[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[zemanjaski]

Azoruis Champ probably. Rakdos if you can get it at a really good price ~ it doesn't seem as good as Hellrider or Aristocrat ~ although both of those were heinously undervalued for a while.

[LP, of the Fires]

I think the rakdos champ is a safe bet to get simply because it should be REALLY good in block and post innistrad.

[Dane]

Rakdos champ is sitting at $4.00...I think I'm willing to pay that.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah, grab a playset at that price. If she ever spikes, you'll come out pretty far ahead.

*inset fond memories of $1 hellriders spiking to $13*

[photodyer]

Finally looked at some of the spoiled DGM cards. Why does rakdos get a card that won't be relevant till all our other good 4 drops rotate but azorius gets broken ass mass detain? Da faq.

My guess is that the detain guy will be unplayable in standard but be pretty cool in
Modern for tapout lists. So hey, be happy!

If by "unplayable" you mean shoehorned into every Bant and UW midrange deck at my LGS for the express purpose of shutting the aggro players down, then yes, she is by all means unplayable. Seriously...she dodges all burn and comes underneath Selesnya Charm, and her ETB totally locks down any aggro deck. Compare it to Hellkite...he now looks like a little salamander in relation to board impact. Even decks running black removal are going to suffer the tempo loss since her ETB will trigger as long as she resolves. The card gives aggro two flying middle fingers...it's just wrong. Thanks to it, we will have to endure another 2nd half of the season dominated by midrange and UWx...unless by some slim chance they print a foil.

Sorry, Alex; I know you know competitive Magic one hell of a lot better than I, but this is another Kor Firewalker-esque slap in the face to aggro and it shouldn't have happened.[/
quote]
This card does nothing to aggressive players because it doesn't even come down before turn 4 and by then an aggro player already has you towards the end of the clock.

Maybe if she cost 5 I'd feel differently since she slams down off of a single Farseek, but at 6 I say "Eh."

Alex--3WU is 5, which in Bant means she will see T4 often enough if they want her to. Between Farseek, Blind Obedience, Supreme Verdict, Resto and Lavinia, aggro can be shut down by Bant colors pretty handily. I realize that the whole meta will do some shifting about, but the card is an overt slap in the face that's OP. Take the the Witch in comparison-she potentiates the Rakdos "all in" aggressive plan, but her abilities only work forward from when she comes down, not backward. That's balance from a guild that isn't supposed to be about balance. Lavinia hits to flatten everything that came before her to the ground, then can be blinked to do the same over and again.
Play the cards I mentioned + Thragtusk + AoS or Drosgol Reaver...we're talking a Bant-flavored Jund. I just find it really scary from an aggro standpoint.

Of course, I again recognize that ultimately all will depend on the meta as a whole and whether Bant will have the legs to topple Reanimator and whoever else is vying for top deck. I just detest the idea that a single card can take such a massive swing at crippling an entire archetype.

[Jack]

Finally looked at some of the spoiled DGM cards. Why does rakdos get a card that won't be relevant till all our other good 4 drops
rotate but azorius gets broken ass mass detain? Da faq.

My guess is that the detain guy will be unplayable in standard but be pretty cool in Modern for tapout lists. So hey, be happy!

If by "unplayable" you mean shoehorned into every Bant and UW midrange deck at my LGS for the express purpose of shutting the aggro players down, then yes, she is by all means unplayable. Seriously...she dodges all burn and comes underneath Selesnya Charm, and her ETB totally locks down any aggro deck. Compare it to Hellkite...he now looks like a little salamander in relation to board impact. Even decks running black removal are going to suffer the tempo loss since her ETB will trigger as long as she resolves. The card gives aggro two flying middle fingers...it's just wrong. Thanks to it, we will have to endure another 2nd half of the season dominated by midrange and UWx...unless by some slim chance they print a foil.

Sorry, Alex; I know you know competitive Magic one
hell of a lot better than I, but this is another Kor Firewalker-esque slap in the face to aggro and it shouldn't have happened.

This card does nothing to aggressive players because it doesn't even come down before turn 4 and by then an aggro player already has you towards the end of the clock.

Maybe if she cost 5 I'd feel differently since she slams down off of a single Farseek, but at 6 I say "Eh."

Alex--3WU is 5 last I checked. Between Farseek, Blind Obedience, Supreme Verdict and Lavinia, aggro can be shut down in Bant colors with ease.

Holy shit...We're looking at one hell of a turbofog deck

[Helios]

It's also worth noting that Ruric, Excava, and presumably Lavinia will be intro-pack rares.

Which is not to say that they are bad buys, at all. Hellrider was intro pack too.

[zemanjaski]

A lot of paid writers said Hellrider was bad

[Dane]

Yeah, I heard they were going to be intro pack rares...but I completely spaced it.

I wonder how prices will hold up now...

[Helios]

A lot of paid writers said Hellrider was bad

A lot of paid writers are idiots.

[LP, of the Fires]

So Alex's updated boros midrange deck is actually just the shit. Beating people with 2 stonewrights, 2 goblin tokens, and a boros charm like they're chumps. Slayer's stronghold and some hadokens go a long way. As Kibler would say:

Honest man, honest creatures.

[Helios]

So Alex's updated boros midrange deck is actually just the shit. Beating people with 2 stonewrights, 2 goblin tokens, and a boros charm like they're chumps. Slayer's stronghold and some hadokens go a long way. As Kibler would say:

Honest man, honest creatures.

That deck looks disgustingly strong. Looks like it solves some of the issues we're having with AIR.

[Kazekirimaru]

Why does Stonewright = Hadouken, exactly?

[Dodger]

I have to imagine the Rakdos champ will be a $1-2 rare at first, because it's just not getting playyed until Olivia and Aristocrat rotate. Then it will jump. I was thinking of getting a playset o fLavinia right away, but if she's an intro deck rare she might not explode in price at first. Hmmm

[Alex]

Alex--3WU is 5

You're right, I don't know how to read.

Even so, I really don't think this card is as strong as you guys think it is. There have been cards that are aggro hosers in the meta for a while that people aren't playing. Why? Because aggro isn't inherently strong right now anyway, and no matter what you do, if they draw nuts they'll win, and if they don't you'll probably beat them.

It might see some play in the Verdant Haven lists though, because flashing it down during an opponent's upkeep is pretty sweet value.

[zemanjaski]

Why does Stonewright = Hadouken, exactly?

You're kidding right?

If it is easier, think of him as having Devil Fruit powers.

[Kazekirimaru]

Why does Stonewright = Hadouken, exactly?

You're kidding right?

If it is easier, think of him as having Devil Fruit powers.

I feel like that's a One Piece reference, though I haven't the foggiest.

Speak to me like because I am stupid.

[Alex]

Why does Stonewright = Hadouken, exactly?

You're kidding right?

If it is easier, think of him as having Devil Fruit powers.

I always think of him in my head as the Darkling from Dokapon Kingdom.



...actually holy crap I should get that as an alter.

[Calamity]

So Alex's updated boros midrange deck is actually just the shit. Beating people with 2 stonewrights, 2 goblin tokens, and a boros charm like they're chumps. Slayer's stronghold and some hadokens go a long way. As Kibler would say:

Honest man, honest creatures.

I really want to play this deck but lack the 80 dollars required to purchase resto angels

so i'm stuck playing all in red lol. hope my meta isnt' too hostile to it

[Alex]

Restoration Angel is twenty bucks now? Geez, glad I bought my playsets when they were still promos that people were trading away at like $8 value..

[Kazekirimaru]

Restoration Angel is twenty bucks now? Geez, glad I bought my playsets when they were still promos that people were trading away at like $8 value..

I only now just realized that that Sherlock emoticon is your signature and not just an add on in every post you make.

It's odd how it just kind of fits in everywhere, though. Otherwise I'd have questioned it before now.

[Alex]

Also this list 4-0'd yesterday, and I'm shocked because the deck seems a little...ambitious with its mana.

[deck]Creatures (36)
4 Boros Elite
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Frontline Medic
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Spells (4)
4 Searing Spear

Mana (20)
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
2 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden

Sideboard (15)
4 Boros Charm
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Gruul Charm
3 Mark of Mutiny
2 Pacifism
2 Selesnya Charm
[/deck]

[Dane]

Is Resto seeing any non-standard play?

If not...I ought to sell mine off soon...then rebuy them after they drop.

Actually, I wonder if I could find anyone to loan me a few. I'll short sell Restos.

[LP, of the Fires]

Also this list 4-0'd yesterday, and I'm shocked because the deck seems a little...ambitious with its mana.

[deck]Creatures (36)
4 Boros Elite
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Frontline Medic
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Spells (4)
4 Searing Spear

Mana (20)
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
2 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden

Sideboard (15)
4 Boros Charm
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Gruul Charm
3 Mark of Mutiny
2 Pacifism
2 Selesnya Charm
[/deck]

That's actually a fairly stock list and is what I use in my gauntlet for Blitz Humans.
The only difference in the main from the GP winning list is Thalia vs Giant Growth which I have in my test gauntlet. The deck is basically kuldotha red with a powerlevel more similar to that of affinity. Lots of turn 3.5 and 4 wins.

[zemanjaski]

I miss Kuldotha Red

[Helios]

Maybe one day we can have good things again

[LP, of the Fires]

I'll happily cast boros charms over here.

[Helios]

I saw this over on Sally: VD + the new Golgari guy. Make 'em regret taking that 4 Probably not good at all, but effin hilarious.

I'll happily cast boros charms over here.

Seems good

[zemanjaski]

^ That is actually pretty good honestly.

Is there any way to turbo out Sire of Insanity? It soft-combos with the new mini-confidant as well. If you've only got 1 card a turn to kill it, there is a good chance that you won't, and it beats in for 6 a turn.

[Alex]

Is Resto seeing any non-standard play?

If not...I ought to sell mine off soon...then rebuy them after they drop.

Actually, I wonder if I could find anyone to loan me a few. I'll short sell Restos.

It's played a buttload in Modern. It's probably played more in Modern than it is in Standard right now. With the exception of bant I think my deck is like the only one playing it as a 4of.

[Platypus]

Platypus: The PM wouldn't let me send this through, so I'm posting here for everyone to critique.
Alrighty, the Meta explanations.

Metagame Decks

---

Jund: Should be a straightforward win. Most of the losses are when a questionable hand is kept, and then ripped by discard. Post-sideboard, it's still a good match-up. Jund is reasonably fair, so the only way they can deal with you is if they get a Deathrite Shaman live, or manage to rip your hand apart.

UR Delver: Reasonably good match-up, they're a Burn deck with less burn so they can run counterspells. You should be able to abuse the fact that they run two colours, so you get to keep cards like Price of Progress game 2+3.
Kill any Delver of Secrets in play, and you should be fine. Use your sorceries first, and make sure to keep 2 Mountains untapped in case of their Chain Lightning. Be wary of them doing the same.

Mono-R Burn: If you're the better player, or if the opponent takes a lot of damage from fetches, then you should win. Knowledge of Stack interactions is crucial, and tread carefully. A critical point in this match-up is when either player is on 10 or less. You can basically die to stack resolution or running out of gas. Like UR Delver, use your sorceries first, and make sure to keep 2 Mountains untapped in case of their Chain Lightning. Be wary of them doing the same.

Fish: Even to slightly favoured. There are games where you get wrecked by Hymn to Tourach into Liliana of the Veil, but
for the most part, you should be fine with a more creature centric build than what I run. If this is the Merfolk type of Fish, the match-up is much more favoured. Just burn their threats, and keep enough behind to dome them.

Junk: Reasonably favoured match-up. Like Jund, the only way you lose game 1 is if they manage to get a live Deathrite Shaman or Liliana of the Veil. Dark Confidant is a card you should kill if they're high on life, and leave be if they're low on life.

UB Reanimator: Bad to unwinnable match-up Game 1, make sure to side in Faerie Macabre. Wait until they've chosen their target, but not resolved the spell; then you can pull the trigger on Faerie Macabre. Too early, and they just reanimate Faerie Macabre. If this version of Reanimator runs Forece of will/
Daze, then Vexing Shusher is ok.

Death & Taxes: Match-up is quite favourable. Being able to deal with most of their creatures while racing them is quite nice. If you keep a slow hand, you do lose to Mangara of Condor shenanigans. Get rid of any Mother of Runes and other threat creatures when they come out, and you can survive the rest.

Robots: Somewhat bad match-up Game 1, could be ok games 2+3 depending on sideboard. Trinisphere and other cards like it are bad news for you. 3-4 Smash to Smithereens can help the match-up, although Chalice of the Void can be awkward to play around.

Esper Control: Match-up is fine if you have a strong hand, unfavourable otherwise. The ability for Price of Progress to run wild is always a nice feature, but most of
the time, you'll have to try and counter their Stoneforge Mystics with removal. If you can start racing them, do so before Batterskull ruins your day.

High Tide Storm: High Tide has a slightly quicker clock than you, so there will be games where you just lose. However, you can kill them when they have Brainfreeze or X-draw spell on the stack. If you see them untapped, wait until they attempt to go off. This is when they tap out for Time Spiral. Game 2, side in cards like Red Elemental Blast, and point at their Time Spirals.

BUG Control: Reasonably favourable match-up for the first few turns, you can just lose to multiple discard effects, backed up by a counter on your Price of Progress. If you can race them before Tarmogoyf is live, or [card:
40gmj9oq]Tombstalker[/card] is active, then you should be fine.

Maverick: Pretty easy match-up. Deal with any problem creatures, and win with Burn spells to the dome. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben can get quite awkward, as well as Scavenging Ooze if they [card]Green Sun's Zenith[/card] for it. Most of their creatures aren't a problem, and you should be able to win off of swinging with 1-2 creatures. Knight of the Reliquary is a bit of a problem for you though.

UW Miracles: Quite a bad match-up. If the Miracles player also has included Rest in Peace+energy Field+Helm of Awakening, you just lose. The only way you can win is if you can race before they stabilize with Counterflux+[card]Sensei's Divining Top[/card]. A few [card:
40gmj9oq]Vexing Shusher[/card] does help this match-up, but it's not one that you can win often.

Show and Tell: About as bad as UW Miracles. You have to hope that they whiff a little bit with their Show and Tell target. If they manage to drop a threat before you can race them the turn after, then you lose. Also, if they drop Omniscience, you lose as well. Post-sideboard, being able to use Red Elemental Blast can help a little, but it still is an awkward match.

RUG Midrange: I haven't had much experience with RUG Midrange. I will assume that if you don't race them, cards like Thrun, the Last Troll will ruin your day.

Let me know if I've missed anything, as well as if you want me to help test some of these decks against your Burn deck. I think I wrote a comprehensive list, although I will jump on the Mumble server to explain some Burn
play while I playtest if you want.

I can't thank you enough for this. I'm quite lost in the Legacy metagame at the moment, so this really helps a lot. Now I have to familiarize myself with the various deck lists some more, so I can recognize them. The UW Miracles list that won packed Rest in Peace, Energy Field, and Helm of Obedience (that's the card you meant right? And Counterbalance instead of Counterflux, I guess?), and the RUG Midrange (assuming the decklist I saw was that one) didn't pack Thrun. It would have been nice to know the local mono-red burn deck and how it placed, but I only got info on the top 4. I didn't manage to get any Vexing Shushers from my friend, so I have to see if I can borrow some at the tournament. I did get Faerie Macabres though, so those will go in the SB instead of the Crypts.

I will probably mess up my plays badly, but I can work with the information you gave me and perhaps do a little better than I would've going in blindly. So, thanks once
again for this.

And thanks for the playtest offer. It's up to you if you want to do it, but I don't think I can participate or listen in on any explanations as my free time is limited and I guess we live in very different time zones (UTC+2 for me). So it would be hard to set up.

[redthirst]

Blood Scrivener

*SWOON!

[Christen]

Blood Scrivener is everything a red deck wants.

Also, Turn and Burn is appealing to me...

[Sasky]

It's almost like a bob. A bob that wants to do nothing but melt faces off.

[redthirst]

I don't think it'll do much in Dos Rakis unless we make it a more "all-in" deck, but in Golgari Zombies? Oh God yes.

That 3 drop Golgari Troll dude goes right in there too.

[photodyer]

I don't think it'll do much in Dos Rakis unless we make it a more "all-in" deck, but in Golgari Zombies? Oh God yes.

That 3 drop Golgari Troll dude goes right in there too.

Just my point over in the spoiler thread about Scrivener + Varolz in Jund or Junk Zombies...Discard your hand to pump loltroll, draw extra cards to keep feeding and hitting land drops, scavenge onto lol to make him a regenerable behemoth, then swing for a bazillion trample. Then, assuming a deck built to abuse it, cast Immortal Servitude and swarm.

Serious geek woody over this...

[Khaospawn]

Could Blood Scrivener possibly replace KoI in Dos Rakis? Thoughts?

[redthirst]

Real simple trial deck to test the viability of the new guys:

[deck]Creatures: 27
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Varloz, the Scar-Striped

Spells: 11
4 Tragic Slip
4 Rancor
3 Abrupt Decay

Lands: 22
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Golgari Guildgate
4 Cavern of Souls
8 Swamp[/deck]

I think I'll proxy this up and test it out tomorrow to see how it plays. Any feedback from just looking at the list before I do?

[Khaospawn]

Looks solid. I like it.

[redthirst]

Could Blood Scrivener possibly replace KoI in Dos Rakis? Thoughts?

Unless you severely cut the curve on Dos Rakis, I don't think it has a place.

I don't often just vomit my hand on the table so when I find myself in topdeck mode it's because my opponent has answers to all my threats - and in that scenario a 2/1 with no protection isn't going to last very long.

I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think you want to risk being completely blown out to maybe get some incremental CA with your very fragile dude.

The only way I see this guy working is in a deck that can vomit all its guys on the table and still "protect" them with things like Regen, Undying, and GY shenanigans.