

are you going to actually do something

1. "the
early wagon": you describe my vote for rezombad as being "a jump on the early wagon." If you reread, you will find that mine was only the second vote for rezombad, hardly a wagon imo.
2. "with a terrible reason": I believe the first phase of the game is called RVS for a reason. "A so-called random vote is one made very early in the game with no serious reasoning given." -mafiascumwiki (wiki never lies, it was founded by the white-man)
3. My post aimed at you after I said that your vote was terrible and did not warrant a response was due to your prodding on the subject. While your vote may have been bad and I ignored it, when there are concerns from the players in this game about me ignoring a vote, I feel the need to respond. I'm sure you would have used my continued silence to make a case against me anyways, right?
4. I explained my vote on rezombad for what it was, a joke and a feeler in the RVS phase of the game. I believe I am allowed to keep some of my reads to
myself when I want to, and I also think my opinion of rezombad was made clear when I changed my vote to you; he was at least playing less scummy than you were.

1. Wagons don't have to be large to be wagons. Regardless, the main point of that was there was low-hanging fruit and you swiped at it. Good job arguing semantics, though.
2. Your vote had reasoning behind it, despite you attempting to cover it up with lackadaisical wording. You were coaxing along a wagon on page one.
3. So...you only responded because not doing so would make you look scummy?
4. Call it what you want in hindsight. The only joke here is your scumplay.

OH HO HO HO GOOD JOKE KAZE. I GET IT, BEACUSE YOU OVERREACTED TO A JOKE, AND NOW YOUR HOLE IS SO DEEP, IN FOR A TEENTH, IN FOR AN OUNCE.

YOU'RE SO FUNNY!. unvote vote kaze
[quote="Iso » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:27 pm":
e5a4eau5]I'm fine with a name claim.[/quote]
I'm actually pretty fine with one too for the first time in a while.

Jumping from wagon to wagon.

He had voted for two people at the time you made this post. That hardly warrants concern.

vote: rezombad

Seems fairly straight-forward today.[/quote:
e5a4eau5]

Let's all just hold our horses for a gosh darned minute! The day has barely started, a number of the folks have yet to post, and you call this "fairly-straight forward"?

unvote
vote: DroppinSuga

How is it not "fairly-straight forward"? What does the inactivity of other players have to do with whether he is scum or not?

I'm not the strongest guy in the world but I can tell this is weak! That's two horrible votes now, both on people already getting voted.

Why is it relevant that he's voting people who've already been voted?

@imopen2: I voted you. You have no response to that?

Why does he have to respond to you? You didn't ask questions and you barely gave reasons for your vote.

It was such an obviously bad vote I felt that others could see that without me responding. I believe the town's job is to seek out information and ask questions that lead to the elimination of the other town members or the discovery of a scum. Me trying to pin down Spam's role in the event that he is roleplaying (which he obviously is) should not, in and of itself, warrant your vote. The fact that you asked Spam if he was role playing in the first place makes it more strange to me that you would accuse me of rolefishing and then use it as a reason to vote me. I never said I believe Spam is who he presents himself to be, but I don't see the harm in discussing it.

I am voting for you because you are quick at throwing out accusations and I don't follow your logic so far.

Vote: Kaze[/quote:
e5a4eau5]
RE: the bolded portion.

That's such an odd way to phrase that. Why would you say the town's job is primarily to kill off other town and secondarily to catch scum?

Don't have any, I don't care for rezombad wagon hopping, bout it.

What wagon-hopping?

Vote Tom Servo

Because he'
s a menace that should be put to stop.

I would vote me too.

So why didn't you do so in this post?

Vote: Kaze

too easy?

I see it, too.

Vote: Kazekirimaru

Who can tell me why I voted for him?

Diarrhea of the mouth? Or was it the subtle mudslinging?

What mud-slinging?

It's my first, but it's easily my last.

Then why don't you do something instead of bitching about how no one else is doing anything?

Please provide examples of Tom bitching about this because I didn't see any.

unvote
Vote: suga

Why?

Jumping from wagon to wagon.

I don't care for rezombad wagon hopping, bout it.

I should have been more clear earlier. My vote was because of Suga's wagon hopping. Not me wagon hopping onto Suga.

vote: rezombad

Seems fairly straight-forward today.

Code: Select all

G_R, imopen2, * Suga*

Kaze is pinging me..

Unvote
Vote: Kaze

Code: Select all

Fate, Manders, Nuwen, *Suga*

So that wagoning inspired me to vote for him. Since then his only posts have been: "Trust me guise I'm not scum" and "I have no evidence, just a gut feeling for my vote for Kaze."

this post cooled rezmo in my eyes for today.

Is there a reason more people aren't voting rezombad?

Because he's noob town.

@Iso:
Bored, and I loathe Day 1. Just hope it ends as fast as possible.

Plus I still have to learn on this series fot getting into character before I do anything else.

1) Keep this up, and it may end the same way the last game did.
2) No, you don't have to learn the characters. I never did for Adventure Time, and I did just fine.

hey it's town manders.

Manders just curious, why would you be ambivelant to the idea of everyone posting before the day ends?



alright, so here are my reads
1. imopen2 - neutral/leaning town
2. Iso - it's fucking iso I can't read this guy
3. Manders - strongly leaning town
4. Yanni* - toooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
5. Stardust - neutral leaning town
6. dee_tot2* where dis nigga
7. Nuwen strongly leaning town
8. G_R - nuetral leaning scum
9. Kazekirimaru strongly leaning scum
10.
DroppinSuga leaning scum
11. Fate leaning scum
12. Rezombad neutral/slightly leaning scum
13. Lord_McDonalds neutral/do nothing
14. TomServo obnoxious
15. Spambolic leaning twon
16. Col. Khaddafi neutral with minor scum vibes.

and unvote vote: kaze

[Yannaria]

aHHHH those formatting issues
whatever, I just said that rezmo's post about the wagon cooled him off.

[Col. Khaddafi]

After reading Nuwen's analysis I'm comfortable with voting Kaze

Unvote

Vote Kazekikimaru

Also Nuwen The town's worst enemy is a highlow signal:noise ratio (when the signal gets drowned in the noise). You were having my nerd self cringing for your last few posts

Nobody's perfect. Did my general point get across? I think so. Like I said, town can VERY QUICKLY preoccupy itself pointing out little
fallacies and grievances in every post.

You're citing my analysis after I said it no longer applied. Did you miss the post where I unvoted Kaze? Piggy-backing on a town player's reads is a common scum tactic. You separate it from town-sheeping-town by reading contextual cues. In this instance, it's convenient that you agree with a point but ignore that my read evolved to the contrary.

Col. Khaddafi is not sheeping a town read of his own. He's just looking for an excuse to vote Kaze.

You just backed out stating that he read town without providing any reasoning of your own. I liked the post I quoted better.

Townie motivation: he's vanilla and trying to get scum to NK him at night. I've done it, and I'm sure he has, too.

And scum can sometimes willingfully murder vanillas to throw off
people so it doesn't means much.

[Stardust]

1) I don't believe you.
2) Why didn't you vote for imopen2 in your previous post when you accused him of rolefishing?

1. Okay.
2. Because I was waiting for his response to my accusations at the time.

He never did respond to you directly. This is the post that lead to you vote him. What did you learn from this?

[quote="Kazekirimaru » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:11 am":
1h85qx84]

Approximate hit percentage of this tactic? I know at least one game you were in where this failed.

You keep bringing this up against Iso. Why is this in particular so important to you? A purely random RVS vote is a known scumtell.[/quote]
It's the only real reasoning he's given for pointing at rezombad (which I read as a deflection). I checked after my last post on the subject. Of the seven games I've been directly involved in five of those had someone random voting, self-voting, voting for everyone or explicitly voting for noone in RVS. All five of those people caught flak for it and all five of them were town. "Known", yes, but unreliable.


[quote="Kazekirimaru » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:11 am":
1h85qx84]

Continuing with the wall... Why did you ignore Nuwen's issues with Iso's handling of your wagon? Does that help with your null read here at all? Speaking of which, what is your read on Iso (and why)?

Because it didn't affect my scumread on her. Why would it?[/quote]
Mainly because it's a question I feel you should have been asking yourself. It was directly related to your wagon and, in my opinion, was a very informative post - probably the most informative post on the topic of Nuwen's alignment. You say that you think Iso may be scum. Since you "know" you're town, why did Nuwen post that?

I'd like to see what comes of him from his
breadcrumb in the future. It suggests he has power to control the lynch.

Hmm... perhaps I'm wrong that Kazikame and Iso are scum together...

May I ask what you were thinking here?

... I was going to decline, but for the sake of the newbies I'll spell this one out. Basically, Iso as scum is breadcrumbing a fake claim that he's brewing. His scum buddy Kaze pressures him to give more detail. Very unlikely scenario. That alone points to at least one of you being town.

Btw, where is this "Kamikaze/Kazikame" nickname coming from? You can call me Kaze if my name's too long. If it's just an individual nickname quirkiness thing then I guess I'll roll with it.

This is what I see when glancing at your username. Kazikame sounds right enough that I second-guessed myself and had to google the correct spelling of kamikaze.

I suppose I should explain for everyone else that Iso as scum has never claimed vanilla. If he claims vanilla, he's town. As scum, he needs to
set himself up to claim a power role. That's what I think he's doing here since there is no town motivation for coming out otherwise.

So Iso is scum for claiming to not be vanilla...?

Iso is scum for breadcrumbing when town has no business doing so.


Anyway, I'm feeling better about you all the time. Thanks for the responses.

[( G_R )]

I've read a bit about the subject. Scum, and more specifically noob scum, will try to justify a RSV vote with some "truly random" means, in order to avoid giving away anything about their alignment. It is a serious scum tell and like someone else has pointed out (in this game and another I was in), many a scum have been caught that way.

Why are you parroting Iso's earlier sentiments?

I'm answering Stardust about why I made a serious vote for rezombad. It's the real reason, and I believe Iso only offered his opinion afterwards.

[Yannaria]

Iso is scum for breadcrumbing when town has no business doing so.

you have got to be fucking kidding me

[Nuwen]

@Nuwen: I disagree with your assessment that it's too early to draw connections between players - I thrive in RVS, typically, though I missed that this time around - but that is theory talk that is neither here nor there.

I said the opposite. The early game is full of tells, especially when players enter post-RVS and are forced to pick a topic to focus on.

1. I appreciate brevity. The town's worst enemy is a high signal:noise ratio. Fully comprehensive contributions give town more opportunities to indulge irrelevant avenues of play, and scum then have more material for their own case-
   building.

I understand where you're coming from here, but do you really think this is the best means of play in a game composed of so many newbies?[/quote]

New players are even MORE likely to entrench themselves in a long-distance tangent. Mafia is an overwhelming game. The first advice I give to any new player is usually "don't get bogged down, keep your mind open, and don't be afraid to trust/follow your reads."

I agree with your town read on Rezombad.

The progression of Stardust's reads on this page make him pretty town.

My lynch pool is narrowed down to: G_R, Col. Khaddafi, Manders.

Yannus' list of reads covers EVERY player, but his PBPA highlights mostly trivial stuff. I don't see much that acknowledges the game state's progression and he concludes with a weak vote for Kaze and a misguided read on Fate. Most of his scum reads don't make sense together contextually:

1. imopen2 - neutral/leaning town
2. Iso - it's fucking iso I can't read this
guy
3. Manders - strongly leaning town
4. Yanni* - toooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
5. Stardust - neutral leaning town
6. dee_tot2* where dis nigga
7. Nuwen strongly leaning town
8. G_R - nuetral leaning scum
9. Kazekirimaru strongly leaning scum
10. DroppinSuga leaning scum
11. Fate leaning scum
12. Rezombad neutral/slightly leaning scum
13. Lord_McDonalds neutral/do nothing
14. TomServo obnoxious
15. Spambolic leaning twon
16. Col. Khaddafi neutral with minor scum vibes.

A lot of these reads don't reconcile with a believable game state. When Yannus finished catching up, he essentially concluded:

1. Nuwen is town, but she is reading Fate incorrectly. Fate is leaning scum because ???.
2 G_R is worth mentioning as a scum possibility. G_R is currently jump seat (most recent) voting for Kaze.
3. Kaze is also scum!
4. Besides those conflicting scum reads, Rezombad is also scum. Kaze is scum proactively defending Rezombad while G_R is scum proactively attempting to bus
Rezombad AND Kaze.

I don't think these conclusions were reached by a town mind attempting to find scum. His narrative of events is internally inconsistent with town PoE. The motivation to list those people as scum is clear: Yannus wants to be able to flexibly commit to any of the above wagons, AND point to an earlier point in the game where he suspects any of the above as scum.

[Nuwen]

God I miss multiquote functionality

[Yannaria]

did you miss fate's lurking in plain site?
how about kaze's shitty defense against his wagon and his buttpain about it going on?
how do my reads not make sense given the context of the game?

Originally posted by N on MTGS

I don't think these conclusions were reached by a town mind attempting to find scum. His narrative of events is internally inconsistent with town PoE. The motivation to list those people as scum is clear: Yannus wants to be able to flexibly commit to any of the above wagons, AND point to an earlier point in the game where he suspects any of the above as scum.

if this is true, why am I not in your lynch pool?

[Kazekirimaru]

2. Because I was waiting for his response to my accusations at the time.

Ok, let's see how he responded to your accusations.

His first post after your accusation. He is responding to my question of why I'm voting for you. He didn't address your accusation, only that you made it. You respond with a vote on him. Why did his response warrant a vote more than the
accusation itself? Your response to Stardust makes no sense.

Okay, look at his post after my accusation:

Is it because he asked Spam about his role and then accused me of role fishing? Or is it because he did a policy lynch even tho Wikipedia said not to? Either way I don't like having my joke vote mattering so ill Unvote and then see what others have to say about Kaze

This shows to me that he is eager to attempt to show me in a poor light since I accused him. Also, his lack of reaction is just as good as one. He ignored it completely. He didn't even try to refute it. NewTown is self-righteous and quick to set things straight, as well as afraid of getting lynched. That's what got to me.

@Yanni: Welcome.
Your reads list has a lot of reads on people
you didn't find quoteworthy, feel free to explain those?

[( G_R )]

*Off-Game post*

Multi-quote Tips:

At this moment, the multi-quote function is not working properly, but you can still benefit from it's current incarnation, working around the flaws with the following tips:

1. The multi-quote won't work across pages. If you want to quote posts from multiple pages, repeat this process for each page, saving the quotes (by means of browser tabs or text editor).
2. Check the posts within a page that you want to multi-quote. Then hit the Post Reply button.
3. The resulting text has the first quote tag wrapped around eveything. Just cut the last "[/quote]" and paste it right after the end of the first quote.
4. That's it! You have managed to multi-quote despite the bugs.

[Iso]

@Stardust:

"Why didn't you mention it in your first post of the game?"

Um, I did? I asked Manders, specifically, why she was voting Kaze because I'm more familiar with her (and Yanni, but he hadn't posted until now) than anyone else in this game and expected her to give me a complete answer because I didn't understand the wagon on Kaze. Additionally, I was more focused on lynching zombad.


"So, at 75%, would you say it's worthwhile lynching people who do this regardless of other evidence? Aside from that, he's got noob town written all over him. Considering I've seen tactics like this fail twice and never work, I'm inclined to believe the other evidence in this case."

Oh right, forgot that time with Teia. Well, tell me, what about zombad do you think is so town, exactly?


"Yes, you did say you hadn'
t seen anything anti-town, then went on to defend his frustration. Do you believe Kaze is town?"

I wouldn't be white knighting Kaze if I didn't think he was town.


"What about this post specifically. You believe Kaze when he says it was meant to be a trap?"

No, actually, I think that was a line of crock that he came up with because he felt pressured. The "<3" was clearly forced but he's obviously trying to keep a cool there. Kaze said he played once before, and it was as scum, right? So as someone who saw Teia's transition from "first game scum" to "second game town" and had absolutely no concept of how to play the game as town afterwards, do you not see similarities here?


"Disagree. That was completely unnecessary. Feels more like you're working on solidifying yourself as a power role than working towards a townie goal here.

I suppose I
should explain for everyone else that Iso as scum has never claimed vanilla. If he claims vanilla, he's town. As scum, he needs to set himself up to claim a power role. That's what I think he's doing here since there is no town motivation for coming out otherwise."

As I said, you'll see.


"I would have kept my mouth shut if I actually believed he was a town PR. There's good reason to bring attention to it.

I won't ask you for your take on his townie motivation, but I can't see it."

That's because you don't know my role.


"It's the only real reasoning he's given for pointing at rezombad (which I read as a deflection). I checked after my last post on the subject. Of the seven games I've been directly involved in five of those had someone random voting, self-voting, voting for everyone or explicitly voting for noone in RVS. All five of those people caught flak for
it and all five of them were town. "Known", yes, but unreliable."

Deflecting from what, exactly? There's absolutely no pressure on me.


"... I was going to decline, but for the sake of the newbies I'll spell this one out. Basically, Iso as scum is breadcrumbing a fake claim that he's brewing. His scum buddy Kaze pressures him to give more detail. Very unlikely scenario. That alone points to at least one of you being town."

Guess we'll see what happens, eh? :3


"Iso is scum for breadcrumbing when town has no business doing so."

Again, you don't know my role. Bite me.

-

@Manders:

"Why are you bringing attention to it? You should know better than that."




"I still believe a wagon on him D1 is pointless. He won't be lynched."



-

@Nuwen:

Is there a reason you didn't address my statement(s) directed towards you until later?

-

@Kaze: I would appreciate it if you didn't speculate on my role out loud, thanks. That said, if you legitimately think I'm scum, how does that parse with your thought that I might be able to control the lynch?


"Implying you have an idea of scum pushing my wagon, but you won't divulge that information right now, even though it could get us on the right track for a day 1 scum lynch? Why?"

Gee, I dunno. Maybe because I was going to bed shortly afterwards and have been really busy with trying to get a job lately? No, that couldn't be it.


"Iso, do you believe Nuwen's terse movements are a result of scumminess or just playstyle difference?"

Nuwen gives me the impression that she believes what she's saying but I'll reserve judgment on that for later, when I have some wagons to analyze.


"So Iso is scum for
claiming to not be vanilla...?"

Where did I claim to be not vanilla? Why do you keep fishing for my role after I told you I'm not going to give any more information for the time being?

-

@Yanni:

"OBLIGITORY VOTE ISO BECAUSE MY BONER IS SO BIG"

<3

Also you unvoted and revoted Kaze like 4 times in your post, what's up?

-

@Col. Khaddafi:

"And scum can sometimes willingfully murder vanillas to throw off people so it doesn't means much."

Last time I was Vanilla in a completed game was (IIRC) Mod Mafia 6 and I caught the entire scumteam on Day 1. I was the Night 1 kill despite the fact that I claimed Vanilla and that Teia claimed Doc.

[Iso]

Whoops, the deflection response was directed at your statement about me deflecting @Stardust. I copy+pasted the wrong one.

[admin]

More multiquote tangents:

we have multiquote, its just that its a shitty multiquote. I hope they will fix this in future upgrades of phpbb3 because that is out of the realm of modding possibilities.

Here is a tutorial on how to multiquote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxrWmX4CcA

[Stardust]

Okay, I'll let it be. Thanks for the complete responses.

Unvote.

"What about this post specifically. You believe Kaze when he says it was meant to be a trap?"

No, actually, I think that was a line of crock that he came up with because he felt pressured. The "<3" was clearly forced but he's obviously trying to keep a cool there. Kaze said he played once before, and it was as scum, right? So as someone who saw Teia's transition from "first game scum" to "second game town" and had absolutely no concept of how to play the game as town afterwards, do you not see similarities here?[/quote:
223wa3ig]
Being town is hard, it's true. I don't see a lot of similarities between Kaze and Teia, but I get your point.

Deflecting from what, exactly? There's absolutely no pressure on me.

Deflecting from Kaze, who at the time I'd figured for your scum buddy. I misread your first post question to Manders as accusing her of mudslinging rather than trying to figure out the wagon. You guys are sufficiently separated at this point as far as I'm concerned.

Last time I was Vanilla in a completed game was (IIRC) Mod Mafia 6 and I caught the entire scumteam on Day 1. I was the Night 1 kill despite the fact that I claimed Vanilla and that Teia claimed Doc.[/
quote]
And then scum won! What a trainwreck. Worst game I've been in. Other than King of the Hill.

Well, tell me, what about zombad do you think is so town, exactly?

Okay, let's do it.

Posts and stuff

---

I thought it was random time? What's more random than random?

Right away there is nothing but confusion. No worry. No fear that god damn he'd already fucked up being scum with his very first post.

Then he votes Suga with pretty legit reasoning (wagon jumping). Fine enough. Explains himself to Lord McD's and asks for reasons from Iso after people start voting for him. He's not panicking like noob scum tend
to do, but he is self-centered - a noob town trait.

This post reiterates his case on Suga, again ignoring everything going on around him. To me we're looking at a classic rookie who's concerned with two people: himself and the person he suspects. Cases are hard to wrap your head around, made worse by the fact that you can't trust the people presenting them. So rookies (in my experience) tend not to comment on others' cases unless pushed to do so. Not true for noob scum who know more and can more easily get involved since they know who's on their team (unless they're paralyzed by fear, but that's not what we've got in this case).

Feel free to dispute my assumptions there, but this is exactly what I've seen from noob town in the past.

But anyway, I'm not doing anything important now that you're wrapped up and Kaze nearly is too.

[b:
223wa3ig]rezombad![/b] What do you think of Kaze, Iso, ( G_R ) and Manders? Please show your work. Additionally, is there anyone besides Suga (or those four) that you suspect may be scum?

Kazikame! Please respond to my last post. There are a couple things there that I'd really like answers to (saw the overlap with Manders', so you can skip that if you like).

admin!

---

Is there any way we can do a search for all posts by a certain user in thread? Not a big deal yet, but it will be.