R/W Aggro

[Mcdonalds]

Good against all abzan, heroic, jeskai, mardu. Medium vs. control, and constellation, bad against sidisi whip and slightly unfavorable against most decks that don't care about stormbreath dragon.

Perfect

[Khaospawn]

[Lightning_Dolt]

That's a really good assessment.

I'm also on the 2 brimaz / 2 Phoenix in the flex slots plan. Working well so far.

[Valdarith]

I might switch back to that configuration as well. I feel like my tokens matchup is already strong so I really don't care how poorly positioned it is against them.

[LP, of the Fires]

Can someone here make a compelling argument for outpost siege over Chandra?

[Valdarith]

Nope. I keep trying but I really like Chandra. She's such a huge tempo play.

I'm back on the Ashcloud Phoenix bandwagon. Here's the 75 I'm planning on running at the PPTQ this Saturday:

[deck]
Creatures (16)
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (20)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
2 Valorous Stance
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (24)
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
9 Mountains
4 Plains

Sideboard (15)
3 Erase
2 Wild Slash
3 Glare of Heresy
3 Hushwing Gryff
2 Arc Lightning
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
[/deck]

My 60 is set in stone. The sideboard is something I'm looking to tune. I feel like I want some tech against control like Outpost Siege. Wild Slash may be too low impact to play in the board as I feel like I'm already a favorite against the decks I'd bring it in for.

[Aodh]

Abzan Advantage over Erase? Wild Slash -> 1 Chandra 1 Siege?

[Khaospawn]

Can someone here make a compelling argument for outpost siege over Chandra?

It's hard to kill, especially in Game 1.

When you're behind, it's extra draw for you to attempt to get ahead.

When you're ahead, it will close out the game fast. Your tokens become such a huge threat, especially with multiple Sieges out on Dragons.

Check out Mark Nestico's article on his PTQ winning RW list, which uses Siege. http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30 ... Stuff.html

[LP, of the Fires]

Scouring sand is kinda necessary for queen. Arc dont cut it.

[LP, of the Fires]

If you play siege, you can justify hostilities.

[Khaospawn]

Sands is only for decks that feature both Raise the Alarm and Outburst. It's actually pretty bad against the decks that play Hornet Queen because the only thing it will hit is the hornet tokens, and not even the queen.

Outpost Siege, however, is good at still getting damage in against the token menace.

[Valdarith]

Agree with Khaos re: Arc Lightning. It's great in the mirror at killing Rabblemaster and its token if he gets it down with me tapped out. It also doesn't look stupid when I need to clear out a blocker with toughness 2 or 3.

[Khaospawn]

I love me some Arc Lightning. It's also 3 to face when needed.

[LP, of the Fires]

I bring in sands a lot. You randomly free-roll value from it when they block rabble tokens and you start offing x-2s.

[Valdarith]

Yeah I've done that before too, but I still find it less flexible than Arc Lightning when it comes to postboard games. I'd bring in Arc Lightning vs tokens, Queen decks, and the mirror, but I wouldn't bring in Sands against the mirror.

[Valdarith]

[deck]
Creatures (16)
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (20)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
2 Valorous Stance
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (24)
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Evolving Wilds
10 Mountain
5 Plains

Sideboard (15)
3 Erase
3 Glare of Heresy
3 Hushwing Gryff
2 Arc Lightning
2 Outpost Siege
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
[/deck]

Final list. Swapped Wild Slash for Outpost Siege as it's a bit more high impact and flexible.

[dpaine88]

Thanks for the lists and discussions guys. It was very helpful today as i've barely got to play magic past month or two.
I used the lists you have been discussing past few days and went with a 2/2 Brimaz/Phoenix and also played Outpost Seige over Chandra in the main.

Went 7-2 at SCG Regionals ending up 26th out of 411 players- the biggest of all regionals.

Lost to a guy who top8 with Junk midrange who I had dead to rights and topdecked the exact cards in the exact order to win.

However in game 2 I mulled to 6 but had turn 4 Outpost Seige. My oppenent proceeded to cast Rhino on the next three consectuvie turns, and I still won.

Outpost Seige was bonkers all day, despite never naming Dragons. It just never came up as I usually had it on turn 4 when it was close or scryed it to bottom in early turns looking for land.

The fact that it basically never dies is worth it over Chandra in my opinion, it was like a Phrexian Arena. Certainly won many other games for me too.
Many games the board was clear by turn 4 and playing this just put me wayy ahead.

I also lost to a mirror where I got mana screwed 2 games and he curved very well.

[Khaospawn]

I went 6-3 with my list. However, I did a 1/1 split on Chandra and Siege and they were both good. I won games I had no business winning because of Chandra, and vice versa.

[Pedrobear]

[deck]
Creatures (16)
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (20)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
2 Valorous Stance
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (24)
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Evolving Wilds
10 Mountain
5 Plains

Sideboard (15)
3 Erase
3 Glare of Heresy
3 Hushwing Gryff
2 Arc Lightning
2 Outpost Siege
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
[/deck]

Final list. Swapped Wild Slash for Outpost Siege as it's a bit more high impact and flexible.

I played the exact same list to our 20player PPTQ. Scrumped hard to 2/3 finally losing out of top 4. Then I heard they all splitted because THEY WERE NOT FUCKING AWARE OF THE QUALIFICATION and none of them could go to the PTQ.

The deck joked me a lot, with mana full/death and almost mulliganed every game.

But for the last "normal" games it was awesome.

I was expecting a classic metagame but instead I only faced aggro rogue decks, maybe I should have kept 2 Wild Slash maindeck instead of 2 Phoenix to pressure control decks.

Thank you guys for reassuring me that is a good deck, I tilited the whole day.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Tilt happens. If you figure out how to get past it, let me know.

I scrubbed out in modern and lost my lead in the league mulls to 4/ floods (on 19 lands) / bullshit topdecks from opponents all day. I was tilting hard. Conceded to my friend in the last round because the difference between last and second last isn't worth having to play against Egg-sendancy.

[Khaospawn]

I dont tilt very often anymore. I just tell myself to do the best I can, play 1 game at a time, and enjoy myself. In the rare instance I punt, i take it to heart that I'll never make that mistake again.

The game is its own reward, yo.

[Khaospawn]

Hell, sometimes you mull into oblivion and sometimes you hit the nuts. Sometimes your opponent has all the answers and sometimes they make mistake after mistake. In all these instances, you can't control it. Just accept it and move on.

[Khaospawn]

Tilt, much like the occasional bout of depression, is most often times caused by expectations.


Lose your expectations and you'll notice a difference. Just don't forget to have fun.

[Valdarith]

Tilt less, drink more.

[Khaospawn]

It works for me.

[LP, of the Fires]

I rarely tilt during games as I'm pretty good at blowing off steam between rounds and because most everything bad that happens is usually your fault somewhere along the way.

That, and any time my opponent tilts and does something aweful, I get to tell them there making emotional decisions and inwardly chuckle because that's now a running gag in my playtest group.

[nme]

Best way to get over tilt is to come to the realization that you're not as good as you think are, and that magic is a game of variance with a really high skill ceiling in mechanical play and deck building. There is always room for improvement and getting mad isn't going to get you anywhere.

That's easier said than done though, it's easy to blame top decks and mana screw.

[Pedrobear]

Best way to get over tilt is to come to the realization that you're not as good as you think are, and that magic is a game of variance with a really high skill ceiling in mechanical play and deck building. There is always room for improvement and getting mad isn't going to get you anywhere.

That's easier said then done though, it's easy to blame top decks and mana screw.

It took me one day to realize it but now I'm fine with it. If they were good players I would have deal with it but all my loss were to newcomers (the ones who didn't know there was a RPTQ after that). My last competitive turnament was months ago so I was expecting a lot by playing it. It doesn't help either.

Drinking also help but there is no beer available at our LGS in France

[Khaospawn]

Just bring your own, dude. Bring an opaque cup with a lid.

[Khaospawn]

And for fuck's sake, keep it away from the kids.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Best way to get over tilt is to come to the realization that you're not as good as you think are, and that magic is a game of variance with a really high skill ceiling in mechanical play and deck building. There is always room for improvement and getting mad isn't going to get you anywhere.

That's easier said than done though, it's easy to blame top decks and mana screw.

I like to think I have the integrity to acknowlege when it's me vs when it's variance. When my opponent has 4 outs in his deck and rips one, I acknowledge that he got lucky but it doesn't help. When I mull to 4, I know it's bad luck, but it doesn't help. When someone I basically taught to play magic like a year ago beats me in the mirror because I draw 8 of 19 lands in spite of deck thinning and he draws 2 of his 3 dragons claws and I draw 0/4 Destructive Revelry and 0/3 Kor Firewalker, I know that's a bad beat. I just don't know how to avoid getting salty. He's overtaken me for lead of the league to boot.

[Khaospawn]

It's not about how hard you hit. It's about how hard can you get hit and still get up.

I think I heard that in a Rocky movie.

[Khaospawn]

More people legitimately care about Cory Feldman's acting career than they do about Magic: the Gathering.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Thanks Mav. Those are all good points. How do you track your wins?

[stuffydollfan]

I have taken the deck to FNM for 2 weeks in a row and so far I've been scrubbing out hard. Could be that I don't know how to optimally play the deck yet, or maybe the control match up, which is heavy in my meta, is not a favorable one.

[NoArms]

Interesting discussion, particularly the point about the win ratio for pro players and a players perception of how good they may or may not be and how we rationalize things.

Anyway, I played a very similar 60 to Khaospawn's deck on the page 5 at last weeks FNM and went 3-1. The match I lost was against Abzan and I felt it could've gone either way. I was also very surprised how resilient this deck seems to be going longer into the game. In the end I lost to Elspeth in one game and Whip in the the second, I think I sideboarded correctly but just didn't draw the Erase I needed for the Whip.

I think I'll play R/W for at least one of the Game Days this weekend.

I'll no doubt spend the next couple days trying to figure out what others there will play and over analyze things that are out of my control anyway. Like how I'm going to improve my chances against the villainous wealth deck a friend will be playing, when in reality I'll probably end up not playing against him at all.

[Khaospawn]

Yeah, Whip decks are the absolute worst for us.

[Valdarith]

People still play Whip decks?

[Jamie]

not really

[Khaospawn]

When they're metagaming for RW, they sure as fuck do.