Red Deck Wins post-Origins

[dpaine88]

Problem is by that time they have counters up for all your 4 mana plays and this deck doesnt have a great way of getting in underneath the counterspells.

The question is, is the deck good enough against RG Devo and Junk control that you can ignore the seemingly fading control decks?

I've been considering going back to Mardu or Jeskai as at least Mardu is very similar to the Mono Red Dragons deck but does offer a lot more with the two other colors.



In speaking with Ryan Hipp on facebook/twitter the WR deck has a horrible Green Devo matchup but very good vs Abzan. I think I want to run something a little better positioned equally.

[Purp]

Control decks arn't fading, they are typically less prevalent in the beginning of the format. It took a month for esper Dragons to come about and then it literally dominated.

[dpaine88]

True, but I try to stay focused on the coming magic weekend and try not to look further than that. Typical Ux control was not highly represented in the top64 of SCGCHI.

I would say they have faded, are still currently faded but could easily rise to the top in a couple of weeks once the format shakes out.

Therefore, I plan on choosing my deck for the coming weekend with the expectation that control is still on the downturn as far as being played.

[Valdarith]

This recent Open was very midrange. Control players will likely sieze the opportunity to capitalize on that this weekend, and you should adjust your expectations accordingly.

One of the keys to a successful tournament isn't playing a deck that beats last week's meta, but anticipating what adjustments other players will make to exploit that meta and beating THOSE strategies.

[dpaine88]

Good point Val. Though I feel as if it make take more than one week for that to occur but you are defintitly spot on in thinking ahead. Who knows this Opens Top8 could have 3 control decks but I feel like it does take a little while longer to adjust than week 2 of a new format.

The store I am going to battle the Super IQ at this weekend had one last weekend and this was the top8:

3x Abzan Control
1x UB Control
1x UR Artifact(my friend who made it to finals!)
1x Temur Goblins
1x GB Elves
1x GR Devotion

Acton MA Super IQ if anyones curious.

I seem to always play vs a ton of Abzan and dont play vs GR Devo THAT Much so considering metagaming around that info.

Obviously very specific and if you are attending the Open or a GP , it would be some next level shit to play an anti-control deck.

Although this is a general thread, any advice on beating Abzan consitently is always appreciated =)

EDIT:

As such, beating these two decks is the first priority for anyone playing competitive Magic in the coming weeks. If your deck cannot consistently compete with at least one if not both of these decks, then you should shelve it until the metagame shifts away from them... assuming it ever does.

The obvious answer is a blue-based control deck. Esper Dragons fell out of favor following the rise of Abzan Megamorph, but it matches up much better against the Deathmist Raptor-less lists. It also has a great matchup against Devotion. Control decks tend to underperform after a new set, although I believe most of that is due to people believing that rather than it necessarily being true.

With a defined metagame in place, I certainly expect various control decks to begin popping up over the next few weeks. While Esper Dragons has been the most popular variant for a while, I think the U/B lists with Perilous Vault (a la Adrian Sullivan) are better positioned for this metagame, and I would be surprised if none of these decks did well in Richmond or the Pro Tour.

Ross Meriam echoing what Val just said.

[Purp]

Played the red green list above to a 2-2 finish tonight. Deck was great in a lot of spots.

Some thoughts:

Chandra (like real bad) and hordeling outburst are bad right now. Ok well outburst isn't "bad" it just doesn't do much vs the popular decks.

Atarkas command was just great.
Pia was also surprisingly good as well, combined with command it was always a guaranteed 7+ damage.

LP, have you made any progress with your testing? Id be curious if we cut titans str and phoenix, and added 4 command and 2 dragon fodders.

[Purp]

something like

[deck]
4 swiftspear
3 berserker
2 zurgo
4 abbot
2 dragon fodder
2 pia and kiran

4 stoke
4 firecraft
4 command
4 lightning strike
3 searing blood
3 wild slash

12 mountain
4 foothills
2 mana confluence
2 temple
1 forst
[/deck]

maybe the 2 pias could flamewake

[dpaine88]

I think the best spot for Flamewake is the Big Red deck instead of the Rabble. I've been testing that to pretty good results as you have 7 creatures to bring it back.

Real question is, is the card good enough if you never return it?

[dauntless268]

My hunch would be yes, because they don't know what you have and may not want to waste an entire turn removing it if you can bring it back for a single red mana...

[dpaine88]

Have you guys worked out how to beat control with Big Red? It still seems like a HORRIBLE MU.

I'm thinking of swapping Rabble for Flamewake and then run 3-4 Scab-Clan or Eidolon in the board. or Firedrinker Satyr

[dpaine88]

Thinking of adding 4-6 one drops to the board for Big Red, would be cutting the Chandra and/or Anger for another Bezerker and/or Zurgo.

Also considering a 3/2 Slash/Stike split.

Heres where I'm at

[deck]Creatures (15)
4 Flamewake Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon( Maybe swap 1 for Sarkhan)
4 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Hangarback Walker

Planeswalkers (2)
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (26)
20 Mountain
2 Foundry of the Consuls
4 Haven of the Spirit Dragon

Spells (17)
3 Lightning Strike
2 Wild Slash
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Dragon Fodder
2 Hordeling Outburst
3 Roast

Sideboard
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Circle of Flame
2 Wild Slash
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Harness by Force
1 Roast
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Zurgo Bellstriker[/deck]

[NotARobot]

If you're adding 1 drops, wouldnt you want swiftspears over zurgo? I guess lightning berserkers are at least a way to recur phoenix if it gets to that point.

[Bouncin12]

Playing a red deck that wants to draw in the mirror, should I also choose to draw against other non mirror aggro decks?

[dpaine88]

Just wanted to post in case anyone missed it that MDU created a thread for the Atarka burn aggro deck in the competitive version now that the set is legal on all platforms.
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