Secret Santa Mafia - Game Over - A Coal Filled Stocking

[imopen2]

Tordeck
Red

[Manders]

soeveryone thinks you're scummy, tordeck. and yet, only two votes for you. what do you make of that?

Bit premature for the highlighted. Who are your top 2 picks for scum?

Count so far:
Manders- NightArcher; Pedrobear
RedNihilist- Pedrobear; Tordeck
Pedrobear- Tordeck; NightArcher
NightArcher- RedNihilist; Tordeck

Yet to chime in:
rezombad
imopen2
Tordeck

Vote Tordeck because mass claiming at this stage would be dumb

Unvote
Vote Tordeck

Time to have you participate in the conversation as well.

Topdeck
Night_Archer

Top picks for scum:
RedNihilist
Tordeck

Welp, sorry that 4 =/= "everyone." I was exaggerating (and also counted red twice in my head)

The point was that 3 (actually 2) people had him down on their "top 2 scum" list, and were not voting him or pressuring him. Thought he might want to address that

Fair enough.

[Manders]

Final count:

Manders- NightArcher; Pedrobear
RedNihilist- Pedrobear; Tordeck
Pedrobear- Tordeck; NightArcher
NightArcher- RedNihilist; Tordeck / imopen2; Tordeck
rezombad- RedNihilist; Tordeck
Tordeck- RedNihilist; NightArcher
imopen2- Tordeck; RedNihilist

So, I did this because I intended to put numbers to places and such, to see who's the scummiest of the scum in our minds. The first person listed by everyone gets 2 points and the second gets 1. Doing this, we have:

NightArcher - 2+1+1 = 4
Pedrobear - 1+2 = 3
Tordeck - 1+2+1+1+2 = 7
RedNihilist - 2+2+2+1 = 7
rezombad - 0
imopen2 - 0
Manders - 0

(NightArcher; I did not count your second set, though I made note of it, obviously. I'm going by first instincts here and yours said Red/Tor.)

SO...given this information, I would like those who chose RedNihilist or Tordeck for either spot to explain why.

Also, I know it's the weekend and people are busy, but please try to check in over the weekend. We're on a limited time frame.

[rezombad]

Tordecks two were me and nightarcher after his ebwodp.

[Pedrobear]

I'm currently more leaning torward Tordeck as a mass claim and scum baiting doesn't feel the best way to win a game.

Just repeating myself but my position hasn't changed since.

[Tordeck]

You math logic is also flawed there Manders as you asked for a Top 2, not a Top 2 in order.

Fixing the math the counts are.

Night - 3
Pedro - 2
Me - 5
Open - 1
Red - 2
Rez - 1

So cool I'm in first. That's typical for me as I am always scummy, especially Day 1.

Take that into account though and we see a bit deeper. Look to the first to say no to the mass claim and why. Then look to the sheeple that just threw votes my way for no reason or substance. Its that 2nd group that I would scrutinize more.

Think about this as well. Especially anyone that knows me from my game history on Sally. I am a major opponent to D1 massclaims, as attempting to break the setup is not actually playing mafia, so there has to be a reason why I of all people would propose doing so. A reason deeper than than the obvious. Think on that a moment. Then tell me if you still think I am scum.

[NightArcher]

Look to the first to say no to the mass claim and why. Then look to the sheeple that just threw votes my way for no reason or substance. Its that 2nd group that I would scrutinize more.

While I would agree that people who jump on a bandwagon without reason definitely bleed scummy, this entire excercise was framed as accusations without reason. I chose you (and remained firm in my choice) because you haven't posted much, you suggested a divisive action (whether good or bad), and the posts you have made have been largely devoid of content.

Think about this as well. Especially anyone that knows me from my game history on Sally. I am a major opponent to D1 massclaims, as attempting to break the setup is not actually playing mafia, so there has to be a reason why I of all people would propose doing so. A reason deeper than than the obvious. Think on that a moment. Then tell me if you still think I am scum.

I actually agree with this reasoning, considering the circumstances of this game where anyone could potentially have vital information. Mind you, it could potentially be a double edged sword (although this is pretty WIFOMey)

[rezombad]

I'm currently more leaning torward Tordeck as a mass claim and scum baiting doesn't feel the best way to win a game.

Just repeating myself but my position hasn't changed since.

Do you not see the point of a mass claim?

If you do, why do you think he is scum for that?

[Manders]

You math logic is also flawed there Manders as you asked for a Top 2, not a Top 2 in order.

I didn't ask for that, but it's human nature, when asked for such a list, to consider your most suspicious first, then your second, and list them as such. So it's safe to say that most, if not all, people did as I'd been looking for without even realizing they were.

Fixing the math the counts are.

Night - 3
Pedro - 2
Me - 5
Open - 1
Red - 2
Rez - 1

I'm assuming this all came up in the first place because you did not do as I'd presumed, so why are you assuming no one else did? You didn't ask anyone else to confirm their order of scumminess.

So cool I'm in first. That's typical for me as I am always scummy, especially Day 1.

Take that into account though and we see a bit deeper. Look to the first to say no to the mass claim and why. Then look to the sheeple that just threw votes my way for no reason or substance. Its that 2nd group that I would scrutinize more.

Think about this as well. Especially anyone that knows me from my game history on Sally. I am a major opponent to D1 massclaims, as attempting to break the setup is not actually playing mafia, so there has to be a reason why I of all people would propose doing so. A reason deeper than than the obvious. Think on that a moment. Then tell me if you still think I am scum.

Minimizing the validity of the case against you noted. WIFOM noted.

Yeah, I know you're highly against D1 massclaims and wondered why you would propose such a thing. I assumed it was because you were fishing for reactions, which is a (for the most part) Town thing. But it appears you were serious? Whatever you and rezombad (I think?) are getting at about a mass claim breaking the game, I don't know what it is and I don't care to know. We're not massclaiming on D1 whether it will break the game or not, so it's irrelevant.

Look to the first to say no to the mass claim and why. Then look to the sheeple that just threw votes my way for no reason or substance. Its that 2nd group that I would scrutinize more.

While I would agree that people who jump on a bandwagon without reason definitely bleed scummy, this entire excercise was framed as accusations without reason. I chose you (and remained firm in my choice) because you haven't posted much, you suggested a divisive action (whether good or bad), and the posts you have made have been largely devoid of content.

What about Pedrobear? Rezombad? How are their minimal posts better than his?

I'm currently more leaning torward Tordeck as a mass claim and scum baiting doesn't feel the best way to win a game.

Just repeating myself but my position hasn't changed since.

Do you not see the point of a mass claim?

If you do, why do you think he is scum for that?

I'm more interested in this:

Pedrobear, why is "scum baiting" not a good way to win the game? What do you mean by "scum baiting" (to make sure you and I are on the same page there.)

[imopen2]

So what are we doing? This deadline is fast approaching. With so few posts to go on, I haven't seen much to persuade me to change my vote, although that post by Rez that Manders just quoted does seem a bit off.

Rez, I'd be curious to hear why mass claims are a good thing D1.

[imopen2]

Btw, I have very little time the next couple days so the sooner we get talking, the better.

[RedNihilist]

I don't like the fact that N_A vanished after being posed a direct question.

[rezombad]

So what are we doing? This deadline is fast approaching. With so few posts to go on, I haven't seen much to persuade me to change my vote, although that post by Rez that Manders just quoted does seem a bit off.

Rez, I'd be curious to hear why mass claims are a good thing D1.

In this setup it makes a sort of sense, making everyone claim and then making everyone claim the role they submitted to pin down scum. I'm not interested in doing it, just that it makes some sense, and don't think it's scummy here because there appears to be that thought behind it.

[rezombad]

so everyone thinks you're scummy, tordeck. and yet, only two votes for you. what do you make of that?

Two votes is L-2.

[rezombad]

Rezmochu, when you've got some spare time, can you please link me a game where you didn't just mindlessly call me scum over and over?
Just for the sake of asking.
Because I might be biased, but I recall you being actually right only once while being wrong like a million times.

Not because you're wrong or anything, but you're wrong as usual

No.
Also, your logic is flawed.

vote rednihilist

You being wrong is not logic, is a fact

If you want to meta away my read on you so badly, go read some old games yourself.

[RedNihilist]

Meta isn't involved at all - I know for a fact that your read is wrong, I don't need to read old games to know that.

[Stardust]

Votecount

NightArcher (2): Manders, Tordeck
Tordeck (2): imopen2, RedNihilist
imopen2 (1): PedroBear
RedNihilist (1): rezombad

Not voting: NightArcher

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Deadline was supposed to be Wednesday, but I screwed up with my last votecount and said there were 6 days remaining, so now you've got until Thursday.

Deadline is 49 hours from the time of this post. If you haven't come to a decision, no lynch will result.

[NightArcher]

What about Pedrobear? Rezombad? How are their minimal posts better than his?

Rezombad wasn't as inactive, and was participating in conversation at the time. I will admit I was unaware of exactly how inactive Pedrobear had been, but part of the reason I didn't pick him was because I was trying not to let personal bias cloud my judgement and I ended up swinging to far in the other direction. I didn't PbP look at everything he said, so I didn't realize it was basically nothing.

I don't like the fact that N_A vanished after being posed a direct question.

Did I miss something else I haven't responded to? Because Manders posted the question above yesterday. I also vanished for about a week before, said when I came back why I left, and the direct question Manders had posted THEN had also been a day before I came back. If you think I'm untruthful about why I disappeared: I've posted enough information on Sally that anyone who cares to look could figure out who I am IRL, so I wouldn't be adverse to showing you my aunt's obituary and my facebook profile to show you that I wasn't making up the fact that I did have a death in the family (and by logical extension I was out of town to attend her memorial service).

---

While I agree in spirit with Tordeck's idea for a massclaim, he's still in my top 3 for scum at the moment, with Imopen2 and Pedro. I have mixed feelings about voting him though because I don't want to put him at L-1 without more discourse, but at the same time I'm worried about our deadline which is rapidly approaching. With so few players in the game, we can't afford to NL I don't think, so I will Vote Tordeck.

In this setup it makes a sort of sense, making everyone claim and then making everyone claim the role they submitted to pin down scum. I'm not interested in doing it, just that it makes some sense, and don't think it's scummy here because there appears to be that thought behind it.

I can't imagine anyone would try to lie about the role they received, because it puts them in the position to be discovered. So I don't know how much it 'pins down scum' (unless you're saying they can't later lie about their role). My only issue is that we can't do this post-day1, because there will be one or two holes in verifiable information.

I'm going to the doctor's before work today so I don't know if I'm going to be able to post before tomorrow. I'll try to get on tonight though.

[Tordeck]

I'm Rudolph the Red Nosed Town Lie Detector.

In part the D1 claim idea was for the obvious reasons stated by Rez #93, in part just because I was dicking around, and mostly because I knew that I could possibly use my ability to find someone who was lying. A 1 for 1 trade in this size game favors the town by a lot.

[Manders]

Either NightArcher is scum, or he's terrible town. UGH.

I do not believe Tordeck is scum and will not be voting him Today. Especially given his role, the mass claim proposal makes sense. It's stupid and we never would have done it, but it makes sense. (Though his role is stupid because it could be either Town or Scum, just like EVERY ROLE IN THE DAMN GAME.)

NightArcher, you didn't mention rezombad at all in your response to me. I specifically asked about him as well. Why is that?

I'm still happy with my 2 choices for scum, but RedNihilist is rising steadily.

[Manders]

I'll have more once I think this over. Hopefully we slow down later in the day.

[Manders]

Wait...does anyone else have a Christmas-themed name? Because I do not.

[NightArcher]

NightArcher, you didn't mention rezombad at all in your response to me. I specifically asked about him as well. Why is that?

I did, I said that I he was participating in conversation at the time. Look again.

Either NightArcher is scum, or he's terrible town. UGH.

I never said I was good at this game. *shrug*

I'm going to Unvote to prevent the hammer. I'm somewhat satisfied with that reasoning. I'm also inclined to believe Manders' trust in him.

[NightArcher]

Posted from my phone with quotes is seriously aids... ~_~

[NightArcher]

And no, my role is not in any way Christmas themed.

[RedNihilist]

Nope, my PM lacks any kind of Xmas reference as well.

[Pedrobear]

Wait...does anyone else have a Christmas-themed name? Because I do not.

Same here. I did submit the role with a little background but Stardust changed it to a classic one.

[Pedrobear]

@Manders & Rezombad

My thought were correct, Tordeck has a way to check if someone is lying or not. But by scum baiting I was thinking that scum people would understand the same thing as I did and find a way to play around.


Also as every role is at least know by 2 people (the submitter and the player) a mass claim would have made sense but it's underestimating scum by playing like this.

[RedNihilist]

Wait...does anyone else have a Christmas-themed name? Because I do not.

Same here. I did submit the role with a little background but Stardust changed it to a classic one.

Can you explain this? You went for a flavourful role and Stardust warned you he would trim the flavour from it?

[rezombad]

Wait...does anyone else have a Christmas-themed name? Because I do not.

Same here. I did submit the role with a little background but Stardust changed it to a classic one.

What

[Manders]

I, too, would like clarification.

And now I'm considering a mass claim. Damn it.

[imopen2]

Mine is not xmas themed either, but Rudolph is the role I created, so he's not lying about his role.

Unvote

Vote: Red

We need to do something before the deadline

[Stardust]

Votecount

NightArcher (2): Manders, Tordeck
Tordeck (1): RedNihilist
imopen2 (1): PedroBear
RedNihilist (2): rezombad, imopen2

Not voting: NightArcher

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Deadline in a little more than 15 hours.

[Pedrobear]

Explanation. I submitted a role with a flavor text and Stardust only took the "oracle" text out of it.

[Manders]

Explanation. I submitted a role with a flavor text and Stardust only took the "oracle" text out of it.

How do you know this?

[Manders]

Mine is not xmas themed either, but Rudolph is the role I created, so he's not lying about his role.

Oh, ok.

Unvote

Vote: Red

We need to do something before the deadline

Agreed, but why that? In your opinion, what makes RedNihilist scummier than NightArcher? NightArcher already had 2 votes. Now two people have two votes.

[Pedrobear]

Explanation. I submitted a role with a flavor text and Stardust only took the "oracle" text out of it.

How do you know this?

I submitted it, he came back with an oracle version which I confirmed.

[rezombad]

And now I'm considering a mass claim. Damn it.

This seems off to me

[rezombad]

Red
Tordeck
Manders
Pedro
Imopen
Nightarcher

I think?

[Stardust]

And that's deadline...

NightArcher (2): Manders, Tordeck
Tordeck (1): RedNihilist
imopen2 (1): PedroBear
RedNihilist (2): rezombad, imopen2

Not voting: NightArcher

The winter sun dips too quickly below the horizon as a chill breeze causes you all to shiver. There will be no festivities tonight...

It is now Night 1. No posting. Please get your actions in within the next 72 hours.