[Idea] Burn

[RDW]

Pillar to keep the curve reasonably filled, IMO.

[Pendulum]

After a few more playtesting sessions, I think 23 land is too high. I find myself flooding out to 5+ lands too often.

There's a tension between hitting big bonfires and drawing enough gas in time, though. It's hard to say where the optimal count is. I'm going to try 22 for next week at 3 bonfires.

Not sure whether I should bring in the 4th pillar or helix to replace the land.

I love Helix. Even as a nerfed version of... Helix, it's still smexy. I want to do dirty, dirty things to that card. I love it. Please play more Sexy Helix. Please?

[RDW]

After a few more playtesting sessions, I think 23 land is too high. I find myself flooding out to 5+ lands too often.

There's a tension between hitting big bonfires and drawing enough gas in time, though. It's hard to say where the optimal count is. I'm going to try 22 for next week at 3 bonfires.

Not sure whether I should bring in the 4th pillar or helix to replace the land.

What 60? Still liking 3 BlOb?

[hamfactorial]

[deck]Creatures
3 Deathrite Shaman

Spells
3 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Bump in the Night
4 Pillar of Flame
3 Blind Obedience
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Spear
4 Skullcrack
4 Thunderbolt
2 Toil // Trouble
3 Warleader's Helix

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Sacred Foundry

Sideboard
1 Stensia Bloodhall
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Underworld Connections
1 Archwing Dragon
1 Slaughter Games
1 Warleader's Helix
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Staff of Nin
4 Terminus[/deck]

[Valdarith]

I'd probably go with a fourth Helix over a Pillar. The lifegain from the Helix is nice to have and since we're kind of a draw-go deck now it helps to have more significant late-game spells.

[hamfactorial]

I agree, I think helix is the better choice. I love seeing a helix on a draw step, where pillar can be disappointing.

[RDW]

[deck]Creatures
3 Deathrite Shaman

Spells
3 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Bump in the Night
4 Pillar of Flame
3 Blind Obedience
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Spear
4 Skullcrack
4 Thunderbolt
2 Toil // Trouble
3 Warleader's Helix

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Sacred Foundry

Sideboard
1 Stensia Bloodhall
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Underworld Connections
1 Archwing Dragon
1 Slaughter Games
1 Warleader's Helix
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Staff of Nin
4 Terminus[/deck]

3 BlOb still the sweet spot? It intuitively seems like too many, although the extort triggers do seen valuable. I guess it does give you help in the Aggro match-up. How
have the Terminus worked for you? I like the idea of them, but how do you actually win the Aggro match-up without DRS? You can't 1-for-1 the whole game and expect to win. Do you bring in a CA engine or the blood hall to grind them out?

[hamfactorial]

Aggro decks usually pack in removal, which DRS always eats. Swapping him with Terminus and bringing in the extra bonfire and land gives me lots of ways to grind out the aggro player.

You're right about not going 1 for 1, but sometimes I have to play control until I hit that bonfire and start to attack their life total directly.

3 BlOb still feels good, I rarely get 2 on the field. When I had 2 in the deck I'd go many games without seeing them. The extort triggers are money, and they give me incidental value against haste decks, giving me one more draw step to hit a terminus or bonfire.

[hamfactorial]

I'm thinking about sweepers lately and I want to try Killing Wave as a 1-of in the sideboard. I know that the "give them a choice" mechanic is bad, but it could do some work in the all-dudes Naya/Gruul matchup, maybe better than Terminus.

[RDW]

I ran your list at TNM last night. The BlOb triggers were very nice, but they and the Bonfires gummed up my draws. I often use FotF as a bad Arc Trail and you need to miracle a bonfire on turn 4 or hard cast it on 5 lands to have a similar effect. I understand that bonfire can put you back in games you have no business being in, but FotF--from my experience--lets you never feel out of it... I loved the Terminus tech, but may stick with FotF+Reckoner in 22 land builds. In 24 land builds, BotD+Terminus is still probably superior. I'm going back to small Dega for Friday unless someone has good big Dega results.

[hamfactorial]

Thanks for the testing feedback, RDW! Terminus is a pretty nice piece of tech, I wonder if it should just replace bonfire in the 22 land builds. It's certainly easier to hit [mana]W[/mana] on time and still leave mana open for extort triggers or EOT burn.

[RDW]

I think that's exactly where we want to be in an Aggro/creature-midrange meta, but going into an unknown meta or one with 1/5 or more control, I'd be wary of main deck blanks. At least BotD goes to the dome... Still speculative of either on 22 land...

[hamfactorial]

I've been goldfishing with 2 maindeck bonfires on 22 land and the draws have been better. I think 3 DRS / 3 BlOb might be too high, and a 3/2 split might be better. Not sure which I like more though.

[RDW]

That definitely sounds more reasonable. I'll LYK some testing results if I play your deck at all this weekend.

[deschain]

Ok, so I tried to fire Ham's list up in cockatrice, and my god the game 1 rage was... delicious. Well it was the internet after all. Some particularly awesome gems:
"Jesus do you have more burn?"
"Your deck is fucking terrible"
"good luck IRL w/ ur troll deck"
and LOTS of ragequits all around. If the deck was this fun to play in 'trice, then I'm sure it's going to be a ride IRL.
I had an opponent go revelation on my EoT, I skullcrack, he snapcasts revelation his turn, I skullcrack again, toil//trouble for a stupid sick amount. I had this stupid grin on my face the whole time.
Good job RDW, Ham for the excellent brew, I'm contemplating getting the requisite cards for it but I have high hopes for the deck in any case

[LP, of the Fires]

If I may suggesting something janky for the control matchup...Chandra? I think in boarded games, they can't deal with planeswalkers. Just +1 followed by twincasting anything seems big.

[hamfactorial]

LK, I love the idea of playing Chandra. I've had a playset of her for over a year with no deck to put her in.

I've been assuming that the control matchup is good enough as-is, so my sideboard is mostly anti-aggro with a bunch of "why not?" experimental cards.

I'll throw 2 of her in there and laugh maniacally.

[Valdarith]

Chandra seems like a huge deal in the control matchup. I'd definitely consider a couple in the side.

[RDW]

Chandra might actually find a home! She's a 4-mana threat against control for the 22-land decks. I think Assemble+Staff are better in 24-land decks, but Chandra's not a bad idea in these ones...

[RDW]

Alright, Guys. I'm heading to FNM tonight and--perhaps--States tomorrow. I've got 2(ish) burn decks in mind and want some assistance in picking 1:

[deck]Little Dega Burn[/deck]

Big one has land and BlOb instead of Vexing Devil, X spells a land a Staff instead of Reckless Waif, and Terminus instead of Reckoner. Which should I run?!

[hamfactorial]

It feels like little Dega is already very threat-dense. Does UC belong? It seems to be trying to get under the control decks by maximising damage per card. Perhaps T/T would be a better fit.

[RDW]

It feels like little Dega is already very threat-dense. Does UC belong? It seems to be trying to get under the control decks by maximising damage per card. Perhaps T/T would be a better fit.

That could very well be true. All I know is that I've never lost a game against control with an active UC.

[hamfactorial]

It's probably better than Staff in a 22 land build, to be fair.

[Valdarith]

I'd definitely maindeck one in a 22 land build.

[Link]

renounce the guilds over glaring spotlight for geist?

[RDW]

Took Dos Rakis to FNM, do nothin to report for the weekend. Will play test these ideas throughout the week.

[RDW]

I took Big Dega Burn (BDB) to Tuesday Night Magic this week to a 3-2 finish. Here is the exact 75 used for the tournament:

[deck]BDB[/deck]

Report to come. LVP: Bonfire of the Damned.

[hamfactorial]

Damn you, bonfire! Was it terrible against the field, or just terrible?

[RDW]

Damn you, bonfire! Was it terrible against the field, or just terrible?

I'll formalize my report momentarily, but--to summarize--it was miserable against my field, which was: Human Reanimator, BUG Delver, Esper Control, Naya Blitz, and Jund Midrange, which--surprisingly enough--represents the five major, contemporary archetypes. I like to preface this analysis by saying that, although my results come from a small sample size, I don't believe these claims to be result-driven, because I was able to both win with Bonfires of the Damned in-hand (blanks) and lose after miracled Bonfires of the Damned.

Round 1: Human Reanimator (1-2) He was playing both combos, so not sure where the concessions were made. He beat me down in both of the games he won.
n
Round 2: BUG Tempo (2-0) I killed his Delver of Secrets, Deathrite Shaman, and Duskmantle Seer the turns they resolved, then burned him out when he kept drawing Unsummon effects instead of threats.

Round 3: Esper Control (2-0) I played permission. As usual, control--even with Sphinx's Revelations--is a bye.

Round 4: Naya Blitz (1-2) Game 1 ended with me at 1 life after him tapping out for a Flinthoof Boar (shocking himself down to 7). I Deathrite Shaman'd, Warleader's Helix'd, and attacked with the DRS for the win. Game 2 I mulled to 5 (4?!) and almost got there because a miracled Terminus got a 4-for-1 for me. Game 3, I was scared of mulliganing because of the previous game, so I kept a hand with Sacred Foundry, Pillar of Flame, 3 Searing Spear, Skullcrack, and Warleader's Helix. Needless to say, I missed my second land for 5 turns and lost.

Round 5: Jund Midrange (2-0) I Skullcrack'd his Thragtusk and then beat him on my turn; I burned him down to 3 (me at 14) in response to a Sire
of Insanity trigger and drew a burn spell for the win.

Bonfire of the Damned is stupid in this deck. Theoretically--on 24 lands--it seemed like a strict upgrade from Flames of the Firebrand and I was totally on-board with that plan. It just isn't. I don't know how many games I drew an uncastable Bonfire of the Damned (openers, turn-1 draws, turn-4 draws on a missing land, etc.), where a Flames of the Firebrand would have been amazing. There were several times when I was on 5-6 lands and a miracled Bonfire of the Damned would just flat-out win me the game, but I don't like the feeling of being behind the whole damned game. We really need removal on turn 3 and Bonfire of the Damned just isn't flexible enough to fulfill that role--miracled or hardcast it gives a 1-1-1 Flames of the Firebrand effect, when often I like to use Flames of the Firebrand as a bad Arc Trail. Later in the game, it can provide blow-outs, but this deck is underpowered as it is. We need consistency
and redundancy.

Terminus and Underworld Connections, however, were all-stars. I think I got two attack-step Terminuses and damn does that feel good. It does the same thing as Bonfire of the Damned for ONE WHITE MANA. Not to mention it deals with Reckoner, Lotleth Troll, Geralf's Messenger, Voice of Resurgance, and any creature in reanimator with infinitely more efficiency. It's a blank in the control match-up, but I think we can afford it now, honestly. I'm probably going to revert to the threat-dense 22-land version with 4 Flames of the Firebrand instead of Bonfires of the Damned and 2 Terminus instead of 2 lands, and see how that goes. I'll test from there.

Anyone else have some input from recent testing?

[hamfactorial]

My experience with Terminus matches yours, and I think you're right about bonfire. Occasionally it's amazing, but sometimes it's a super expensive rolling temblor.

I'm going to play in tomorrow night's tournament, so I'll have better testing data.

[RDW]

Thank you, Ham, for all of your input. Perhaps the deck (as mentioned above) could have 2 real Rolling Tremblor in the sideboard to bring in alongside the Terminuses and Flames of the Firebrand. Not quite sure what to alter, but I think this deck can become competitive.

[hamfactorial]

I think that the big mana version (I run 23) could or should have some number of Devil's Play or Divine Deflection. I'm particularly excited about DD in the aggro matchup because it can function as direct damage and removal with life gain tacked on.

[Link]

Terminus in the burn deck?

Oh. my. god.

What monster are you guys creating.

(please don't run terminus its a bad card I swear. PLEASE DONT MIRACLE TERMINUS BONFIRE SO GOOD IT KILLS ME AND MY BOARD RITEE???? T___T)

[hamfactorial]

Fate, we love you but hate your d00dz. We like them under your library.

[Kazekirimaru]

Would Toil // Trouble do work here?

[hamfactorial]

Yes, T//T and Underworld Connections occupy the same slot depending on your land count. We've talked about it on page 2, I think.

[RDW]

Fate, we love you but hate your d00dz. We like them under your library.

Absolutely this. We don't want creatures dead or to take Boros Reckoner triggers; we want the field empty. If we can't establish board presence, we certainly can't allow it from our opposition.

In regards to Toil//Trouble, it's been mentioned before and I see its merit. I just haven't been able to fool with it at all. Perhaps I could use them in lieu of Underworld Connections in the faster deck. Not terribly sure.

[Valdarith]

Once you've played Toil / Trouble you'll never go back.

Seriously. It's that good.

[Kazekirimaru]

That's a nice Sphinx's Revelation you got there. It'd be a shame if I had a card that translated card advantage into damage or something.

[RDW]

I'll test T//T when I next run this beast.