R/W Aggro

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:11 pm

Anymore thoughts Lightning Dolt??

Really not sure what variant to run tomorrow at this IQ, but then again getting 4 Soulfire might be a longshot anyways....

Was it just having the maxed Seiges? Seige has been incredible in the typical RW for me so maybe just cutting Chandra/Pheonix and running 4 Seige is good.

People say that having more small spells helps Seige which I guess can be true but I find between your draw step and Seige 1 is often a land anyways. Most of the time I am very happy to see Dragon off seige.

Wrathberry · Postby **Wrathberry** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:16 pm

[deck]Creatures
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Soulfire Grandmaster
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Butcher of the Horde
Spells
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Valorous Stance
1 Arc Lightning
3 Lightning Strike
4 Crackling Doom
4 Stoke the Flames
Lands
4 Outpost Siege
4 Nomad Outpost
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Plains
1 Swamp
6 Mountain
Sideboard
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Abzan Advantage
1 Erase
2 Arc Lightning
3 Murderous Cut
2 Glare of Hersey[/deck]

Crackling Doom makes your Forest - Giant Donk matches significantly less dogshit and Butcher of the Horde is respectable across the field, though it isn't particularly great at anything. Hordeling Outburst was in here, but proved to be pretty shitty when everyone and their mum knows you run mono 2/2's and maybe a Stormbreath Dragon. Instead of just being a massive dog to Bile Blight or Drown with most hands, Butcher gives you some protection and Crackles keeps Courser and Rhino in check. The biggest drawback is that it dies to Stoke, Chained and Glare in the mirror, meaning that despite potential lifegain it's usually better to swap or run in conjunction w/ Angler. Without the recursion ability on Tasigur you may as well go with the Fish that haumphs 4/5's.

Sarkhan is probably better than Stormbreath now if you have enough patience to never play it first in the RW mirror. Both of them are butts against decks with Murderous Cut and Downfall. Sorin may just be worse with Outbursts cut, but I haven't played enough games to really tell you.

so you play mardu again. wrong thread for this deck

its currently worse than r/w.. i played mardu for a long time, and r/w is just more stable. this may chance with dragons we dont know, but currently its just a worse r/w deck.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:39 pm

mardu has a better Gx matchup and I would say it might be a little favor in the Rx mirror/

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:40 pm

I went 5-0 last night with this pile:

I had some really good games against 2 G/r Devotion decks. I also beat 2 mirrors and a Mardu deck.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:15 pm

Jsilv - 27 lands?

jsilv · Postby **jsilv** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:22 pm

Jsilv - 27 lands?

It's 25, the two Plains aren't in there. I was c/p'ing a RW list and just editing a little bc the decks are effectively the same except one has Crackling Doom and the other doesn't. I edited it now.

@kaits: Elspeth is prbs better than Sorin since they both die to Glare anyway, so point to you.

@it's worse than R/W: I actually tried this bc Stark specifically said after talking with Sam Black that his deck would've been much better w/ Crackling Doom. The mana is basically on the same level as Jeskai and there's nothing in RW that replicates what Crackling Doom does for the deck. Butcher can basically be any big dumb thing, I just like it because Butcher is a 4-drop and gives us options late when the 2/2's are sitting there being useless. This is why so little of the main RW deck was changed. This is a build aimed at winning mirrors and having a reasonable shot vs. bigger Forest decks.

@all: Readd 3-4 Mastery of the Unseen if you want to have game against UB Control and Sultai. I think that match is pretty awful regardless unless the stumble, but it's definitely the most impacting card we have other than Siege.

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:03 pm

Any opinions on which list to bring to an IQ where I expect less aggro/mirror and more midrange/control decks?

I am leaning towards the classic builds since Soulfire and Wild Slash arent that great against mid/control. Also I know this deck pretty well-playing it all season.

However I could totally be missing something and have heard nothing but good things about the Stark list so it could be the correct choice.

On the side: Kinda thinking RDW might be the correct call considering the meta I expect...

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:18 pm

Just play what you like.

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:12 am

Yeah trying to get some testing on cockatrice to see how I like the Stark list.

Was able to get all 4 Soulfire Grandmasters so I can run it if I want.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:39 am

The Stark list is pretty good, but I prefer the "traditional" build more for its versatility.

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:52 am

One thing I like is certainly Mastery of the Unseen, I am running 3 in my SB regardless of deck choice. Seems amazing vs control decks and prob a bit better than Hammer of Purphoros.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:24 am

i put 2 in my board for last night, but never encountered a control deck.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:03 pm

mardu has a better Gx matchup and I would say it might be a little favor in the Rx mirror/

Wasn't one of the reasons for playing RW in the first place that is beat Mardu? Lol

I really like Stark's list because it feels a lot like last season's burn. You can basically ignore your opponent in certain matches and just go to like 30 life and race them. It feels good.

Outpost is also at its best in this deck with the lower curve. There are a lot of times where outpost siege - Dragons reads "you can't lose and your opponent can't win".

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:08 am

Ended up losing in top4 at a SCG IQ today but you'll never guess who showed up to our 32 person event...

mother fucking Shahar Shenhar...the world magic champion.. He lost in finals to dude that beat me.

I played the Nathan Holiday list shown here http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... ard-guide/

Lost in swiss and top4 to the same guy on Junk control. I dont think the matchup is awful, but I mulliganed a bunch and got stuck on 3 lands a bunch against him. Certainly not a good matchup for us.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:32 am

Play at least 3 Mastery.

Pedrobear · Postby **Pedrobear** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:31 am

Again 3-0 this week-end with the same decklist. Faced B/W Warriors, Temur and Sidisi Whip with Tasigurs, Whisperwood Elemetal and Torrent Elemental. The last one is a very good card agaisnt us, blocking efficiently SBD and they can play it even if we chain it.

I might switch to Ben Starck to test it for incoming bigger event but I couldn't find at the moment 4 Soulfire Grandmaster

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:29 pm

I did play mastery but I went a little bigger post board with Sarkhan and Phoenix and like I said, had to mull to 6 both games 2 and 3 of both the matches we played. I got stuck on 2/3 lands till turn 6/7 , while drawing 4-5 drops, each time as well. He also had good draws, didnt mulligan any of the 6 games we played, no mana isssues and lined up well vs my threats.

The guy went on to beat Shahar Shenhar, so I dont feel as bad.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:49 pm

What was Shahar playing?

Aodh · Postby **Aodh** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:43 pm

A Mutagenic Growth deck, probably.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:51 pm

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:15 am

I actually don't find Abzan control bad?

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:50 am

Man, I just realized that I'll be jamming R/w in Miami in 5 days.

Aodh · Postby **Aodh** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:34 pm

Finalized your main yet?

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:48 pm

After reading Ben Stark's article, I'm seriously considering moving the Dragons to the board.

I'm not high on Grandmaster, and I've really been pushing Heliod's Pilgrim and Ashcloud Phoenix for months now so I think they're going to stay in. I also really love my singleton Chandra, which has won me countless number of games I had no business winning.

This was my FNM special that I played last week and, per usual, it worked like a well-oiled machine:

With the proposed changes, it would look something like this:

I'd love to be able to play some games with this configuration, but time is short right now. I'm closing all week at work (which conflicts with my four testing buddies) and I need to spend Thursday getting ready to make the trip to Miami (like laundry, buy groceries, etc). I'll be leaving early Friday morning to make the 4 hour drive across the state, but hopefully I'll have the time (and energy) to play some events onsite Friday afternoon/evening.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:43 pm

As your friend, I IMPLORE YOU to play some number of grandmasters in your seventy five. The ability to control a racing situation and rebuy all your spells(with infinite sieges, you'll hit your land drops) makes the card bonkers. That and it actually keeps up with siege rhino in damage races since it creates 4 point life swings every hit.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:02 pm

I'll see how many I can pick up beforehand, as i currently don't own any.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:03 pm

Still, i can't imagine playing more than 2.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:04 pm

Gryff also seems like obsolete tech as it's so unreliable and generally low impact.

Self Medicated · Postby **Self Medicated** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:09 pm

Still, i can't imagine playing more than 2.

You don't need more than 1 Grand Master if you're running the "normal" R/W list. 3-4 if you're running Stark's list. I tried out Pilgrim recently and I don't particularly like her in the deck. But if you're putting good results with her, that's all that really matters. Stick with what feels right.

Gryff also seems like obsolete tech as it's so unreliable and generally low impact.

Gryff has been doing work for me recently. Lots of Siege Rhino running around in my local meta. Would the alternative be to just get ahead with Grand Master and race?

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:29 pm

Negating the siege rhino affect never felt great as they still have a 4/5 trampler against my 2/1 do nothing. Yes, the swing can be big, but I'd rather just play a more powerful card. The lifegain's not the important part, it's the body. For that reason, i'm much more content just jamming glares, stances, and chains.

From Khaos's deck, I'd probably cut pilgrims, a strike, and a phoenix for 4 grandmasters, and in the board, i'd cut a mastery and the 2 gryffs for a third erase, the phoenix, and either a stance or a glare.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:31 pm

Maybe 3 grandmasters and 1 pilgrim just because I'd want a "5th" answer to rakshasa deathdealer can pilgrim lets you keep some number of chains in your deck postboard against decks like sultai control while not feeling horrible about doing so(they play 4-5 creatures postboard that you care about killing AND they have a fair amount of enchantment removal).

The confluence is whatever. More of a choice of choosing how you'd rather lose; taplands or painlands. I tend to go with taplands since you get the ability to shuffle your deck in the face of scry and more mountains, but it's whatever either way and this deck plays ashcloud.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:45 pm

Listen to LP.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:36 pm

Eh, khaos'll play whatever he wants and either do fwell, or scrub out and win some boxes. I think we both know that and have a comfortable understanding of each other.

Kaitscralt · Postby **Kaitscralt** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:13 pm

I'll see how many I can pick up beforehand, as i currently don't own any.

the truth unveiled

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 pm

What truth?

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:23 pm

Kait picks and chooses whatever is to be the truth from whatever i say.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:26 pm

Eh, khaos'll play whatever he wants and either do fwell, or scrub out and win some boxes. I think we both know that and have a comfortable understanding of each other.

You are not wrong.

As far as Gryff goes, the last time he was useful was against the Green Devotion decks. I took to the skies and blanked a few ETB creatures.

Self Medicated · Postby **Self Medicated** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:56 pm

So, serious question. Is it worth it to dilute our mana base to include Crackling Doom? Or is that version of the deck just a flash in the pan?

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:16 pm

I'm not a fan, personally.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:08 am

Stark did mention switching Mastery of the Unseen for Flamewake Phoenixes for the sideboard, but said nothing about a black splash in his most recent article.

Dies to Removal

R/W Aggro

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