[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[redthirst]

Regarding Dos Rakis, photo - I'm currently playing it and it's doing just fine... the secret was having a trasformational SB plan that turns you into a more midrange deck.

[redthirst]

Oh, and more dragons.

The secret is always more dragons.

[lorddax]

Thats the true challenge of the ham challenge, avoiding VD.

[photodyer]

The R/x forum is where I go to make myself feel better when I start doubting myself as a magic player because I know I could never be as bad as those scrubs. Plus Z's rants/insults/cold, hard truths make me laugh.

My head gets bent both ways...part of me wants to look at the game with the seriousness of chess and learn to play the best cards and the tightest game. But there's another side of me that really likes trying to make janky,
off-the-wall stuff work using some of the more flavorful cards. The word "game" has this whole continuum of meaning and I often am at odds with myself over where I want to be on that curve.

The difference is that you wouldn't go into the Proven Competitive sub to create a thread about your new janky fun cards just like I wouldn't go into someone's thread about their "fun" theme deck to tell them how uncompetitive it'd be in a tournament.

I don't know if everyone would necessarily agree with you there, my friend...looking back, I've made some pretty dubious--read downright clueless--suggestions on occasion. I can say with without question that my understanding and appreciation for the finer points of the game have skyrocketed since I stumbled upon Z's primer and our brotherhood, but I'm still a dough-head at times. Ask Alex...he patiently spent half the day yesterday helping me wrap my head around why BlOb has no place in an aggro deck
and the strategic vs. philosophic disconnects therein.

[photodyer]

Oh, and more dragons.

The secret is always more dragons.

I should have been more specific...it just isn't viable at our LGS because it's been hated out pretty hard (the folks who like to win all the time took exception to our bumping them). The past few times windstrider or I have tried to get it rolling we've fallen pretty hard to all the midrange. Then again, I may just be sucking wind.

What's your 75 look like at this point?

[TubeHunter]

Thing is, I'm not really irritated by him, mostly beacuase I know that If I didn't find you guys, then I would've been like him, posting primers and bad card disscussion simply beacause I wouldn't know that I wasn't competent enough to do that sort of thing.

So, thank you guys, for saving me from a long period of mediocrity.

[Alex]

The thing that bends a lot of people's heads (mine for sure) I think is that many cards have a (my word of the day) continuum of potential. In a given meta, they can be fantastic, but then as the meta changes they are unplayable. That's hard to swallow sometimes, especially with cards/archetypes in which someone has a significant financial and/or emotional investment. Hell, zeman won a TNMO last year playing VD in a burn deck...but it's hard for people to conceptualize that in the current Standard that same concept is not viable. I know I get that kind of tunnel vision...it drives me nuts that Dos Rakis isn't viable since GTC because I LIKE the deck. And I get flat-out pissed when there are cards I like that I just can't make work competitively...it's hard
not to take personally.

tl;dr: I really want to play Blind Obedience.

Don't let James and I dissuade you if you think it's the right call. We're going to tell you that it isn't, but if it works for you feel free to prove us wrong.

[redthirst]

What's your 75 look like at this point?

[deck]Creatures: 28
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Stonewright
4 Ash Zealot
4 Lightning Mauler
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Thundermaw Hellkite

Spells: 8
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear

Lands: 24
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Cavern of Souls
10 Mountain

Sideboard: 15
4 Dreadbore
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Rakdos's Return
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Frostburn Weird
1 Boros Reckoner[/deck]

The MD is fast enough to punish slow starts and decks that aren't pre-SBed for Aggro while still being versatile enough to play defense or slow-roll a win.

The SB is made to transform the deck into a precision instrument designed to destroy anything.

nAggro: -4 Stromkirk, -4 Cackler, -2 Stonewright, -2 Mauler; +4 Dreadbore, +3 Mortars, +2 Olivia, +2 Frostburn, +1 Reckoner

Midrange: -4 Stromkirk, -4 Cackler, -4 Pillar; +4 Dreadbore, +3 Mortars, +2 Olivia, +2 Return, +1 Reckoner

Control: -4 Pillar, -3 Reckoner; + 4 Dreadbore, +3 Return

Tempo: -4 Pillar, -4 Stromkirk; +2 Olivia, +2 Frostburn, +3 Return, +1 Reckoner

Reanimator: -4 Pillar, +4 Dreadbore

[TubeHunter]

Ash Zealot or Vexing Devil which is better?


iquit

[redthirst]

One's a 2/2 and the other's a 4/3.

That wouldn't even be close if they were both 2cc - with VD at one it's a no-brainer.

[Valdarith]

Regarding VD in the 18 land Gruul Sligh deck: if it's going to be good in Aggro, that's where it'll see play - a deck that cares about nothing past a turn 3-4 win.

The guy I was playing was running it alongside 4 Hound of Griselbrand.

[photodyer]

The thing that bends a lot of people's heads (mine for sure) I think is that many cards have a (my word of the day) continuum of potential. In a given meta, they can be fantastic, but then as the meta changes they are unplayable. That's hard to swallow sometimes, especially with cards/archetypes in which someone has a significant financial and/or emotional investment. Hell, zeman won a TNMO last year playing VD in a burn deck...but it's hard for people to conceptualize that in the current Standard that same concept is not viable. I know I get that kind of tunnel vision...it drives me nuts that Dos Rakis isn't
viable since GTC because I LIKE the deck. And I get flat-out pissed when there are cards I like that I just can't make work competitively...it's hard not to take personally.

tl;dr: I really want to play Blind Obedience.

Don't let James and I dissuade you if you think it's the right call. We're going to tell you that it isn't, but if it works for you feel free to prove us wrong.

Actually, that's really not it, Alex. It's not that I "want" to play BlOb as I'm not invested in the card, but rather that it truly seemed to make mathematical sense to do so. I was (and still am, though less so with thanks to you) struggling with a disconnect between turn-by-turn goldfish math and threat density. I can see that the card is not being played in aggro strategies, but the pure math-head in me gets hung up in the damage "best-case" compared to "average". The card is conditionally good in certain MU's--such as high-burn UWr vs. Dos
Rakis where it allows them to mitigate haste damage and remove our threats, but I am working on the realization that threat density and having an "active" card in an aggro deck is statistically the correct thing to do.

I finally realized the piece I was letting myself miss--that having BlOb in the deck creates a source of variance. Stick it on turn 2 and curve out, it does great work; miss it in the early game then top-deck it...not so much. I'm from there making the connect to the fact that it instead makes sense to play active threats that have falter abilities while still being threats in and of themselves. Given that realization, I have less hope for the viability of a red-biased haste deck...but I will put it through the gauntlet to see if I'm truly learning anything. Ironically, BlOb may start to show up in SB's again post-DGM to hose the haste strategy.

[rcwraspy]

Just found this flavor text on a new Dragon's Maze card (Murmuring Phantasm) and thought it was applicable to that R/G Gruul Sligh thread:

"The most insidious thing in the world is nonsense that sounds just plausible enough to listen to."
-Lasav

EDIT: The game itself is telling them to STFU

[TubeHunter]

Anywho, what does everyone think of the new sig? A bit small, but I find it works.

[rcwraspy]

Anywho, what does everyone think of the new sig? A bit small, but I find it works.

Did you mean "Safety?"

Overall I like it!

[TubeHunter]

ah shit, Back to the editor.

Spelling is not my strong suit.

[redthirst]

Just found this flavor text on a new Dragon's Maze card (Murmuring Phantasm) and thought it was applicable to that R/G Gruul Sligh thread:

"The most insidious thing in the world is nonsense that sounds just plausible enough to listen to."
-Lasav

EDIT: The game itself is telling them to STFU

Extremely appropriate.

[redthirst]

Also, I think I very eloquently told S_A to stfu and gtfo.

It was quite genteel.

[rcwraspy]

So apparently a huge member also provides eloquence.

[Valdarith]

Also, I think I very eloquently told S_A to stfu and gtfo.

It was quite genteel.

About as genteel as you will ever get from Mr. redthrist.

[redthirst]

That, my friends, is how it's done in the finer houses.

[Link]

Seems like all the variants are just having better success with a midrange transformational SB.

Sligh just isn't cutting it anymore, way too much hate.

I feel pretty dumb at times too Photo, which is why I'm grateful that we have minds like Zem and Red to put us in line and say "you're fucking wrong, this is what's right" to learn from.

Whereas in MTGS its just a coddled enviroment where the stupid just grows on itself and supports other stupid until you just have a mountain of stupid.


@Red's DR list:
I agree with everything but... why +Dreadbores against control? I know its a broad archetype (i.e. I could see dreadboring Garruk's but not Jace's), but it doesn't actually kill them? Have you tried FB weird against Control? I've seen esper's forced to wrath a weird just because swinging for 4/1 each turn is actually decent enough pressure.

[Link]

I should say all variants except Boros, which Alex just starts off as sexy and continues to be sexy with little transforming needed.

[redthirst]

Dreadbore is already in the board for almost every other MU and I consider it a definite step up from Pillar against Control since it kills the permanents that help them stabilize against me.

The substitution is a no-brainer IMO.

[redthirst]

Don't get me wrong, it's not OMG incredible or anything, but it can kill Augur, Resto, and Jace without help - which I consider that more important in that MU than possibly doing 2 damage.

[rcwraspy]

Falkenrath Aristocrat before rotation: dump or keep?

As far as I know she doesn't see any eternal play, is that correct?

[rcwraspy]

Don't get me wrong, it's not OMG incredible or anything, but it can kill Augur, Resto, and Jace without help - which I consider that more important in that MU than possibly doing 2 damage.

Absolutely. You need to clear their blockade. You have enough threat density in creatures for killing damage.

[Alex]

Falkenrath Aristocrat before rotation: dump or keep?

As far as I know she doesn't see any eternal play, is that correct?

Dump them, sooner rather than later.

[rcwraspy]

Falkenrath Aristocrat before rotation: dump or keep?

As far as I know she doesn't see any eternal play, is that correct?

Dump them, sooner rather than later.

That's what I thought. Thanks!

[Self Medicated]

Rotation happens when the first set of the new block releases, right?

[hamfactorial]

Yes, so you'll still get to use them with M14 for a short time.

[Kazekirimaru]

I hate rotations. It's like a game. "How long can I hold onto these cards before their value equates to ocean sediment?"

I pretty much stop buying rotate-imminent cards at this point. Or at least I should...

[hamfactorial]

I got my aristocrats at $3 each so I'm just going to keep them and continue crushing nerds with RakHammer until rotation. That deck has more than paid for itself at this point.

[redthirst]

It's a good time to sell the cards you're not using that aren't seeing eternal play, but I'd hold on to anything that you are using - you'll still get another 6 months out of them.

[Link]

Don't get me wrong, it's not OMG incredible or anything, but it can kill Augur, Resto, and Jace without help - which I consider that more important in that MU than possibly doing 2 damage.

oh yeah over pillar definitely. Its just the only choice out of your plans that wasn't a no-brainer to me and I wanted you to elaborate on, so thanks.

[Kazekirimaru]

Is Modern Hate Bears enough reason to keep Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, I wonder?

Purely from a value standpoint.

[redthirst]

Thalia's only worth like $5, right?

I don't see that price coming down too much considering it's a pretty good little bear in Modern.

[redthirst]

So the Valarin guy just got a month's suspension on Sally for being "disruptive".

[redthirst]

Kind of makes you wonder how we lasted as long as we did...

[TubeHunter]

Welp, got my fact that I can't spell out of my sig!