[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Thrillho]

I'm not playing Anticipate or Telling Time, they're worth testing. I'm replacing Beseech the Queen in my timevault deck which does tap out a bunch; BBB was too strict on the mana.

Not unless you haven't also tested Impulse.

[Thrillho]

@everyone: why the seemingly arbitrary numbers of cards in lists you haven't tested yet?

[Thrillho]

This store just canceled my order because the price of dragonlord ojutai spiked.

That's awfully petty given that the price merely doubled from its initial listing price. I would not give that store your business in the future.

[Purp]

Who are you referring to Thrilli

[lorddax]

Has anyone gotten any traction with Outpost Siege with dashing?

[Purp]

What do you mean by traction? It's a good interaction when it's online.

[BlakLanner]

I hate these weeks between set release and MODO release. So hard to test properly (player skill on Cockatrice has been abysmal). For the Open this weekend, do I run:
[deck]Jeskai[/deck]
or do I cut a Charm and a Slash for 2 Anticipates? This assumes my Ojutai and 4th Regent arrive in the mail today before I leave. There is no way that I will pay the jacked up prices SCG will charge on site.

[Purp]

I don't think Draconic Roar is better than lightning strike. And I don't think you want more than 3 lightning strike. Id probably cut the Ojutai for on the main for another SBD. I'm not sure Chandra is better than outpost Seige or another spell when you are not try playing rabble. Unless you expect a lot of sidisi whip, I think seismic rupture is better than anger currently, plus the matchups you bring it in you are trying to win with mantis riders. I think you want 4x flooded stand and 2 islands 2 plains, pretty crucial for cruise. I'm not sure keranos and narset are better than elspeth.

Those are my jumbled phone thoughts

[lorddax]

By traction I mean is it something that gets planned around in sequencing, or is the VCA mode chosen 80% of the time?

The reason I ask is I'm having an issue closing out games where an opponent gets to stabilize after getting them down to 5-2 life. So I'm looking at ways to try and find legs for Mono Red, which I've gone back to after testing Atakra's Command that wasn't doing enough to justify the manabase changes.

Here's my current list that I'm looking to twist around:

[deck]Week 1 Aggro[/deck]

Planning on pulling the commands and a fodder, but trying to figure out what to put in instead. Lots of control in my meta, Esper & Abzan, so a fair number of Rams.

[pikachufan2164]

By traction I mean is it something that gets planned around in sequencing, or is the VCA mode chosen 80% of the time?

The reason I ask is I'm having an issue closing out games where an opponent gets to stabilize after getting them down to 5-2 life. So I'm looking at ways to try and find legs for Mono Red, which I've gone back to after testing Atakra's Command that wasn't doing enough to justify the manabase changes.

If you know you're going to be playing the long game, then the first Siege generally goes on Khans mode for the card advantage. The only time that I would play the first one on Dragons mode is when the board is clogged, and I want to push through the least few points of damage.

[Thrillho]

Who are you referring to Thrilli

virtually every person who has posted a deck list on the past two pages.

[Thrillho]

Jeskai Tokens gives you the most powerful deck, so I'd just run that.

dromoka's command.

[hamfactorial]

Everyone should just jam 4-ofs like me, because yolo fuck tuning

[Thrillho]

<4 Treasure Cruise in Jeskai is most certainly wrong.

[BlakLanner]

I don't think Draconic Roar is better than lightning strike. And I don't think you want more than 3 lightning strike. Id probably cut the Ojutai for on the main for another SBD. I'm not sure Chandra is better than outpost Seige or another spell when you are not try playing rabble. Unless you expect a lot of sidisi whip, I think seismic rupture is better than anger currently, plus the matchups you bring it in you are trying to win with mantis riders. I think you want 4x flooded stand and 2 islands 2 plains, pretty crucial for cruise. I'm not sure keranos and narset are better than elspeth.

Those are my jumbled phone thoughts

Keranos is the nuts against control. I never lose games if I untap with him unless I am so far behind the game was already decided. Narset is an experiment but rebounding Treasure Cruise just felt awesome. It only comes in for control but it might be a bit too cute. I wanted Chandra because I don't always 0 button. I like to pop off tokens with her and even ultimate from time to time. I figured that there were going to be enough targets where Roar would make a reasonable 2-of with 6 dragons. I might shave that to 1 and put the 4th Slash back in. Ojutai has been nuts for me. I may want the second SBD somewhere in the 75 anyway but the Dragonlord has easily earned his spot in the main.

I am down to 3 Strand only because I wanted to shave to 23 land but still have enough red sources to have double red on 4. I am 1 Island 3 Plains because I need double white early for Brimaz and never need more than one blue source.

<4 Treasure Cruise in Jeskai is most certainly wrong.

In tokens, I agree. In aggro/midrange not so much because we don't have a loot outlet to easily fill the graveyard.

[Thrillho]

i don't think dig through time changes that.

[lorddax]

Tinkering with this revival as well - thoughts on feasability in the current meta from people who've jammed more games than me?

[deck]Sledgedragon[/deck]

More mana sinks would be nice, but think this one has a good number for efficiency.

[Thrillho]

What does Crucible of the Spirit Dragon do in this deck with two firebreathing creatures and 7 total dragons in the deck?
I dislike the Haven of the Spirit Dragon, but jamming Stormbreath into your opponent's life total is sometimes the easiest way to break parity so I wouldn't tell you to cut it.
I don't understand the Generator Servant when most of your creatures cannot be cast using it's effect, have haste, or both.
Why do you have 25 lands in a deck with 7 cards that cost 4 or more mana?
>0 Roast is the correct number.

[lorddax]

First pass had just straight 25 mountains, Crucible was a guess for a good non creature mana sink and get Monstorous on Stormie. Think its reaching a bit too much?

25 lands for the 67% t4 and the 51% t5, was debating cutting to go to 26 for the 71/56% split. Have a 26th land in the protoside for moving into heavier burn & big dudes.

Generator was something I was looking at as a way to bring the 3cmc+ creatures in earlier but, had it as a 2/2 split, but think it may be good to cut all together with only 10 targets. 4th Whisperer would most likely be more consistent in dealing damage.

-1 slash -1 Claws +2 roast feels stronger.

[deck]Seldgedragon Side[/deck]

[Purp]

@Throllo - my list is heavily tested and quite the opposite of arbitrary.

@BL - running less than 24 is sheer insanity. Hitting land drops in Jeskai builds is so crucial that I am now convinced I'll never run less tan 25 again.

[BlakLanner]

I think the big call for Haven is to recover dragons from your graveyard late in the game on top of providing mana.

I understand your concern about 23 lands very well. I just seem to flood out so much more on 24+. I really want 23.5 lands but don't know how to put half of a card into a deck legally. I figured that I could get away with 23 now since I cut the Elspeth and only have 2-3 5 drops now. I was also hoping that adding the Anticipates would help smooth out the draws a bit.

[Purp]

Flooding out happens to every deck, no matter th land count. Sure anticipate helps smooth out draws, but anticipate is the last turn 2 play you would want to do that's available to your deck. I would heavily advise against 23 lands. That's why Dig is awesome because it helps prevent flood. Nothing worse than treasure cruising into 2+ land. But who knows, maybe variance will be on your side, I just wouldn't put my bets on it.

[BlakLanner]

I will give it some more thought before printing my list. I may be having selective memory about flood vs screw. I know that I am on the lighter side. I have gotten those 2/3 land Cruises before but Cruise > Dig for me because I cannot reliably get double blue. I already need double white and double red and the manabase cannot stretch any further.

[Thrillho]

@Throllo - my list is heavily tested and quite the opposite of arbitrary.

UU WW 2 proactive cards for dredge in your aggro-midrange deck seems real.

I think the big call for Haven is to recover dragons from your graveyard late in the game on top of providing mana.

yes, that's why i went on the run-on sentence about Thundermawing your opponent to death; having a virtual extra copy in the deck that you don't have to mulligan is a worthwhile inclusion for testing and if it's bad, it can be converted into a mountain.

@lorddax: having a colorless land for your mega-heavy mono-red commitments to monstrous a creature that is already a 4/4 flying haste (and already at the top of your curve) seems super extraneous. as noted, i'd rather have an extra "virtual" copy that doesn't cause you to mull in the form of the haven than a bunch of colorless lands. if anything, i'd run 1-2 nykthos as "mana sink" that interacts favorably with your heavy red commitments and costs across the entire deck instead of the very top end of your curve (and given your 4-8 firebreathers, when are you going to have time to charge your crucible?).

[Purp]

I've played dig and elspeth side by side plenty of times... I have never run into issues casting either due to color restrictions. Maybe it's you, Thrillo, who should do some testing.

[Thrillho]

sorry i stand corrected. uu rr ww.

13 creatures for 4 stoke the flames.

you have almost no proactive triggers on prowess for seeker of the way and most of your deck interacts favorably with soulfire grand master.

your deck looks very schizophrenic in construction -- you have a bunch of reactive instants and then proactive threats and no way to leave up mana for both until the very late game, when i guess you're trying to land and stick a planeswalker. you have dig through time -- which costs more mana and is more color intensive -- instead of treasure cruise, and then you have 6 total proactive cards building toward the dredge on either card.

it's like you took the concept of jacob wilson's junk control deck and then replaced all of the good abzan cards with jeskai aggro cards.

while i'm being snarky while doing it, i'm questioning these choices because the net result is a disjointed pile. if your answer to these questions is "you didn't test," it means your choices are just as arbitrary as i'm claiming they are.

[Purp]

Channeling your inner kait today.

[Thrillho]

Channeling your inner kait today.

it's a tough job but somekijins gotta do it.

[Purp]

You must not play a lot of standard.

[Thrillho]

You must not play a lot of standard.

i pay attention to what wins and i don't recognize your deck.

[Self Medicated]

Has anyone tried a R/B dragon deck with Thunderbreak Regent and [card]Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury[/card]?

[jsilv]

just run doomwake giant and sidisi, format solved.

[Jamie]

Hey guys, check out my tournament playable tokens list! Keep in mind though, I haven't tested it, but I'm absolutely sure these arbitrary numbers of cards is spot-on perfect.

[deck]
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Soulfire Grandmaster
2 Seeker of the Way
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
3 Anticipate
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Lightning Strike
2 Wild Slash
3 Hordeling Outburst
1 Secure the Wastes
4 Stoke the Flames
1 Elspeth, Standard's Champion
1 Roast
1 Raise the Alarm
1 Gods Willing
1 Valorous Stance
1 Dragon Fodder
24 lands including the dragon value-land, just in case I lose my ojutai[/deck]

[Khaospawn]

You've been a great help.

[Khaospawn]

I'm still laughing at Purp's autocorrect for Thrillho.

Throllo.

[Khaospawn]

Channeling your inner kait today.

Nothing wrong with that.

[LP, of the Fires]

FWIW, when I use arbitrary numbers for untested decks I follow the principle of:

4-of: if I die with 3 copies in my hand, I'm fine with that. card is great.

3-of: want to see 1 early and 1 late. 2 early is probably abysmal.

2-of: want to see one as the game drags on, don't need it early.

1-of: either uniquely powerful card that offers something deck doesn't have(jeskai charm in all my decks for lifelink mode) and/or something the opponent just can't play around.

Related: the numbers also get mixed around for when want multiple versions of the same effect for flexibility. Ex. being like 2/2 bile blight/ult price split. Both are cheap removal, but one's easier to cast and the other has more utility/blowout potential. If your opponents horedling outburst, you'd rather have 1 bile and 1 price then 2 price and if they're stormbreathing, same principle in the opposite direction. This is much more relevant with regards to removal and in decks with card draw then it is in most decks.

[LP, of the Fires]

just run doomwake giant and sidisi, format solved.

He's not wrong.

[LP, of the Fires]

Jeskai Tokens gives you the most powerful deck, so I'd just run that.

dromoka's command.

I regularly play strategies that seemingly lose to single cards and refuse to live in fear of the boogie man.

[rcwraspy]

Anybody think mono black control could be a thing? Has great kill and some draw spells and things like tasigur sidisi and ugin as finishers.