Greatest Idea Mafia *** Game Over ***

[Stardust]

Frankly, I think I'm the only one who really understands this game which is why you all think I'm acting off. imopen's death by gun is the same as his death by lynch, it just confirms someone in the process.

I also understand that Dechs is the only player who can actually win as scum if we mislynch today. Good thing he's town. I just realised this last night, and it will probably get me hung for saying it, but the logical choice from my perspective is to hang him. Luckily he's town so you don't have to take it on faith that I'm telling the truth. Just lynch me, then lynch rcw.

[WitchHunt]

Red was the lover, not imopen2. Regardless, point made.

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It still doesn't feel right. I think he's coming from the right mindset.

This isn't the first time I've seen this in regards to Raspy. Doing a quick reread of Dechs, a few things managed to catch my eye.

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He is or he isn't, copping him might not be a bad idea depending on how things turn out after this night.

So... I brought up the fact about a cop checking out Raspy fairly early on. (Post 404)

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He is or he isn't, copping him might not be a bad idea depending on how things turn out after this night.

I think copping him would be a waste of resources. We don't have a very strong reason to doubt his claim right now and he's read as complete town since the fastlynch. I think he's on the up and up. If we manage to lynch two scum and the game's still not over? Yeah, then we can talk about investigating him.

My point is, he's already on the radar. The devil you know and all that. Let's get some other folks out in the open first.

So, Jamie's the scum we hang today and RCW is the Saulus on the backburner for later. That leaves only two spots left to worry about.

Before we hang Jamie and end the Day, we need to get as much information as we can. My PM box was empty at the beginning of the Day.

RCW claimed he was silenced; that was me. I figured Jamie wasn't going to be leading any wagons so it wouldn't help to silence him. When you didn't hang I knew something was up and I did not trust you at the time, so I didn't want your vote influencing us today.

Does anyone have any night actions to report?

I breezed over this with imopen2, for that I apologize. I wanted someone to cop Raspy to confirm for us way earlier. So, I do have to ask, why is 100% confirming someone is town or not the right choice for that night? Neutered or not? Anyway, continuing...

We lynch Ham, imopen reveals he's the Town JoAT, and then this little gem jumps out at me.. Raspy asks why Az was copped.

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Not coming clean following his lynch is reason enough for me at this point.

Why feel the need to say this at all? It's pretty much the consensus that lynching me today is the only move. It also makes perfect sense why I wouldn't come clean between lynch and night but instead wait until the next day. I've already elaborated on it, but the tl;dr is I didn't want to give Mafia an easy kill and I didn't want to sway the discussion for wagon analysis purposes.

For when I flip town vanilla: imopen has always been on my radar but his role is helping him out. See what other scenarios exist. He's lurky as hell. I also don't trust Stardust's claim. Black Goo was all but confirmed via Ham but his alignment hasn't been.

Also, imopen, why did you cop Az last night instead of me? Wouldn't you want to get info on who we're all lining up to lynch?

vote: rcwraspy

And then Dechs follows up with this.

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From my phone so a quick comment.

RCW's last two questions are really good. RCW is the most viable lynch right now and that could have been confirmed.

So it was a waste of resources when we were for sure lynching Jaime, but now it's a good idea after we breeze over the Raspy lynch in favor of Ham?

He even uses this as fuel to try and get the imopen bandwagon going.

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i targeted az with the cop because i consider he and stardust to be the two strongest players in this game and i don't want to join a cult via black goo. i like to know some people i can trust,

That's not at all what you did, though. You didn't prove that you could trust Az at all because we were already knew there's not a Mafia killing people. If Az can't be trusted, it's not because he's Mafia. It's because he's a lyncher or a cultist or an Alien or whatever other possibilities are left here. You just wasted your cop ability.

rather than investigate someone we're probably going to lynch no matter what

No. We wouldn't even consider lynching him if you could have cleared him. RCW was 50/50 mafia and the only target your cop ability could have done anything for. Now we have to waste a lynch and possibly even a teammate on the "only logical lynch." You may not have set this up, but you could have done something to stop it. I think you're the one with anti-town motivations here.

Vote Imopen

He's been trying to get us off Raspy's case this whole time.

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The difference is that I've been interested in a Stardust lynch since day fucking one but no one else seemed on board. Ham told us he was cult; who hasn't? Letting Stardust live was a mistake and now he is showing severe disinterest or anti-town thoughts. "Let's hang a few townies." Stardust is officially on the table now.

Clear statement of intent: Today I will vote for either Imopen or Stardust. Imopen has been on my scumpossible list for a while, but not quite as long as Stardust. My vote is currently on Stardust, but I'll switch to hammer Imopen if you guys would rather lynch him today.

RCW is a known entity. I believe that he's the good guy. If I'm wrong and he is a town threat, he's at least one that cannot kill us.

Following the "Even if he's scum he's neutered" approach still.

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I'm not hanging RCW. It doesn't feel right and after Lego I'm trusting my gut when it tells me not to lynch someone.

He's at L-1, you can do it without me if you really want.

Still not going to lynch Raspy. Then here we are, full circle, in response to the insta RCW lynch.

It still doesn't feel right. I think he's coming from the right mindset.

Quickly followed by

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vote Stardust

I should be the last resort lynch, not the why not lynch. I'm a known quantity.

I can't really argue with this logic. If RCW is our last threat, he's not really a threat until there's three people left and we decide to lynch someone else.

He cannot win unless he's a vigilante and we don't lynch him when there's four of us.

Oh look, once again it's made relevant he's neutered, what could RCW possibly do at this point?

Yeah. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this. He's not Alien, because he definitely has a Silencer role. I'm willing to bet he's not a Werewolf either, otherwise I'm sure we would've seen at least ONE nightkill. He's not Cult, because Stardust has voted every day, so Dechs didn't use his ability on him. Early on in the game he was pretty hard after Raspy, after his initial lynch he didn't even try to get the guy lynched after that even though he's one of the most obvious choices. Could he be scum? Well he sure as hell came off a lot less towny to me. The only theory I really have in regards to it is that Dechs was the lone mafia player (Town Lover is fairly safe to false claim for alignment, three of us did it this game) who found out he had a scum buddy after the first night. Five left alive, we lynch Stardust because "Raspy isn't a threat", we're 2 and 2. The issue with that is obviously the severe lack of NKs this game. So is he a lyncher who's just been biding his time? Not sure, it's a headache which I'm going to try and leave it for toDay. I'm not lynching Stardust, and we're sure as hell not lynching Az, and if I have to try any harder to prove I'm town my eye's are going to fucking bleed. If I'm lynching anyone today, it's going to be Raspy. We lynch Raspy, even with a nightkill Dechs can't win if he does somehow turn out to have one. And in the other scenario I'm pretty much entirely against where Stardust does somehow turn out to be scum after all this time, same scenario holds true. We kill Raspy, myself, Dechs, and Az can still come out ahead tomorrow in votes.

Then finally say in the super off chance for me that Raspy actually is town, we're probably fucked, but I'm just not seeing that one being a thing. If it does I'll pray to fucking Google there isn't a NK floating around that could ruin the game.

I'll hold off voting to see if this sparks any discussion, I have to be at work in 6 hours so I'm going to crash.

[Dechs Kaison]

Yeah, those posts were Days apart. Early, it was a waste to cop RCW because the possibility that a Mafia existed was still there. A few Nights without NKs and the only thing the Cop ability was useful for was confirming/clearing RCW.

[Dechs Kaison]

Look, if I were Mafia trying to save RCW just because I'm looking for an extra buddy, I'd have just killed Az last Night. There'd be two of you and two of us and the we would have already won.

[Stardust]

Interesting that you post that right as I'm saying lynching Dechs is a good idea. I'll give it a better read tomorrow, but I'll just remind you, WitchHunt, that a scum Dechs does win the game today thanks to his silencer ability (4 alive, 3 to lynch with only 3 people able to vote).

I doubt lynching Dechs is the right play though. If he's not scum (he's not) then you guys actually have to make a choice. The only way I'll be onboard a Dechs lynch is if you guys resolve to lynch rcw next, handing the game to scumStardust. I doubt that's going to happen.

[Dechs Kaison]

Interesting that you post that right as I'm saying lynching Dechs is a good idea. I'll give it a better read tomorrow, but I'll just remind you, WitchHunt, that a scum Dechs does win the game today thanks to his silencer ability (4 alive, 3 to lynch with only 3 people able to vote).

I'd just like to point out that if I were scum, I should have at least one night kill. I would have been able to kill Az last night, silence RCW, and already be in a winning position.

And even if I didn't have the night kill, I would have just let you guys hang RCW at the start of the Day to accomplish the same thing.

[Dechs Kaison]

I just want to explain where I'm coming from when I say that it doesn't feel right to hang RCW.

I felt like this during the Lego Mafia game. Az was copped and we were told that he was scum. The same night, the cop was also copped and we were told that he was town. I tried to think of any way that those results could be anything but irrefutable. We knew there was only one scum left, so the two cops weren't in it together. The town came up with a plan. We were going to lynch Az and if he flipped town, we'd lynch the first cop. We figured it was more likely that he was a lying Godfather.

Aside from those cop results, I had every reason to believe that Az was Town. No, scratch that; I was sure of it. I was also sure that both cops were town. We couldn't think up any explanation for how that could be, though, so we lynched Az. Then the town cop. Logic failed us and we almost lost that game.

That's the feeling I have with RCW right now. I think he's being set up as the logical lynch. I don't like it.

I guess I have to face reality, though. There's no night kills; there might be no scum. Maybe RCW is just doing what he has to as a Judas without a team. It would be a moral victory if he was lynched by the last two remaining Town players, Az and Witch.

I'm confident enough with the mechanics that we don't lose if we mislynch today. So I'm going to leave my vote up to Az on this one. Stardust and RCW have one vote each. I'll go whichever way Az does. If we guess wrong, so be it, we correct the next Day.

[rcwraspy]

Everybody just answer this question for themselves (silently if you want, ITT if you don't care about "lining up lynches"):

If I'm lynched today and I flip town, what is your next move?

Because I'm flipping town. You might as well think it through now so you know whether or not you can even win the game if you lynch me.

[rcwraspy]

Stardust, I'm coming from the position of knowing that I'm town. So when you assert that you, Dechs, and Witch are all town, and we know Az has been mod-confirmed, that's why I just can't believe you.

[rcwraspy]

Is Innocent Child an alignment and a role all wrapped up in one? Or is it just a role? Because if it's just a role, he could have chosen it with any alignment.

[Dechs Kaison]

No, it's a role, and it's a blacklisted combination with any alignment other than Town.

[WitchHunt]

I had been working on that post for a couple hours of back and forth work on it, I was just to lazy to pedit it I really wanted to crash Star.
I was just saying I noticed a serious trend of rcw being buddied, I don't think my post was too aggressive, and if it was I apologize, I just was making note of what I saw. Even I'm kind of posting in a daze this morning, but there are so many reasons as to why Dechs could already have won it is difficult to view him as scum.

So if myself, you, and Az are town, it's Stardust or Raspy right Dechs? Feelings aside we all know he either is or isn't a mafia member now, whereas Stardust is the next logical pick after that in my opinion. Even if Raspy flips town and say there is a NK, we'll still come out ahead silencer ability or not. Thoughts Az?

[Azrael]

I feel like we're most likely dealing with a single scum who doesn't realize it's time to concede.

My behavior-meter says Dechs and RCW are sounding pretty townish at the moment. Stardust also sounds town, but has had a few WTF moments which make me cautious about trusting him (the hammer). Witchhunt doesn't sound town to me at all, but I'm having a tough time seeing how it's even possible for him to be scum, given our role analysis.

[Azrael]

I suppose, if Witchunt were scum together with Jamie and cooked this up as an awesome gambit, he could be counting on us falsely confirming him through this chain of events. He could have held his kill in reserve all this time to convince us that Jamie had no other allies, finally used his kill to knock off Imopen last night in order to support his paranoid gun owner claim, and is only going to break out his kill once again when he can guarantee an instant win. That's one possible way.

There's a few others, none of them particularly likely. Most likely, I'm just misreading people.

[Dechs Kaison]

I really don't want to entertain a scenario where WitchHunt and Jamie orchestrated a brilliant gambit like that. Mostly because it'll make me feel stupid.

[Dechs Kaison]

If they did orchestrate all that, they fucking deserve to win.

[Stardust]

I'd just like to point out that if I were scum, I should have at least one night kill. I would have been able to kill Az last night, silence RCW, and already be in a winning position.

Yeah that's true, the only way this makes sense is if you're Cult (or another threat that doesn't have a kill). I'm still not going to lynch you either way.

Can we just lynch someone, please? There is no way I'm voting for WitchHunt. Besides the fact that his meta has him as a bit timid (the only reason his latest posts feel a bit off), read how that counterclaim went down (particularly this post followed by this post). The only way I'm voting for Dechs is if you guys agree to lynch rcw tomorrow, but that's not going to happen either. Plus he's town, so, you know.

One of me or rcw is scum. I know it's not me, but I don't care at all if you lynch me first. You know my role, but not my alignment. You know his alignment, but not his role. We are equally dangerous and it makes no difference. This game should have ended Day 3. Can we end it now?

[Azrael]

Vote RCW

[Dechs Kaison]

Vote RCW

[Dechs Kaison]

So, what do we do when he flips town?

[Stardust]

Fuck if I know. Lynch WitchHunt, I guess, since you would have already won the game by that point. More likely you lynch me and somehow that makes you lose? I have no idea. But don't worry. It's been rcw all along.

[rcwraspy]

So, what do we do when he flips town?

This is exactly what will happen, so get your ducks in a row kiddies.

[rcwraspy]

Fuck if I know. Lynch WitchHunt, I guess, since you would have already won the game by that point. More likely you lynch me and somehow that makes you lose? I have no idea. But don't worry. It's been rcw all along.

Wrong.

I'd always support a Stardust lynch but all of a sudden I'm wondering if Dechs has been the under-our-nose scum all along. Too bad that by lynching me first you probably won't get the chance to know.

[rcwraspy]

Vote RCW

This was the hammer, right? Stardust, then Az, then Dechs?

[rezombad]

Votecount 5.1


rcwraspy (3): Stardust [741], Azrael [778], Dechs Kaison [779]

Stardust (1): rcwraspy [742]

Not Voting (1): WitchHunt [737]

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch

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That's a lynch!

It is now twilight

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[Stardust]

Fuck if I know. Lynch WitchHunt, I guess, since you would have already won the game by that point. More likely you lynch me and somehow that makes you lose? I have no idea. But don't worry. It's been rcw all along.

Wrong.

I'd always support a Stardust lynch but all of a sudden I'm wondering if Dechs has been the under-our-nose scum all along. Too bad that by lynching me first you probably won't get the chance to know.

Really? So... we lose? Like, I have no idea what to say. If Dechs wins come morning I'm going to destroy him.

He can't be scum! He can't be! The way he flipped my evidence for being town (that I'd discarded a mafia card) to include him, only to continue to doubt me... Like, you'd think he'd be happy to have someone rooting for solid evidence there. No. No way. If the game really isn't over right now, I'm voting for WitchHunt.

[Dechs Kaison]

Vote RCW

This was the hammer, right? Stardust, then Az, then Dechs?

Yeah, it's exactly what I promised a page ago. I was going to let Az decide and vote with him. If he's wrong, which you're insisting, then I want to lynch Stardust tomorrow. I don't think he can win toNight.

[rcwraspy]

Fuck if I know. Lynch WitchHunt, I guess, since you would have already won the game by that point. More likely you lynch me and somehow that makes you lose? I have no idea. But don't worry. It's been rcw all along.

Wrong.

I'd always support a Stardust lynch but all of a sudden I'm wondering if Dechs has been the under-our-nose scum all along. Too bad that by lynching me first you probably won't get the chance to know.

Really? So... we lose? Like, I have no idea what to say. If Dechs wins come morning I'm going to destroy him.

He can't be scum! He can't be! The way he flipped my evidence for being town (that I'd discarded a mafia card) to include him, only to continue to doubt me... Like, you'd think he'd be happy to have someone rooting for solid evidence there. No. No way. If the game really isn't over right now, I'm voting for WitchHunt.

I don't know if town loses now or not but it just got a LOT closer. And if Stardust and someone else are Cult the town just lost.

[Stardust]

Once again, if I was cult, I definitely, definitely would not have claimed in my first post.

[Dechs Kaison]

If the game really isn't over right now, I'm voting for WitchHunt.

Weren't you the one who couldn't even conceive a way for WitchHunt to be anything but Town? What changed?

If he's not Town, what is he? How?

[Stardust]

Werewolf. My behavioural town read on you is much much stronger that mine on WitchHunt. He can't not be town of the cc was legit, but if it was planned in advance, he's Werewolf. Both you and Witch are 100% town to me which is why I'm shocked that the game isn't over. Without rounding, he's at 99.8% and you're 99.99%, so that's my best guess.

I'm hoping rezmo is just trolling us with the delay, because I don't see any way that I'm not getting lynched of there is another day.

[Stardust]

There's also the fact that you being scum win the game tomorrow, so WitchHunt really is the only choice.

[rezombad]

rcwraspy has been lynched!

he was

---

Town Vanilla.

Vanilla Abilities:
During the Day, you may vote for whomever you want lynched.

Faction Abilities:
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one Town-aligned player is still alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

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It is now Night 5

Please do not post

Night will end in ~48 hours

Please PM me any night actions.

[Stardust]

I'm on vacation starting later today. I'll be on enough to finish the game, but don't expect much content.

[rezombad]

Azrael has been killed!

he was:

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town innocent child

Innocent Child Abilities:
During the Day, you may vote for whomever you want lynched.
Innocent Child: You can post "I am an Innocent Child" in bold in the thread at any time. I will then confirm that you are Town.

Faction Abilities:
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one Town-aligned player is still alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

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It is now Day 6

You may post.

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Not Voting (3): WitchHunt [795], Stardust [795], Dechs Kaison [795]

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch

[Dechs Kaison]

Welp. I've re-read this whole game four times now. This is just the way it has to be.

Vote WitchHunt

[WitchHunt]

Aaaand that's game. I knew the NK was there, well played scum. I've been silenced, so I can't do anything even if I wanted to.

[Stardust]

Uh...

Vote WitchHunt.

[Stardust]

I guess we win? I'm extremely surprised. Unless Dechs is scum. Then I'll still be surprised!

[rezombad]

WitcHunt has been lynched!

he was:

---

town 1-shot paranoid gun owner.

1-Shot Paranoid Gun Owner Abilities:
During the Day, you may vote for whomever you want lynched.
Paranoid Gun Owner: Every player that targets you will die.
1-Shot: This role will only activate the first Night you are targeted.

Faction Abilities:
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one Town-aligned player is still alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

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