Primer: Mardu Midrange

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:24 am

Good stuff.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:18 am

My only source of confusion is what he's siding Sarkhan in for. Before he was bringing in Sarkhan and the 25th land while keeping in Stormbreaths vs Abzan Aggro and Midrange. I can't see him having a similar plan with only 24 lands in the 75 and one less Magma Jet than before.

Perhaps jsilv could enlighten us or provide the hookup?

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:19 am

Sorry for the hijack BTW. I'm getting crossed between this thread and RW aggro.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:19 am

Back to work!

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles ... e-phoenix/

eldub · Postby **eldub** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:38 pm

While I really do think Flamewake Phoenix is a big boost to Mardu, Sam is trying way too hard to 'maximize value' out of a few cards there instead of just playing the most powerful threats and answers on curve. He's stuck to that philosophy so well with his WR deck the last few weeks that my guess is we can chalk that list up to pre-release brewing and not an actual competitive list. Cards like Tymaret and Tormenting Voice are too bad on their own to be played in my opinion.

Looking forward to a few events before SCG Open LA in February, here is where I will be starting with my Mardu list for the gauntlet:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mardu-eldub/
[Deck=eldub Mardu FRF rev. 1/23/15]
Land (25)
3x Battlefield Forge
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Caves of Koilos
5x Mountain
4x Nomad Outpost
1x Swamp
3x Temple of Silence
3x Temple of Triumph

Creature (22)
2x Ashcloud Phoenix
4x Butcher of the Horde
4x Flamewake Phoenix
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
3x Seeker of the Way
4x Stormbreath Dragon

Instant (10)
4x Crackling Doom
2x Lightning Strike
1x Murderous Cut
1x Utter End
2x Valorous Stance

Enchantment (3)
3x Chained to the Rocks

Sideboard
2x Crux of Fate
2x Doomwake Giant
1x Erase
3x Hushwing Gryff
1x Liliana Vess
2x Read the Bones
4x Thoughtseize
[/deck]

edit: Made a few changes after a group testing session last night. Valorous Stance over-performed and was moved to main deck as just a great flexible 2cmc card. Second Ashcloud was added to complement Flamewake Phoenix as a great ferocious / flying threat that people often did not want to use Cut/Downfall/Stoke on.

I've taken Anger out due to the non-bo with the Phoenix's, but I do really miss having an exile answer to Hornet Queen. Put Doomwake Giant in it's place vs token generators. The G/B constellation deck in our gauntlet with Tasigur, Eidolon, Whip and Queens has been performing well and that matchup is pretty brutal if they get their engine online.

Crux of Fate has been great and it's possible I want three depending on how much G/x constellation/devotion pops up this weekend. I've really enjoyed the Dash mechanic on Kolaghan so far as it's a huge chunk of damage out of nowhere, especially if you have multiple dragons triggering his effect.

Finally, I messed with my mana base a bit to increase the scry land count to hopefully increase my consistency a bit. It seems to help but I don't think the mana base is perfect yet. Having a 5-6 Mountain deck bothers me a lot less now as Flamewake Phoenix is pretty hungry for red mana if you get to recurring multiples.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:49 am

After a few testing sessions I've arrived at this:

[deck]Creatures:20
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Sultai Emissary
2 Tymaret, the Murder King
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Butcher of the Horde
2 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury

Spells:17
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Crackling Doom
4 Hordeling Outburst
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor

Lands:23
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence
4 Mountain
4 Nomad Outpost
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard:15
3 Erase
3 Wild Slash
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Arc Lightning
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Outpost Seige
1 Dictate of Erebos[/deck]

Deck is playing really well. Me gusta.

Aodh · Postby **Aodh** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:55 am

You can probably shave a few black and white sources for another red source and fewer untapped lands, but the deck looks sick to me.

Aodh · Postby **Aodh** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:57 am

Is the new bird good in a deck that only recurs on Butcher? Seems like Butcher, Sarkhan, Stormbreath decks would recur better... I guess if you're not saccing to butcher, you just whack for 2.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:03 am

Bird dies often, but I like that it gets in, then gives you the flexibility to play butcher with haste for 5cc.

Manabase feels solid. It was designed by Sam Black.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:14 am

Or if it's in play, Haste + Lifelink or Attack for 7. Both of which are awesome.

Aodh · Postby **Aodh** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:19 pm

Bird dies often, but I like that it gets in, then gives you the flexibility to play butcher with haste for 5cc.

Manabase feels solid. It was designed by Sam Black.

Okay, cool; that's good to know.

The manabase might feel solid, but it's likely suboptimal. You want 13 black, 19 red (10 mountains), and 12 white, likely with as few tapped lands as possible. This deck achieves 15, 18 (10), and 14 on 12 taplands. I think we can do better.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:02 pm

Not sure how you're arriving there. I think it's really important to have tge scry / fixing though. This deck has no problem stalling if it needs to for cipt.

Self Medicated · Postby **Self Medicated** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:43 pm

How does Sultai Emissary perform? I can see the benefit of sacrificing him and immediately having a replacement body. Just wondering if there was another purpose I'm not seeing?

eldub · Postby **eldub** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:44 pm

Hey LD, cool looking deck. Any thought to running Mardu Ascension and/or Mardu Charm? The deck seems pretty soft to Drown/Anger post-board which I expect to see a lot of if Monastery Mentor picks up steam on top of the Rabblemaster decks.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:15 am

Aggro game one with the M.A.C daddy sideboard plan. Deck is rough and needs to be tuned some but it does powerful things.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Butcher of the Horde
3 Hordeling Outburst
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Crackling Doom
4 Flamewake Phoenix
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Lightning Strike
3 Monastery Mentor
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
2 Tormenting Voice
3 Thoughtseize
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands:
4 Nomad Outpost
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mana Confluence

SB
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Stormbreath Dragon
3 End Hostilities
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Read the Bones
2 Wild Slash[/deck]

eldub · Postby **eldub** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:04 am

Having only Butcher to trigger ferocious for Flamewake seems rough.

Any issues running 12 ETB tap lands with the lower curve?

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:11 am

+1 Sorin and any noncreature spell with Mentor out will trigger Flamewake too. Kind of a corner case though. I'd like to see some Stormbreath in the 60, but on 23 lands it may be better to just play Ashcloud Phoenix.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:52 pm

Kolaghan too, but it's really ok if flamewake dies for the reasons stated above. You have Ashcloud postboard as well.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:53 pm

How does Sultai Emissary perform? I can see the benefit of sacrificing him and immediately having a replacement body. Just wondering if there was another purpose I'm not seeing?

Ranges from worse than doomed traveller to completely ridiculous.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:55 pm

Hey LD, cool looking deck. Any thought to running Mardu Ascension and/or Mardu Charm? The deck seems pretty soft to Drown/Anger post-board which I expect to see a lot of if Monastery Mentor picks up steam on top of the Rabblemaster decks.

Drown doesn't matter that much, anger hurts. Just keep throwing haymakers.

PrimalBurn · Postby **PrimalBurn** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:39 pm

Played the Sam Black list from his FRF brewing article last night to an 4-0 finish. For reference:

[DECK]
Creatures:
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Merciless Executioner
4 Sultai Emissary
2 Tymaret, the Murder King

Spells:
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Outpost Siege
4 Crackling Doom
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Hordeling Outburst

Lands:
4 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence
4 Nomad Outpost
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
[/DECK]

Was by far the most fun I've had playing a standard deck in a long time. The deck just has so many angles of attack and sources of card advantage. Outpost Seige did not disappoint and I was able to use both the Chandra mode and the goblin bombardment mode to great effect. My favorite game was against a mono green devotion list. He had a fast start and got a arbor colossus going that I had to chump for several turns with raise the alarm and outburst tokens. I was eventually able to get 2 copies of outpost siege out one on khans the other on dragons. He plays several nylea diciples going up to the 40s in life, but runs out of gas. My siege finally draws me into several butchers and Im able to smash him in a few turns then finish him off by sacking all my tokens

. I think I found what Im playing for awhile in standard. This deck is doing everything I want to be doing in magic

windstrider · Postby **windstrider** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:11 pm

Played the Sam Black list from his FRF brewing article last night to an 4-0 finish. For reference:

[DECK]
Creatures:
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Merciless Executioner
4 Sultai Emissary
2 Tymaret, the Murder King

Spells:
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Outpost Siege
4 Crackling Doom
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Hordeling Outburst

Lands:
4 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Mana Confluence
4 Nomad Outpost
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
[/DECK]

Was by far the most fun I've had playing a standard deck in a long time. The deck just has so many angles of attack and sources of card advantage. Outpost Seige did not disappoint and I was able to use both the Chandra mode and the goblin bombardment mode to great effect. My favorite game was against a mono green devotion list. He had a fast start and got a arbor colossus going that I had to chump for several turns with raise the alarm and outburst tokens. I was eventually able to get 2 copies of outpost siege out one on khans the other on dragons. He plays several nylea diciples going up to the 40s in life, but runs out of gas. My siege finally draws me into several butchers and Im able to smash him in a few turns then finish him off by sacking all my tokens . I think I found what Im playing for awhile in standard. This deck is doing everything I want to be doing in magic

I really like the look of this list and have been thinking of something similar since I got to play with Sultai Emissary at the prerelease. I'm wondering about changing out one Outpost Siege for a Chandra, Pyromaster for the card draw and the falter effect she provides.

What did your sideboard look like?

PrimalBurn · Postby **PrimalBurn** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:23 pm

[DECK]
2 Flamewake Phoenix
1 Dictate or Erebos
3 Erase
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Glare of Heresy
4 Thoughtseize
[/DECK]

I was kinda lazy and just used that sideboard Sam had but most of the cards seemed relevant in my meta so I rolled with it. 1 Chandra 2 Seige sounds like a good mix to try out.

windstrider · Postby **windstrider** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:50 pm

Most appreciated. I hadn't seen that list before, but it looks like it's doing all the right things.

PrimalBurn · Postby **PrimalBurn** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:26 pm

Sam Black is my favorite player so I'm a sucker for most things he comes up with. The second I saw this I knew it was gonna be the first deck I tried when FRF came out.

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:45 pm

My list was basically trying to mash Pardee's and Black's lists together.

I feel like phoenix is good enough to have a place here. Kolaghan is also quite good.

PrimalBurn · Postby **PrimalBurn** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:53 pm

Yeah I was glad to see you using a lot of the same ideas in your list. Makes me feel like we're on the right track.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:57 pm

I wonder if the deck wants some number of Humble Defector. It seems at least as good as Sultai Emissary in a deck with Tymaret and Butcher.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:08 pm

Also interested to hear your thoughts on Outpost Siege vs Chandra. I feel like Chandra is better, especially in postboard games where enchantment hate is sure to come in for Chained, giving it more targets. Chandra seems to be more flexible since it can deal damage and draw extra cards at will, and you have a lot of things that can chump block.

PrimalBurn · Postby **PrimalBurn** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:09 am

Chandra is most likely better I was really just curious to see how outpost siege would perform. I was happy with it but you make good points about the enchantment hate. I'm also a sucker for any kind of goblin bombardment type effect I can find so that probably made me a little too eager to throw siege in

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:34 pm

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30 ... ntrol.html

PrimalBurn · Postby **PrimalBurn** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:25 pm

I liked a lot of things about BBDs list. Brutal hordechief was obviously a card I was considering, although its hard not to play butcher. The hordechief may just be outright better in this build.

Zooligan · Postby **Zooligan** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:29 pm

Chandra is most likely better I was really just curious to see how outpost siege would perform. I was happy with it but you make good points about the enchantment hate. I'm also a sucker for any kind of goblin bombardment type effect I can find so that probably made me a little too eager to throw siege in

Outpost G1 to draw the enchantment hate, then slide Chandra in post-board...

Lightning_Dolt · Postby **Lightning_Dolt** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:20 am

Brews from the open:

[deck=Mardu Aggro by Benjamin Nikolich, 10th Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 1/24/2015]

Creatures (18)
3 Akroan Hoplite
3 Brutal Hordechief
2 Butcher of the Horde
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Seeker of the Way

Spells (18)
4 Chained to the Rocks
2 Crackling Doom
2 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Wild Slash
4 Hordeling Outburst

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor

Lands (23)
4 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Mana Confluence
4 Nomad Outpost
3 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
2 Hushwing Gryff
2 Crackling Doom
2 Erase
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Arc Lightning
2 Glare of Heresy
3 Thoughtseize[/deck]

[deck=Mardu Midrange by Derek Campbell, 22nd Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 1/24/2015]
Creatures (10)
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury

Spells (22)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Crackling Doom
2 Lightning Strike
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Hordeling Outburst

Planeswalkers (3)
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor

Lands (25)
6 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Nomad Outpost
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
2 Hushwing Gryff
3 Erase
1 Utter End
1 Valorous Stance
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Thoughtseize[/deck]

[deck= Mardu Midrange by Jon Goss, 33rd Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 1/24/2015]
Creatures (21)
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Soulfire Grand Master
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (13)
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Crackling Doom
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Lightning Strike

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Lands (25)
5 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Nomad Outpost
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
3 Hushwing Gryff
2 Erase
1 Utter End
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Glare of Heresy
3 Thoughtseize[/deck]

[deck=Mardu Midrange by Robert Palevac, 38th Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 1/24/2015]
Creatures (23)
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Wingmate Roc

Spells (10)
4 Crackling Doom
2 Murderous Cut
4 Thoughtseize

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor

Lands (25)
3 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Caves of Koilos
4 Nomad Outpost
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
2 Bile Blight
2 Erase
1 Utter End
1 Valorous Stance
1 Arc Lightning
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 End Hostilities
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Read the Bones
[/deck]

[deck= Mardu Midrange by Richard Nguyen, 41st Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 1/24/2015]

Creatures (21)
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Soulfire Grand Master
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (13)
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Crackling Doom
4 Lightning Strike
1 Murderous Cut
1 Utter End

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Lands (25)
5 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Nomad Outpost
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
3 Hushwing Gryff
2 Erase
1 Utter End
3 Anger of the Gods
1 End Hostilities
2 Glare of Heresy
3 Thoughtseize[/deck]

[deck= Mardu Midrange by David Fulk, 43rd Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 1/24/2015]
Creatures (13)
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Soulfire Grand Master
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (18)
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Crackling Doom
4 Lightning Strike
1 Murderous Cut
2 Stoke the Flames
4 Hordeling Outburst

Planeswalkers (4)
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor

Lands (25)
6 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Nomad Outpost
3 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
2 Wingmate Roc
2 Erase
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Anger of the Gods
2 End Hostilities
1 Glare of Heresy
3 Read the Bones[/deck]

[deck= Mardu Midrange by Joshua Taylor, 55th Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 1/24/2015]
Creatures (11)
2 Butcher of the Horde
4 Seeker of the Way
2 Wingmate Roc
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos

Spells (19)
4 Crackling Doom
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Lightning Strike
4 Mardu Charm
2 Utter End
4 Thoughtseize

Planeswalkers (5)
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor

Lands (25)
1 Mountain
4 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Caves of Koilos
4 Nomad Outpost
3 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Triumph
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard (15)
2 Butcher of the Horde
1 Resolute Archangel
3 Nyx-Fleece Ram
2 Bile Blight
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Despise
2 End Hostilities[/deck]

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:32 am

I don't like any of those lists.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:33 am

Thanks for posting them though. It's always nice to get ideas even if the lists are suboptimal.

PrimalBurn · Postby **PrimalBurn** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:41 pm

Yeah a bunch of the open list while interesting looked really unfocused to me.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:50 pm

[deck]
Creatures (16)
4 flamewake phoenix
2 hushwing gryff
4 butcher of the horde
2 ashcloud phoenix
4 stormbreath dragon

Spells (19)
4 chained to the rocks
4 lightning strike
4 magma jet
4 crackling doom
1 sorin, solemn visitor
2 sarkhan, the dragonspeaker

Lands (25)
4 bloodstained mire
2 nomad outpost
4 temple of silence
2 temple of triumph
1 caves of koilos
4 battlefield forge
7 mountain
1 swamp

Sideboard (15)
1 erase
2 scouring sands
1 glare of heresy
4 read the bones
2 hushwing gryff
2 chandra, pyromaster
1 sorin, solemn visitor
1 elspeth, sun's champion
[/deck]

Thoughts? Sideboard is a work in progress. Just kinda slapped it together.

PrimalBurn · Postby **PrimalBurn** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:49 pm

I would be inclined to play two Chandra over the Sarkhan but otherwise I like a lot of what's going on

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:28 pm

I left out Chandra because of all the fliers. I thought Sorin would be more effective here and it's possible I want two.

My postboard plan is to transform into a control deck for game two, and I think it's a sound strategy. The numbers need tuning as I have yet to even consider what cards I'd be taking out and bringing in for each matchup.

Dies to Removal

Primer: Mardu Midrange

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