SOA Mafia: Season One -- Day Four

[RedNihilist]

Oh damn, that's when you just say, "No, I don't think we'll get much info from that." I was hoping your role might be a piece to a puzzle when I asked that, but I now believe that WitchHunt is caught scum so I will not be claiming until tomorrow.

Can you explain me this, please?
I mean, I don't really care if you claim or not, just explain why you suddenly go from "let's claim!" to "no, this is suddenly complicated!"

[imopen2]

Witchhunt will not be mod killed. Please continue.

[Stardust]

Can you explain me this, please?

Claiming doesn't make sense if we've caught scum. I believe we have done so, so I won't claim.

The complicated comment was referring to hamfactorial's post. That was unexpected and might change how this shakes out.

[rcwraspy]

What kind of question is this?

WitchHunt claimed he was JOAT. WitchHunt is posting scummy things. I'm wondering if WitchHunt could be telling us the truth with his role claim but also be scum alignment.

Please explain me how you can even think that he can be scam while telling the truth. This is just senseless.

I'm not sure what's confusing about this.

Each player has both a role and an alignment. You can truthfully claim a role while at the same time lie about your alignment. So I'm simply asking if there are strong balancing issues with scum having a JOAT.

[rcwraspy]

He won't. I may as well come out and say it, I'm a JOAT. I copped Ham on day one, but I didn't have to say anything to confirm him as town and give up info about my role. Last night I doc'd Rezombad since Jamie flipped town and he was the only one who was on his side, come Day 3, apparently Kpaca's bomb went off, but no one died. I wanted to confirm whether or not a roleblocker could prevent his bomb from going off, and from what I both read and from Stardust's reaffirmation, no, they can't. I still have a vig shot left, but I was in a similar boat with Raspy where I wasn't sure when I could use it.

Emphasis mine.

You didn't know Jamie's flip until the next day. How could you have used his alignment in deciding to doc Rez?

Except that isn't accurate, Jamie was killed two days full days prior to night ending, it was later specified this was during twilight by imopen himself.

Huh?

Can someone else weigh in here? Am I off-base or not seeing his reasoning?

We did not know Jamie's alignment before I killed him. His flip didn't happen until imopen opened the day up again. Therefore there was no time where you could make the decision to doc Rez "since Jamie flipped town." Jamie hadn't flipped town yet.

[rcwraspy]

WitchHunt, have you posted your T/S list?

[WitchHunt]

No point anymore, just do your votes and get it over with.

[rcwraspy]

are you saying you're scum? because if you were town you'd fight for it.

[hamfactorial]

Vote WitchHunt

[Stardust]

We did not know Jamie's alignment before I killed him. His flip didn't happen until imopen opened the day up again. Therefore there was no time where you could make the decision to doc Rez "since Jamie flipped town." Jamie hadn't flipped town yet.

I'm not sure where you went wrong but read it again. Jamie flipped six days before Day started.

Each player has both a role and an alignment. You can truthfully claim a role while at the same time lie about your alignment. So I'm simply asking if there are strong balancing issues with scum having a JOAT.

As claimed, it's probably too much. I don't really believe he has a vig shot though and there's nothing wrong with a mafia doctor.

[rezombad]

We did not know Jamie's alignment before I killed him. His flip didn't happen until imopen opened the day up again. Therefore there was no time where you could make the decision to doc Rez "since Jamie flipped town." Jamie hadn't flipped town yet.

I'm not sure where you went wrong but read it again. Jamie flipped six days before Day started.

Each player has both a role and an alignment. You can truthfully claim a role while at the same time lie about your alignment. So I'm simply asking if there are strong balancing issues with scum having a JOAT.

As claimed, it's probably too much. I don't really believe he has a vig shot though and there's nothing wrong with a mafia doctor.

You can vote for him now

[rezombad]

Him being witchhunt

[Stardust]

Don't be hasty, little hobbit.

[rcwraspy]

We did not know Jamie's alignment before I killed him. His flip didn't happen until imopen opened the day up again. Therefore there was no time where you could make the decision to doc Rez "since Jamie flipped town." Jamie hadn't flipped town yet.

I'm not sure where you went wrong but read it again. Jamie flipped six days before Day started.

My apologies then. I didn't see the date on it, and only read the flip after day opened back up. I typically just look to see who the last poster is in a thread. Since it was imopen, I didn't bother looking at it because I thought it was just "jamie's dead."

[rezombad]

Don't be hasty, little hobbit.

Either vote witch, or do the read you've been talking about doing since day 2, or shut up and get hung.

[rcwraspy]

vote witchhunt

[Stardust]

So, yeah, it seems like WitchHunt might have known that Jamie was town the way he talks about him Day 1.

In regards to LMD and Red, LMD's posts are usually pretty short like this. I have to remind myself to keep my eye on him when he plays, so your head's in the right area there. Red on the other hand I feel like he has a little more content than you're giving him credit for. He was one of the first people on Dech's case about the "I have reasons" bit. I'm going to reread through his posts and see if it gives me a more solid opinion of him.

This right here I feel should be revealing as far as a potential partner, but I can't quite figure it. The way he talks about Red strikes me as a strange way to approach a scum buddy, but the difference in treatment between LMD (town) and Red (?) here is striking.

There's a few random quotes that sound pretty townie to me, for example this post, but his interactions with Jamie early Day 1 strike me as pretty scummy. He waffles a bit, though it's not uncommon for town WitchHunt to be at least a little noncommital as far as I remember.

I'll admit it's somewhat of an unconscious habit of mine, but I prefer not to just throw my vote around. If you look at my previous games I do have a tendency not to vote on someone unless I'm sure. Looking back on your statement toward me, just because I've stated I have you on my radar, doesn't mean I'm gunning for your lynch.

rezmo questioned WitchHunt on this, though not very doggedly.

God, I guess I have to reread things over.
I'm not really happy of your choice of letting Jamie go without getting anything more from him than a simple handwave.

I'm not digging this. I've been progressively getting a more townie vibe from Jamie as he posts, he's trying harder and bringing up some pretty reasonable points. This reaction struck me as iffy.

Again, talking to Red in a way I might not expect of a scum buddy. Could be fabricated, I guess.

WitchHunt and rezmo fight a bit Day 3. No strong read here either way though. Because we're in mylo, bussing is easy, and though this doesn't feel forced or fabricated, it does feel a bit out of place considering the rest of WitchHunt's actions that Day. Not sure. The fact that rezombad came back with a counterclaim of his own is also really hard to read. As they say, if you're going to bus, bus hard.




rezombad also felt pretty townie Day 1, but it's tough to tell for sure with his lack of detail. Questions WitchHunt a bit. Actually, it's a bit weird that rezombad has interactions with only me, Dechs and WitchHunt. With me he was asking for more detail, and I was posting more than most, so that's fine. With Dechs the interaction didn't start coming until later, when Dechs was close to being lynched. With WitchHunt, though, it was scattered, hard pressed and not really followed up on. I could see that being fabricated for distance, but it's no scum tell. A similar trend is shown in Day 3 as well.

rezombad came out in defense of Jamie early in Day 2, with this being his breadcrumb presumably. This is a cop crumb for sure, so if rezombad is lying, I think it's likely he'd already planned his claim by this point (or at least put this down to keep that option open). His questions of me here feel pretty good, and feel like they're coming from a decent place. Hrm. At least, that's true until he asks Jamie for a T/S list.

Defends LMD a bit, then ducks out for the remainder of the Day. Overall, feeling fairly townie Day 2, but I'm not sure what to make of his later interactions with Jamie given the cop claim.

Day 3 starts with him attacking me. His case is extremely weak, he still hasn't explained that mystery post and I actually do agree with WitchHunt that it feels desperate somehow. However, that could also be scum WitchHunt latching onto that. The progression into the counterclaim thing seems okay, but I don't like rezombad's claim itself. I do, however, like how he's posted about my being slow today.

Overall, based on behaviour, rezmo feels townie for the most part. Two things that really bug me are his disappearance Day 2 and the interactions with those wagons, and the fact that he apparently targeted hamfactorial with a cop shot. He is, so far, our only claimed investigative role, so that lends a bit of credit.




Red... man, Red... He just feels so townie to me, all the time. He posted a fair bit, but didn't really do anything noteworthy Day 1 other than delay getting involved (because he was sick). When he did get involved, he sunk his teeth into DK, then unvoted after learning he was a neutral. Neutral-hunting is something that scum sometimes do, and I think Red knows that. It's possible that he got off this wagon for that reason, except that this here is not neutral hunting since he was already caught. Lynching him eliminates a serious distraction to town (at best), so overall, Red's unvote hurt town. He's also a fair bit more sure that DK is neutral than I felt, perhaps because he knew DK was not mafia, therefore had to be neutral.

Red does a bunch of stuff that feels town, but doesn't really show a town mindset (though I can't find an apparent scum mindset either). He's making votes and playing the game, but it's tough to read his underlying intentions here. Third on the Jamie wagon... oh fuck yeah, this post was really solid. Red feels pretty town overall.



Ugh, not a fan of this really. WitchHunt is probably scum, but that's based more on modgaming and a botched claim than behaviour. There's an outside chance that imopen is just a really weird game designer, you know? But no. He has to be the lynch today. Problem is, I don't have a really strong candidate for his scum buddy. rezombad feels worse, but is the only claimed investigative role. Red feels better, but has nothing that actually points to him being town beyond that feeling. That bothers me a lot since this really should be pretty easy at this point of the game. The fact that I can't find a buddy makes me wonder if he doesn't have one.

I think at this point I don't care though. At least I've done my due diligence.

Vote WitchHunt.

[imopen2]

That's a lynch!

Vote count #9:

Witchhunt(5): red, rez, ham, rcw, stardust
Rez(1): Witchhunt
Not Voting(0):
With 6 alive, it is 4 to lynch

Witchhunt has been gunned down by the citizens of Charming.

He was:
June Stahl - Role Blocker/Role Cop - Scum

It is now Night 3. Do not post. All night actions must be submitted by Saturday 2/28 at 11:59pm Central Standard Time. Day will begin sometime on Sunday or Monday.

[imopen2]

Charming awakens to find rcwraspy dead...despite the best efforts of the town. You can't save a man from an exploding bullet.

He was:
Jax Teller - 1-shot vig - Town

It is now Day 4:

With 4 alive, it's 3 to lynch

[rezombad]

Stardust is town

[rezombad]

vote rednihilist

I have town results on ham and dusty.

Game over.

[hamfactorial]

[Stardust]

Haha, you know what's awesome? Protecting the right target two nights in a row and still failing both times despite my ability successfully resolving.

It's time for a 100% complete mass claim. I'm a doctor, no bells and whistles. Tara Knowles, I think is her name? I'll check tomorrow.

If anyone else did not claim every aspect of their role previously, please do so. hammy, I'm looking at you here.

[RedNihilist]

Vote rezombad

Thanks for cutting this game short, at least I don't have to ISO you and Stardust.

[Stardust]

RedNihilist, please claim flavour. Also, if you were scum, who would you have killed last night and why?

rezombad, please claim flavour. Also, you seemed quite certain that I was scum yesterday. How certain are you that I'm not a Godfather?

[rezombad]

Wayne unser.

100%

[RedNihilist]

Gemma Teller-Morrow, mother raspy, wife of somebody, former wife of somebody else etc etc.
If I were scum I guess I'd kill the cop.

[RedNihilist]

Now that I think about it, what do you mean by this?

Haha, you know what's awesome? Protecting the right target two nights in a row and still failing both times despite my ability successfully resolving.

[Stardust]

Wayne unser.

100%

Why? What made you go from "shut up and get hung" to 100% in such a short time?

[Stardust]

Gemma Teller-Morrow, mother raspy, wife of somebody, former wife of somebody else etc etc.
If I were scum I guess I'd kill the cop.

Would you? When the cop was one of the three remaining players under suspicion?

Seems to me that in either case (killing rcw or killing rezombad) you would have ended up as one of two possible lynches (either you and rezombad, like in this case, or you and me if you chose to kill the cop). Why is this such an easy choice for you?

Now that I think about it, what do you mean by this?

Haha, you know what's awesome? Protecting the right target two nights in a row and still failing both times despite my ability successfully resolving.

I targeted kpaca and rcwraspy the last two nights. I confirmed with imopen that my ability resolved Night 2, and based on the flavour of Day 4's opening I'm assuming it resolved again.

[RedNihilist]

Gemma Teller-Morrow, mother raspy, wife of somebody, former wife of somebody else etc etc.
If I were scum I guess I'd kill the cop.

Would you? When the cop was one of the three remaining players under suspicion?

Seems to me that in either case (killing rcw or killing rezombad) you would have ended up as one of two possible lynches (either you and rezombad, like in this case, or you and me if you chose to kill the cop). Why is this such an easy choice for you?

I'm not sure I'm following you here.
I mean, I get your general idea of keeping rezombad alive in order to enlarge the mislynch pool, but in that scenario I think I'd rather avoid being caught as scum.

Now that I think about it, what do you mean by this?

Haha, you know what's awesome? Protecting the right target two nights in a row and still failing both times despite my ability successfully resolving.

I targeted kpaca and rcwraspy the last two nights. I confirmed with imopen that my ability resolved Night 2, and based on the flavour of Day 4's opening I'm assuming it resolved again.[/quote]

So you're telling me that you've failed while not being roleblocked?

[RedNihilist]

PS: f*ck quotes.

[rezombad]

Wayne unser.

100%

Why? What made you go from "shut up and get hung" to 100% in such a short time?

The fact that I got a town result on you.

Modgaming: godfather might be viable, except a godfather with protection seems kind of op to counteract the numerous killing roles we've seen (big, bomb, SK).

[hamfactorial]

Haha, you know what's awesome? Protecting the right target two nights in a row and still failing both times despite my ability successfully resolving.

It's time for a 100% complete mass claim. I'm a doctor, no bells and whistles. Tara Knowles, I think is her name? I'll check tomorrow.

If anyone else did not claim every aspect of their role previously, please do so. hammy, I'm looking at you here.

Sure thing. I'm Clay Morrow, I'm a 1-shit bulletproof town. No other abilities.

There's something in my role PM that I can't state publicly, but it contradicts what Jamie said about my involvement in the OP murder of Donna Winston.

[hamfactorial]

LOL, just noticed I said 1-shit.

Anyway, I've been role-playing all game, calling everyone son and being arrogant, like my character on the show.

[Stardust]

@rezombad, that makes sense. Whoever the last scum is clearly has some cool powers aside from Godfather.

@hammy, that makes sense too. Pretty much makes rezmo out to be town based just on the fact that he's the only investigative role.

I'm not sure I'm following you here.
I mean, I get your general idea of keeping rezombad alive in order to enlarge the mislynch pool, but in that scenario I think I'd rather avoid being caught as scum.

But you wouldn't be caught since rezmo could be scum himself. A scum rezmo has two options - fake a town result on someone and try to get the other lynched, or fake a scum result on someone and try to get them lynched.

Here's what I wrote to imopen last night. Maybe that'll make things more clear.

---

So... maybe this isn't so easy. I was thinking what I would do in Red's shoes, and I think he'll kill rezombad because no matter which of us rezombad cops, Red's the likely lynch. I don't think killing rezombad would make sense for scum in my position, but I also don't think everyone will see it that way. I've reread and am at maybe 75% certainty that Red's the last scum, based primarily on modgaming the fact that rezmo is the only claimed investigative role. If I protect rcw and rezmo dies, will I be lynched? If I protect rezmo and rcw dies, will my doctor claim have any credibility at all?



I guess I should really ask myself whether I can beat Red one on one. I think I probably can? He probably thinks I could too, so maybe wouldn't even target rezombad, hoping the cop shot will be taken as WIFOM (as it probably should be, all else being equal).

I also need to factor in the fact that saving someone's life here means we get an extra lynch. That's a big deal, so picking correctly is very important, especially since that likely clears me as town. I wouldn't withhold my kill to gain town cred if it meant giving the town an extra lynch.

Red is scum: If I target rezombad and save him, we win, for sure, no question. If I target rezombad and rcw dies... rezombad's cop shot hopefully wins the day. If I target rcw and rezmo dies, it's a coin flip between me and Red, and if I target rcw and save him, we win for sure.

rezmo is scum: If I target rezombad, rcw dies, and rezombad's cop shot probably wins him the game one way or the other - if he's smart he'll clear someone as town. If I target rcw I for sure save him, giving us two lynches. Lynch rezombad's target, then lynch rezombad would be the right play then, guaranteeing us the win.

So targeting rezombad either guarantees us the win or probably makes us lose. Targeting rcw either guarantees us the win or gets us a coin flip. There's also the fact that rezmo is guaranteed to target rcw, while Red is maybe 50/50, so there's overall a higher chance that he's the target.

tl;dr: Nothing changes. I'm protecting rcw.

So you're telling me that you've failed while not being roleblocked?

I didn't fail. The people I was protecting just happened to die despite my best intentions! Apparently due to exploding bullets. No clue how they survived killing kpaca, but I'm glad kpaca's bomb ability didn't kill everyone who was targeting him that Day (which I've seen before). That's why I asked imopen about kpaca's role details yesterday, because I wanted to know if the scum were protected or if kpaca's bomb was shut down.

I think I'm pretty much ready to vote RedNihilist. He's shown multiple times now that he's extremely good at dodging my scumdar. I've got a town read on both the possibilities, and rezmo has his claim to help him out. I think that's all I need. If this makes rezmo win, he's played a great game and deserves it. Unless I'm right, I guess, in which case townrezmo didn't do that great a job after all.

Vote RedNihilist.

[hamfactorial]

I did a read-through of the posts since start of day and I'm fairly confused by the whole thing. Some of it stems from trying to read at work.

@ Stardust, why are you able to chat with rezombad at night?

[Stardust]

Uh, what?

[hamfactorial]

Oh, I misread that. You were chatting with imopen, not rez.

[hamfactorial]

Stardust:

Who did you protect night 1?