Sharking

[Pendulum]

Yeah, I know, this conversation has been done to death but I think we might get a bit more adult discussion over here.

Today I was in a trade for a 'Goyf, which neither I nor the person I was trading with play much Modern so we didn't know what it's true value was. Turned out that we both egregiously undervalued it ($75) and I ended up sharking that guy pretty bad. Normally I'm not much of a shark, in fact I kind of hate it when people have to check their smartphones for values to make sure they aren't getting ripped off, but I do meet a lot of people who swear by their ability to turn a profitable trade every now and again.

So what are your thoughts on trying to get more value for your cards and less for theirs? Any tips on how to do it/ what to watch out for? Sweet scumbag brags maybe?

[Blackhound]

Not so much sharking, but this guy I know was just selling off all his cards at cut price, he was selling his snapcaster mages off for £10 each ($15.38) for you Americans. Bought the playset off him for £40 ($61.53).

He knew the real price but he was not botherd.

[Stardust]

I don't consider myself a shark, but probably 75% of the trades I make these days favours me, if only slightly. I don't overvalue my stuff or anything like that, but the fact is that I have most of the mid-level cards that I want these days. Most of what I want is either expensive and rare or dollar-bin garbage. Because I want to have a reason to make a trade (and I'm not looking for anything specific in their binder), I ask for a little extra value, like their $8 shock for my $7 shock or something. That way I can hopefully build up to one of the more expensive cards I'm actually looking for. I'm also notorious for asking for random throw-ins since I often want a random junky card or two that they don't care about anyway.

Actually, one kinda sharky thing I do is trade standard strait up for legacy or modern cards, especially if I opened money at the prerelease. It's even value, right?

[Kazekirimaru]

I try to be as fair as I can, but if the trade ends up in my favor a bit I won't lose any sleep over it.

I traded some shitty, obscure angel card I had to a guy collecting them for a playset of Isochron Scepter once. In that case, he valued that angel quite highly since he never saw it before, and I didn't feel all too bad because he got something he genuinely wanted.

If the person obviously doesn't know the value of what they have and is about to take a huge loss in a trade with me, I'll tell them. I get no rush fucking people over.

[Yarpus]

I've managed to get lots of good trades. But never tried to actually lie about the value of a card. It was more like: "This card costs X on SCG. I'd buy it from you for 1/2 or 3/4 X." Usually convincing people that they'll never sell it on such a high price tag.

[Stardust]

Dude, I'd sell my entire trade binder to you at 3/4 SCG value! That's actually a really good deal for the seller if they value their time at all.

[Checkbox]

probably my best "value trade" was his Torment Foil Grim Lavamancer for my PDS Foil Brood Sliver. Straight up. He offered the trade, I needed the Grim Lavamancer for my cube, I was fine with it. He was one of those one-for-one traders; I don't mind "sharking" a lot of the time if I'm not doing it just for trade value. For example, I traded a guy for a Mirage Natural Order at basically a few dollars value since he didn't know what it was worth and I just wanted an EDH copy. I rarely will shark just to obtain "value" to go back into my binder, but for things I need for various purposes, Idgaf

[Valdarith]

I try to eek out a little value in all my trades, but I never go so far as to rip people off. If someone REALLY wants a card I have and is willing to rip themselves off for it, I let them know in advance that the trade is not favorable for them monetarily. If they don't mind, so be it.

I could never trade some newb a Serra Angel for their Tarmogoyf or something ridiculous. I have a guilty conscience.

[rezombad]

My:
Captivating vampire
Necrotic ooze

His:
Tarmogoyf

This was when I was just getting back into things around m12. I didn't mean to rip him off but I wouldn't trade him back.

[Link]

2 lightning maulers for a Domri is my worst trade.

I made sure he knew what he was doing, but he was desperate and NOBODY had LMs for him.

[Alex]

I don't feel shame, and I am an avid binder grinder. I spend a lot of time reading about the financial side of the game, as as such I have a pretty good feel for whether or not things will rise or fall in the coming weeks. That being said, I'd never lose a minute of sleep over getting a Tarmogoyf for $50 in value, nor would I judge someone harshly who tried to do the same to me. It's your job just as much as it is my job to know what your cards are worth. I'm not obligated to tell you the worth of your cards, and if I am, why am I suddenly obligated to tell you the RIGHT price? Especially in this day and age, where smartphones are a thing? If you fancy yourself a savvy trader, do some research. If you don't feel comfortable, use your phone or ask someone else to look things up for you. It isn't like you'd just buy a car for whatever a dealer told you it was worth, you'd do some research. Why wouldn't you do the
same here?

It's never awkward for me when I meet other people who are clearly trying to shark me. Usually we both laugh about it.

[Kaitscralt]

I like when people not only expect you to look up prices on your phone for them, but also require seeing it as if you're going to lie about what the site says.

[Alex]

I like when people not only expect you to look up prices on your phone for them, but also require seeing it as if you're going to lie about what the site says.

I would totally lie to their face. Asperger's is awesome for this because I don't think they can ever tell.

[Nuwen]

I like when people not only expect you to look up prices on your phone for them, but also require seeing it as if you're going to lie about what the site says.

I would totally lie to their face. Asperger's is awesome for this because I don't think they can ever tell.

Have you ever played face-to-face mafia? Our group of friends gets together and plays pretty regularly in Raleigh.

[Alex]

I have no idea what that is.

[Nuwen]

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/610087

The game pits an uninformed majority team ("town") against an informed minority team ("mafia"). The town wins when all mafia are dead, and the mafia wins when they control a majority of the game. Mafia are aware of each other's existence and know they are playing as a team. A town individual knows nothing except his own role.

Play is broken into two primary phases: day & night. During the day phase, all players speak to each other and the town attempts to root out mafia members. A lynch requires the majority of players to place their vote on a target. At night, town members go to sleep and are unable to communicate with each other. Mafia select a member of the town to slaughter overnight, and then the game continues to next day phase.
n
Role with different powers are thrown into the mix. A doctor, for example, is a town role that wakes up at night and selects a protective target. If the mafia attempt to kill the protected player, the kill will fail. A mafia setup can emphasize deductive reasoning with tons of interactive roles, or focus entirely on psychological play in an all-vanilla game ("mountainous").

tl;dr come play with us

[Alex]

Oh, so this is like Bang!

I'm amazing at games like these.

[Nuwen]

Bang is a watered-down version. The cards in Bang usually force you to reveal your motivations pretty early-on, so the game is a little less psychological and more mechanical.

Plus there's the whole fuck-RNG-the-sheriff-is-on-horse-sitting-between-two-deputies thing.

But like bang, independent factions are a thing in Mafia. The most common is the Serial Killer, who has a nightkill but no team to support him. His wincon is usually to be the last man like, like Bang's renegade.

[Alex]

Have you ever played Bang with all of the expansions? Cause it sounds super similar.

[Nuwen]

Yarr.

[Jack]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=88027#p88027:34g0aizr]Alex » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:27 pm[/url:34g0aizr]":34g0aizr][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=88026#p88026:34g0aizr]Kaitscralt » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:16 pm[/url:34g0aizr]":34g0aizr]I like when people not only expect you to look up prices on your phone for them, but also require seeing it as if you're going to lie about what the site says.[/quote:34g0aizr]
I would totally lie to their face. Asperger's is awesome for this because I don't think they can ever tell.[/quote:34g0aizr]
I'm pretty sure that this isn't because of Asperger's, it's just who you are. I also have Asperger's, and in this situation, I'd almost always assume that they knew I'd be lying to them. Maybe I'd just been playing Asperger's wrong my whole life.

[Alex]

I like when people not only expect you to look up prices on your phone for them, but also require seeing it as if you're going to lie about what the site says.

I would totally lie to their face. Asperger's is awesome for this because I don't think they can ever tell.

I'm pretty sure that this isn't because of Asperger's, it's just who you are. I also have Asperger's, and in this situation, I'd almost always assume
that they knew I'd be lying to them. Maybe I'd just been playing Asperger's wrong my whole life.

I'm a very good actor. You can ask Nuwen or Fate, I'm pretty socially normal now, at least on the surface. But it took years of conscious effort on my part to get to that point.

It's mostly just fake charisma, though. I picked it up during my time at Disney.

[Pendulum]

You know you could have just started with "I used to work for Disney" and we'd all just have assumed you were a shark, Alex.

[Alex]

You know you could have just started with "I used to work for Disney" and we'd all just have assumed you were a shark, Alex.

Disney's an awesome company to work for. I don't know where the stigma that they're some type of evil entity that only grubs at money came from, because during my six years there I never once encountered a situation where that was the case.

The whole price "gouging" thing is actually a big fallacy. Everything isn't expensive because "Disney is trying to rip you off," it's expensive because they have to cover the parts of the year where they operate at a HUGE loss. From July to about November, most of the
parks and resorts are under 10% occupancy, which means they're operating at a loss of just shy of $300,000 a day.

[Pendulum]

You can't be serious. Dude, they invented overseas slave-labor outsourcing AND overzealous litigation, not to mention their truly abysmal business practices (rewriting history and/or classic literature to fit their ideals, vaulting their product, etc. etc.). Yes, they are good to their performers and gave you a chance to bang princesses all day, but don't pretend they're a "good" company just because you struck it lucky.

[Pendulum]

I'd like to think that this current deviation is actually at the root of the topic.

[Alex]

You can't be serious. Dude, they invented overseas slave-labor outsourcing AND overzealous litigation, not to mention their truly abysmal business practices (rewriting history and/or classic literature to fit their ideals, vaulting their product, etc. etc.). Yes, they are good to their performers and gave you a chance to bang princesses all day, but don't pretend they're a "good" company just because you struck it lucky.

You act like I care about overseas labor and theft. None of these things affect me, and I was blessed by not having a conscious.

All I know is what I experienced in the US of A.

[Pendulum]

Yeah, but that's where the stigma comes from.

[Nuwen]

You can't be serious. Dude, they invented overseas slave-labor outsourcing AND overzealous litigation, not to mention their truly abysmal business practices (rewriting history and/or classic literature to fit their ideals, vaulting their product, etc. etc.). Yes, they are good to their performers and gave you a chance to bang princesses all day, but don't pretend they're a "good" company just because you struck it lucky.

What type of car do you drive?

[Kazekirimaru]

Yay for thread topic deviations.

[Checkbox]

"blessed by not having a conscience"

[Alex]

"blessed by not having a conscience"

When I watch people struggle with moral decisions, I grin to myself knowing that I don't have to ever make those.

[Checkbox]

Said the Disney employee

[Alex]

Said the Disney employee

Former Disney employee.

Also that's Prince Alex to you, peasant.

[Pendulum]

You can't be serious. Dude, they invented overseas slave-labor outsourcing AND overzealous litigation, not to mention their truly abysmal business practices (rewriting history and/or classic literature to fit their ideals, vaulting their product, etc. etc.). Yes, they are good to their performers and gave you a chance to bang princesses all day, but don't pretend they're a "good" company just because you struck it lucky.

What type of car do you drive?

Lol, which one?

[Col. Khaddafi]

Yay for thread topic deviations.

Magic General

[Col. Khaddafi]

I drive a Ford Mondeo Station Wagon

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm fly like a (Pontiac) G6.

[Thrillho]

sharking people is generally bad for the community because it makes people not want to participate or have trades/binders because the fear is that they're constantly being stolen from in some shape or form. while in my heyday i would totally rob someone straight up if given the chance, it's far more profitable to not make everyone wary of you as a trader by just knowing where card values are headed and doing the research and reading the runes for long-term value than it is to steal from people.

what's good for the community is good for your bottom line in a game that thrives on demand generated by a community of paying customers. you should consider the long-term financial ramifications of your actions before gutting someone and pouring their blood in the water. i say this as someone who literally functions as a store to the communities i participate in.

it's usually better to pay a fair market price and have your
customer saying "man i used to have that card and now it's a hundred dollars i was so stupid" in 10 months than having them come back to you 10 minutes after your trade and you having to pull the "no takesies backsies" card on them.

i paid fair market value for a playset of foil tarmogoyf at $70 a copy and now they're $400 a copy. i paid fair market value for hundreds of zendikar fetchlands while they were legal in standard and now they're $40 a copy. i don't have anyone raising eyebrows at me, i make my money, and people want to come back and trade with me after the fact -- people explicitly ask for me. i've created a sustainable business model for myself as a result.

these business practices have paid for two dealer tables, glass cases to display my products in, a car, and two apartments' first and last month's rent + broker fees, plus reinvestment into the game every set over the past 4 or so years as a "job" i only worked one evening out of a given week because
i have too much shit going on to possibly invest more than one day a week on it. in addition, i haven't had a need to trade out of need in 4 years, and also have three formats worth of cards almost completely foiled out to compliment an all-encompassing constructed format collection.

[Stardust]