R/W Aggro

[dpaine88]

I thought he said Ashcloud?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Oopps, getting my birds confused.

[Khaospawn]

It's probably a better call over Gryff

[dpaine88]

Looks like my messages from my phone didnt send...

Shahar was on Sidisi Whip btw.

Also came across this RW Splash Doom list on ChannelFIreball article.

by Josh Silvestri

[deck]
Lands
1 x Swamp
1 x Plains
5 x Mountain
4 x Bloodstained Mire
4 x Temple of Triumph
4 x Nomad Outpost
3 x Battlefield Forge
3 x Caves of Koilos
Creatures
3 x Seeker of the Way
4 x Soulfire Grand Master
4 x Goblin Rabblemaster
2 x Butcher of the Horde
Noncreature Spells
4 x Hordeling Outburst
4 x Stoke the Flames
4 x Crackling Doom
2 x Wild Slash
1 x Valorous Stance
4 x Outpost Siege
3 x Chained to the Rocks

Sideboard
3 x Anger of the Gods
3 x Ashcloud Phoenix
2 x Erase
2 x Glare of Hersey
2 x Mastery of the Unseen
2 x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
[/deck]

[LP, of the Fires]

Splash black, do not collect 200 dollars, go straight to x-2.

[Aodh]

Not worth.

[Khaospawn]

To be fair, the deck did win a 200 person 5K last weekend.

[Self Medicated]

Well, I ask because Doom's mentioned in more than one article in the last week.

Adam Yurchick wrote in his article today, "Crackling Doom isn't as efficient as Chained to the Rocks, but as a burn spell its more aggressive and better against control. It's also not vulnerable to enchantment removal and cards like Ugin, the Spirit Dragon."

Josh Silvestri from his article yesterday, "It really goes to show you just how strong Crackling Doom is at the moment, it’s by far one of the best spells you can have against Forest decks and is acceptable in nearly any matchup."

And once more from Silvestri (can you tell I value your opinion jsilv?):

@it's worse than R/W: I actually tried this bc Stark specifically said after talking with Sam Black that his deck would've been much better w/ Crackling Doom. The mana is basically on the same level as Jeskai and there's nothing in RW that replicates what Crackling Doom does for the deck. Butcher can basically be any big dumb thing, I just like it because Butcher is a 4-drop and gives us options late when the 2/2's are sitting there being useless. This is why so little of the main RW deck was changed. This is a build aimed at winning mirrors and having a reasonable shot vs. bigger Forest decks.

I just want to get a dialogue going about the future direction of this deck.

[LP, of the Fires]

The barely mardu deck is basically what you want to play if you think the metagame allows you to play slightly slower while getting more power. It's particularly effective vs. Green devotion and doom gives you less dead cards vs. various control shells since it still deals damage and is easier to justify in postboard games as opposed to chain which is likely necessary but doesn't hit silumgar and gets answered by sultai charm out of sultai.

Logic nigga.

[Self Medicated]

The barely mardu deck is basically what you want to play if you think the metagame allows you to play slightly slower while getting more power. It's particularly effective vs. Green devotion and doom gives you less dead cards vs. various control shells since it still deals damage and is easier to justify in postboard games as opposed to chain which is likely necessary but doesn't hit silumgar and gets answered by sultai charm out of sultai.

Logic nigga.

This makes sense to me. Very good explanation LP.

[dpaine88]

The 5k deck wasnt running Chained to the Rocks FWIW

[Khaospawn]

Because Cuvi was smart.

[dpaine88]

Would it be crazy to run Magma Jet over lightning strike?

[Valdarith]

Harder to kill Courser after it blocks a goblin token.

[Khaospawn]

Tbh, I've been missing M-Jet.

[Khaospawn]

But LS is very important to have.

[dpaine88]

Is it really though?

[Khaospawn]

Yes. It kills Sidisi and takes out Mantis Rider. It's decent enough reach. Also, what Val said about Courser.

[LP, of the Fires]

Sidisi basically got pushed out of standard by Ugin.

[Khaospawn]

I'm not convinced.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'm not saying cut lightning strike.

[Khaospawn]

Okay. I'm now glad that I'm at computer...

Last night, I had a few beers and was poring over the pile I'm considering bringing to Miami. I'm really torn between cutting the dragons main in favor of Grandmasters and more Sieges. After moving some things around, I ended up with a "hybrid" deck.

Imagine my chagrin...or joy...when I read CVM's article today.

Read it. I'll wait.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30 ... Miami.html

Done? Okay.

I think it's crazy that I had a (mostly) original idea and then I read in the morning that somebody else has thought of it too. Crazy, right?

Anyways, here's what I had last night:

[deck]
Creature 14
4 Seeker of the Way
2 Soulfire Grandmaster
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 22
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Outpost Siege
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Wild Slash
3 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Land 24
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence
3 Plains
11 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge

Sideboard 15
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Mastery of the Unseen
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Valorous Stance
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Erase
3 Arc Lightning
[/deck]

It seems interesting. It has all the cards I do want to play. But most importantly, I wonder how Purphoros will be. I think it is an unbeatable card against certain decks, like Sultai (or even Abzan) control. He "combos" with Mastery and even Phoenixes. It's possible that, even against decks that clog the battlefield, Purphoros could make the difference in a showdown.

Tell me I'm crazy. Please.

Talk some damn sense into me.

[Khaospawn]

I feel that my "hybrid" deck may come down to the lone Chandra vs. a 3rd Stormbreath.

[Khaospawn]

The 60 is now looking more to be like this:

[deck]
Creature 14
4 Seeker of the Way
1 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 22
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Outpost Siege
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Wild Slash
1 Magma Jet
3 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Land 24
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence
3 Plains
11 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
[/deck]

I just want to squeeze as much value out of the deck as I can.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'm fine with the purphoros. I think you want to cut that phoenix for and a dragon for 2 drops. Grandmaster, stance, strike, slash, any of the them, preferably grandmaster. It's imperative that your game 1 curve is low for the smoothest most interactive curve possible with all the sieging going on.

As a matter of fact, I'd definitely add a wild slash and grandmaster and call that deck a go.

That mana confluence is offensive but whatever.

[Khaospawn]

My manabase is non-negotiable. It hasn't failed me in months, aside from just random no landers into mulliganed no landers (hey, shit happens).

LP, write out YOUR version of the 60. Please.

Your input is highly appreciated right now.

[LP, of the Fires]

[deck]
Creature 14
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 22
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Outpost Siege
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Wild Slash
3 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Land 24
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Plains
10 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
[/deck]

Pry my grandmasters from my cold dead fingers. I'll buy the hype on pilgrim and a lone stormbreath main for value.

[photodyer]

Awesome discussion, gentlemen...I miss this a BUNCH. Hopefully things are leveling to where I can actually be around regular-like again.

I will tell you that I'm absolutely intimidated...I'm going with RW on the Magic Cruise as my Standard deck and have a great chance of having to play it (unless plans have changed) against Ben Stark. Oh, I so don't want to embarrass myself...

[LP, of the Fires]

Tip about Ben Stark: the man loves to here himself talk and I imagine considers himself and educator. If you want to know anything about magic, he well tell you EVERYTHIGN and then some.

[jsilv]

I tried the Mardu build that 7-0'd the PTQ and like it a little more than my own. I'm either playing it or Abzan Control (because Abzan Control has no truly terrible matches ATM).

[GoblinWarchief]

Actually the "hybrid" deck that khaos posted in something that i'm considering since some days.
The real debate since stark's list has been playing grandmasters or playing dragon.
I liked grand master a lot immediately when it was printed, because it's a decent early drop that can take over the game in the late turns meanwhile providing lifegain.
But i am not comfortable cutting dragons completely because flying creatures are essential against green decks.
Also i'm not convinced playing 4 sieges maindeck is essential, because i don't want to find myself with too much of them in hand and experiment the feeing i had when playing jeskai tokens and drawing 3-4 cruises/ascendancies (aka the do nothing hand).
I think that a balance can be found, and personally i like 2 grandmasters, 2-3 dragons and 3 sieges maindeck with extra fliers in sideboard. 6 two drops is a number that i am comfortable with, and now that caryatid is seeing less play i could also see a 3/3 split between seeker and grandmaster but probably it's not a good idea.
About magma jet, i really like playing it. I understand that wild slash is a fantastic tempo play, and lightning strike deals 1 more damage .... but playing a couple magma jets replacing 1 strike and 1 slash really makes me feel much more confident about not flooding out. In my opinion the advantage of scrying 2 is worth losing very few power.
Last thing i want to mention is stark writing in his article that mastery of the unseen is now less effective because control decks (abzan and sultai) have access to enchantment removal and he'd rather play ashcloud phoenix now. What do you think about it?
I suppose i should also post a list but since i have a pptq on sunday i will post it assuming that i don't change my mind and just play mono red.

[GoblinWarchief]

Another random thought : if you decide to play 4 outpost sieges, as stark mentioned you are playing sort of a control deck. He said that dragon is not a good/necessary card in a deck able to create so much card advantage, also because if you tap out turn 4 to play siege, you will need to hit spells to recover your tempo loss and possibly stay on defense, a job really not suited for dragon. So what about playing 2 wingmate roc in lists with 4 sieges ?

[Pedrobear]

Is wingmate roc a good defensive card ? I don't think so.

[dpaine88]

Yes. It kills Sidisi and takes out Mantis Rider. It's decent enough reach. Also, what Val said about Courser.

I will say that I have not played against a Sidisi or Mantis in over 2 months, maaybe just how things lined up for me.


Whats this 7-0 PTQ list? I couldnt find it online, only 4 of the top8 from the MTGO PTQ

Was it Jeskai or Mardu? Just saw an article by Yurchick referencing a 7-0 list but its Jeskai.

I am actually considering Jeskai myself for this weekend. Got a Super IQ $1k and a PPTQ.

Feel like all the good players are on Junk or BUG Control. Jeskai seems better vs them, and still good in mirror/RW.

Thoughts?

[dpaine88]

@Jsilv - I havnt been on this site as much as I'd like in past 6 months, are you the Jsilv that does content for CHannel Fireball? If so your thoughts on the RW splashes would be awesome.

[Kaitscralt]

Tip about Ben Stark: the man loves to here himself talk and I imagine considers himself and educator. If you want to know anything about magic, he well tell you EVERYTHIGN and then some.

whereas you can barely formulate a coherent sentence

[NotARobot]

Yes. It kills Sidisi and takes out Mantis Rider. It's decent enough reach. Also, what Val said about Courser.

I will say that I have not played against a Sidisi or Mantis in over 2 months, maaybe just how things lined up for me.


Whats this 7-0 PTQ list? I couldnt find it online, only 4 of the top8 from the MTGO PTQ

Was it Jeskai or Mardu? Just saw an article by Yurchick referencing a 7-0 list but its Jeskai.

I am actually considering Jeskai myself for this weekend. Got a Super IQ $1k and a PPTQ.

Feel like all the good players are on Junk or BUG Control. Jeskai seems better vs them, and still good in mirror/RW.

Thoughts?

Pretty sure he means this mardu list, it was an online ptq?

[deck]
Creatures
2 Butcher of the Horde
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Seeker of the Way
4 Soulfire Grand Master
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Crackling Doom
4 Lightning Strike
3 Stoke the Flames
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Outpost Siege

Lands
3 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Caves of Koilos
5 Mountain
4 Nomad Outpost
1 Swamp
2 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Erase
3 Mastery of the Unseen
4 Thoughtseize
2 Valorous Stance
2 Wild Slash
[/deck]

[Self Medicated]

I tried the Mardu build that 7-0'd the PTQ and like it a little more than my own. I'm either playing it or Abzan Control (because Abzan Control has no truly terrible matches ATM).

Trying to find the list but no luck so far. Do you have a link?

EDIT: Oops. Seems I'm late to the party.

[Khaospawn]

Seems I'm late to the party.

[LP, of the Fires]

Seems I'm late to the party.

First episode of south park I ever saw.