[Primer] UR Delver

[Valdarith]

No place for Trespass

The better question is if Tasigur finds a place in Modern

4/5 on turn two that isn't Goyf seems legit.

[Kaitscralt]

I think so too.

[MattT]

No place for Trespass

The better question is if Tasigur finds a place in Modern

4/5 on turn two that isn't Goyf seems legit.

Perhaps even Soulflayer. Trying that out with Judge´s Familar & Oona´s Prowler.

Darkblast/Thought Scour + 2 Fetches or Fetch + Gitxian Probe isn't asking much.

[Platypus]

Grixis Delver with 3x Tasigur and 3x YP seems to have established itself as the preferred Delver version. The deck is the fifth played archetype on MTGO right after Burn, and it's putting up decent results.

For my own part I'm gathering the last few pieces for the deck, and would welcome any discussions on it.

[Toddington]

I played Grixis Delver a bit, and absolutely hated Thought Scour'ing my shocklands. This is definitely exacerbated with a three colour manabase. I actually think the removal is the real reason to splash black, not just for Tasigur.

[Valdarith]

I played Grixis Delver a bit, and absolutely hated Thought Scour'ing my shocklands. This is definitely exacerbated with a three colour manabase.

I don't understand.

[Valdarith]

Grixis Delver with 3x Tasigur and 3x YP seems to have established itself as the preferred Delver version. The deck is the fifth played archetype on MTGO right after Burn, and it's putting up decent results.

For my own part I'm gathering the last few pieces for the deck, and would welcome any discussions on it.

I personally feel like three Tasigur is one too many.

1) His activated ability will usually return low-impact spells. Sure, it is card advantage, but it's rather expensive.
2) He presents diminishing returns due to being legendary.
3) 4/5 can't attack through Siege Rhino.

I would prefer a 2/2 split on Tasigur and Gurmag Angler (yes, I understand it's easier to cast Tasigur on turn 2 than Angler). Might brew something up and post later as I've been interested in playing with those two cards.

[Platypus]

I've seen lists with a 1/4 Tasigur/Angler split. I certainly understand the appeal of Angler, but I wonder about the slight increase in casting cost vs Tasigur. But this is without any testing. I'm not sure about Tasigur's ability either, so it's mainly the big cheap body that's interesting. I might start with a 2/1 split and go from there.

[Valdarith]

[deck]
Creatures (15)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler

Spells (27)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Terminate
1 Electrolyze
1 Murderous Cut

Lands (18)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Darkblast
1 Vandalblast
1 Dispel
1 Spell Pierce
2 Rending Volley
1 Flashfreeze
1 Rakdos Charm
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Counterflux
1 Negate
1 Izzet Staticaster
[/deck]

This is where I'm going to begin.

[Platypus]

My maindeck would probably look similar. What's your thoughts on that 2/1 split between Terminate and Murderous Cut? It's usually the other way around, but then they have one less Delve creature. Is that the main reason?

1x Keranos and 1x Batterskull are frequent SB alternatives, any thoughts on those?

[Valdarith]

Two reasons:

1) I'm running 2 Tasigur and 2 Angler, and 5 feels like the sweet spot for delve spells.

2) Terminate is a bit more friendly with Snapcaster Mage and can be more reliably cast on turn two.

As for Batterskull/Keranos, I considered the latter but I'm not certain it will be necessary since we're running a more powerful deck thanks to the black splash. UR Delver typically wanted one of these vs control but I feel like Tasigur and Angler may be good enough.

One thing I do want to try in my Snapcaster deck is Kologhan's Command.

[stuffydollfan]

Can anyone tell me how this deck stacks up versus all the other modern top tier decks? I'm thinking about building this and would like to get an idea of what to expect. I was looking at the grixis version of the deck.

[Platypus]

It's hard to say, since it isn't as established as the top tier decks (Affinity, Twin, Junk, and Burn). Currently it's at second most played (9.18%) on MTGGoldfish, which of course doesn't mean it's getting results. But people clearly think it has potential. I'd say tier 1.5 until we get more data from big events.

[RedNihilist]

I'm testing 3 Tasigur, 0 Angler, 4 Snapcasters and 3 YP$.
Kolaghan's Command is absurdly powerful in this deck.

(Kudos to Toddington for suggesting it in my Grixis Twin brew)

[Valdarith]

The deck is slightly better than it was when it was UR pre-Cruise printing, which is to say it's firmly between tier 1 and 1.5.

[Valdarith]

[deck]
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler

Spells (28)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Deprive
3 Mana Leak
1 Terminate
2 Electrolyze
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Murderous Cut

Lands (18)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Vandalblast
2 Dispel
1 Spell Pierce
2 Rending Volley
1 Flashfreeze
1 Negate
1 Rakdos Charm
4 Dragon's Claw
1 Izzet Staticaster
[/deck]

Running this in today's daily. In paper I run 2x Tasigur, 2x Angler, and 1x Cut, plus a Counterflux in the board. I swapped the Counterflux for the fourth Dragon's Claw due to the popularity of burn online and how hilariously bad this deck is against it. Also note that there are 0 Remand in this deck. I'm interested to see how the deck runs without it.

[Valdarith]

Aaaaaand I just 4-0d the daily.

2-0 vs Burn (!!!)
2-1 vs Mono Green Stompy (!!!)
2-1 vs Twin
2-1 vs Twin

Being able to win two of my worst matchups was great. Green Stompy was a very close game with me able to outrace two Dungrove Elders at 5/5 thanks to Gurmag Angler and Young Pyromancer + tokens.

Speaking of the zombie fish, he was worth his weight in gold today. The extra point of power matters A LOT more than I initially thought. I think the 2/2 split of him and Tasigur is correct.

I got to use Tasigur's ability once, but hit a Delver on the mill late in the game for daggers. I was ahead anyway though. The ability is still nice, and I like him being one mana cheaper as it makes casting him early more likely.

Kolaghan's Command was pretty nifty. I got to fire off the discard + shock your Pestermite mode vs Twin and I loved it. No other modes used yet.

4 Dragon's Claws vs burn was amazing. Drew one in my opener and topdecked the second on turn three. My opponent fought against it valiantly since he had me low early but he simply could not power through them. Gurmag Angler was an all-star in the matchup as well.

Basically, delve is overpowered and this deck is a lot better than it was back in the pre-Khans days. It has a ton of play to it and I love it.

[Platypus]

I like that list, feels good for the metagame around here (a recent tournament was very heavy on Burn and Twin).

What would you drop for the second Tasigur?

[Valdarith]

Either the second Gurmag Angler or the second Murderous Cut. I think 5 delve spells is about the max you can have, but if you want to test six I think Spell Pierce would be the best cut.

[Khaospawn]

Good job, Val!

[Valdarith]

Good job, Val!

[rcwraspy]

Congrats on the 4-0.

Glad to see a good delver list again. Will sleeve

[Khaospawn]

10/10, would flip again during the upkeep.

[Valdarith]

10/10, would flip again during the upkeep.

FWIW I had TERRIBLE luck flipping my Delvers today. I was probably around 25% on all my reveals.

Also, would you keep this hand on the play against an unknown opponent?

4 lands, 3 Delver of Secrets.

I decided to keep, drew two more lands, and never flipped my Delvers over five turns against mono green beats. Thankfully I still won that match.

[Khaospawn]

I'd keep because I'm greedy like that.

[Valdarith]

I thought so too. If I flip all three on turn three I can't lose, and if I flip the first on turn two I feel like I'm still in a good situation against many decks. It didn't work out, but I don't think that means the keep was wrong.

I would never keep that hand on the draw though.

[rcwraspy]

I'm really conservative with keeps. I mulligan maybe more than I should but would mull that. Unknown opponent you want to see a little interaction and 4 lands often leads to floods.

[LP, of the Fires]

I'd snap keep, and ask my friends why they would or wouldn't keep. Then I'd snap keep again.

[LP, of the Fires]

It's probably correct to mull though.

[BrainsickHater]

I picked up Grixis Delver and just thought I'd share my experiences. Here's my list:

[deck]
Lands (18)
1 Blood Crypt
1 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave

Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Gurmag Angler
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Young Pyromancer

Instants/Sorceries (28)
2 Deprive
2 Electrolyze
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Mana Leak
2 Murderous Cut
2 Remand
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
1 Terminate
3 Thought Scour

Sideboard:
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Blood Moon
1 Dispel
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flashfreeze
1 Minister of Pain
1 Negate
1 Shattering Spree
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spellskite
1 Vandalblast
[/deck]

On the deck in general:
As to the viability of the deck, I find your matchups against decks which have trouble interacting with your creatures to be incredibly favorable. Clock + disruption and all that. Tasigur is insane versus Twin, and 1-2 cmc Murder is amazing against Abzan, Infect, and Twin. The addition of black really enables delver decks to play the delver plan imo. Before you got pretty stonewalled by a Siege Rhino and all your threats died to a sneeze. Now you have a huge beater that dodges bolt and Abrupt Decay and you can take care of anything that gets in your way.

The weakness of the deck is that it can be a bit of a dog to decks that can deal with all of its threats. Decks playing Path + Snapcaster + Bolt will generally have little trouble keeping your field clear. If they are additionally playing threats that are difficult for you to deal with, the matchup can be very difficult. When playing against decks like Abzan, it's imperative to be frugal with your Murderous Cuts and Terminates as insurance against Siege Rhino.

On choices in my list:
My 5 Delve spells are 2x Murderous Cut, 2x Tasigur, and 1x Gurmag Angler. I've played with 3x Tasigur and I ran into the legend awkwardness more than I'd like, so I switched to one angler. So far there has only been one game where I was unable to cast a turn 2 Angler because of it's mana cost.

I've been absolutely loving Deprive, so I cut one of my mana leaks and added a second. Counterspell is a hell of a card.

You don't need basic mountain to play Blood Moon, so I switched my Mountain to a Sulfur Falls. Your mana is pretty demanding, you want to operate on 2-4 lands, but you need UU for Deprive and B and R for your other spells. I get that you are now unable to fetch a pain-free mountain, but I think it's worth it. It doesn't really affect your mulligans because you aren't keeping hands where your only land is a mountain, and your burn matchup is close to unwinnable before you get Dragon's claw anyway. If you're playing online, I can see playing a mountain, but I play almost exclusively paper magic.

I've been loving Kolaghan's Command. I wish I could play more, but 3 mana is a lot. The command has been great for me against Twin, where they oftentimes have to Bolt-Snap-Bolt your Tasigur, and then you get to kill the snappy regrow Tasigur and replay it. It's also great against Spellskite, where you get to kill a dude and the spellskite and they can't redirect it. The card is randomly insane, and I love it.

My sideboard is pretty eclectic. It's the whole modern thing of running effects which overlap but are slightly different. Minister of Pain is being tested, I wanted something like Sulfur Elemental which kills tokens and leaves behind a body, but my LGS meta has just as many red tokens as white. The split of Shattering Spree/Vandalblast is just because idk which one I want more so I'm trying both. Ashiok is also being tested. I wanted something like Keranos or Batterskull against control decks, and something like Sower or Jace AoT against Abzan. Ashiok pretty much nails that role (in theory). He(she?) also only costs 3 mana which is pretty nuts.

So yeah, that's my deck.

[LP, of the Fires]

3-2 FNM with grixis delver. Beat Merfolk, naya agro, Jund, lost to soul sisters, Abzan collected company(forgot to add a pillar of flame to my deck).

Deck was misbuilt, but notes:

1 electrolyze and 1 forked bolt seems better then 2 electrolyzes. Mana is at a premium. Bridges to second point.

Instant speeds nice, but not even that important. I was mostly killing stuff on my turn. I played the deck a lot like it was tapout control in games where I didn't have delver. Bridge to third point.

Counters suck. Going BH suggestion of just slamming multiple deprive. Good because it's both a hard counter, and when allows you to generate mana on your turn occasionally(cause not enough people play shit on there own turn).

Ashiok was great. Blood moon was great. These 3's are awesome.

Played 2 kolaghan's command, 1 main, one side. Card was one of the big incentives for me wanting to play the deck.

Probe: am I the only one that boards this out a lot? Yeah, screws up your manabase sometimes, but I don't care what's in there hand most of the time. This is NOT an indictment of the card because it is great.

Kinda want more terminate. Doom blades are awesome.

[Valdarith]

Your experiences align with mine pretty well. I've found myself continuing to go down on counters in the main. Spell Snare and Deprive are great but Mana Leak is the last card I want to topdeck after turn four. I may just cut Leak altogether and play a third Deprive. That leaves room for a third Spell Snare or a more proactive spell.

I've been running two Electrolyze and one Kolaghan's Command. My matchups so far haven't been good for Electrolyze and I've also noticed the 3 cmc being an issue. At least Command gets me back a Snapcaster or Tasigur. I'm actually considering Burst Lightning or Pillar of Flame instead.

I have yet to play Blood Moon and I feel advantaged in doing so because most other Delver players do, so when I go to postboard games my opponents play around the Blood Moon I don't even have.

I do side out Probe at times. Burn, the mirror, and any matchup where I board into a heavier counter suite will see me bring them out. I'm actually running only three in favor of running a higher impact spell.

Some people are cutting Young Peezy and I find this completely misguided. I've won games I would have easily lost by being able to go wide with Elemental tokens He is necessary to keep the deck aggressive and makes non-Delver hands so much better. I'm never sad to draw one. I have been trying 3 instead of 4 lately and I'm not sure which is correct. I think you want a 3/4 split of him and Snapcaster, but it's unclear to me which number belongs to which card.

[rcwraspy]

I do cut Probe fairly often also, mostly against decks where their cards are all fungible. Burn is a perfect example - every card does 3 dmg - but also because of the lifeloss in that matchup.

[zemanjaski]

Been crushing with this, YMMV

[deck]
Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer

Planeswalkers
2 Jace, Architect of Thought

Spells
2 Anticipate
1 Cryptic Command
1 Dispel
2 Electrolyze
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Logic Knot
4 Remand
2 Roast
4 Serum Visions
3 Spell Snare

Lands
1 Desolate Lighthouse
5 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls

SB (WIP)
1 Batterskull
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Blood Moon
2 Rending Volley
2 Roast
1 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Shatterstorm
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Sower of Temptation
[/deck]

[RedNihilist]

Delverless Delver?

[zemanjaski]

Yeah,I really like how it lines up against Twin and Abzan especially; I used to side out Delver against those decks, so now I am somewhat pre-sideboarded for them, which is very advantageous.

[LP, of the Fires]

never been a fan of logic knot and I think the archetype as a whole(UR flash decks including delver and twin) are soft to abzan company which is poised to be the most popular deck.

[Valdarith]

I've been doing more tuning of my list and have arrived at something I like after testing. I've been running this on MODO for the past couple of days and will be giving it a go at FNM tomorrow.

[deck]
Creatures (15)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler

Spells (27)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Burst Lightning
2 Mana Leak
2 Deprive
2 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Murderous Cut

Lands (18)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Dispel
1 Spell Pierce
2 Rending Volley
1 Vandalblast
1 Negate
1 Flashfreeze
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Spellskite
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Izzet Staticaster
[/deck]

I really like this list. I don't miss Electrolyze too much. Lingering Souls isn't a big problem because I just flood the board with 1/1s of my own. Having access to all four Young Pyromancer definitely makes up for the absence of Electrolyze, so people that are going down to three Young Peezy should probably play 1-2 Electrolyze to compensate for this. That said, I've tried playing less than four and immediately went back to three. He's a lot like Delver in that he gives some free wins, except he's a bit more grindy. I also went up to three Spell Snare in the maindeck. It's solid against the field right now with the only real misses being against Amulet, Tron, and Infect (only hits Agent and Apostle's Blessing), and we could use all the help we can get against Burn where this card really shines. I would never go as crazy as Zem and play four, but I think three is right on the edge.

In the board, I swapped out Counterflux for Dispel. This makes the Burn matchup a bit better and gives me some cheap interaction against combo and blue matchups. I've found the one mana from Dispel to be much more impactful than the uncounterable on Counterflux.

[Jack]

I'll probably be joining you guys here if I can get a few trades together and sell my standard shit. The deck looks sweet. Only thing I'm iffy on is 4 YP$. This iteration seems much slower than previous ones, and he's already a clunky card.

[Valdarith]

Play four. Trust me.