[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[hamfactorial]

Subways have excellent drainage systems

[redthirst]

Where I'm at, we don't get four inches of rain per year.

Unless, of course, you count the servants pouring exotic scented oils all over your naked body.

[Jamie]

over here it rains dolla dolla bills

[Valdarith]

What up, gentlemen? Haven't been around much because my legal counsel has advised me to distance myself from DtR until Omar's case is settled.

[zemanjaski]

This seems a little bit cleaner after a day of testing.

[deck]UW Heroic[/deck]
Creatures
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Hero of Iroas
4 Heliod's Pilgrim
3 Seeker of the Way

Non-creature Spells
1 Aqueous Form
4 Defiant Strike
1 Dig Through Time
2 Feat of Resistance
4 God's Willing
2 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Ordeal of Thassa
1 Stratus Walk

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Mana Confluence
8 Plains
4 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Tranquil Cove
1 Windswept Heath

Sideboard
2 Ajani's Presence
1 Aqueous Form
1 Dig Through Time
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Erase
2 Ordeal of Heliod
1 Spectra Ward
3 Stubborn Denial
[/deck]

[rcwraspy]

This may be inconsequential but I don't really get the Windswept Heath over just a basic Plains. It seems negligent as fuel for the Digs and potentially detrimental to all the scry in the deck. I don't play UW Heroic, though, so ignore me.

[zemanjaski]

The deck is prone to flooding.

[zemanjaski]

Its super marginal of course.

[Kaitscralt]

Nothing is negligent to helping Dig/Cruise

[Kaitscralt]

It is the sole purpose to which all cards now aspire.

[zemanjaski]

True.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Anyone else seen this / is interested in this deck?

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12227

[Lightning_Dolt]

Took a lot of ideas from that list for the Mardu deck I was working on. Feedback?

[deck]
Creatures (7)
4 Dark Confidant
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos

Spells (30)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Helix
2 Terminate
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
2 Mardu Charm
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor





Lands (23)
2 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Fetid Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel

Sideboard (15)
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Anger of the Gods
4 Molten Rain
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Slaughter Games[/deck]

[zemanjaski]

You can't win if you miss your 3rd land drop so I would play 24 land.

[hamfactorial]

LD:

I was brewing a Dega midrange list last night, so I'm down to work on it with you. If you open a brew thread in developing, I'll post a few thousand test builds as usual.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'll try to get to it soon. I'm working a shit tonne of overtime right now and have family junk because of the holidays. I will do it the next time I have some spare time.

[Lightning_Dolt]

You can't win if you miss your 3rd land drop so I would play 24 land.

I was on 24 for a long time, but found I was flooding out. I agree that the deck can not win if it misses its third land. I guess cut a Helix for a Shrine?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Is Bob playable in modern right now, or should I just give up on that notion?

[Kaitscralt]

Unplayable because of Cruise

[Purp]

Zem, Jon Stern won a tourney playing 20 lands on UW heroic. Is cutting down to 21 land going to help with the flooding? Also, have you run into issues hitting double blue for dig? I was sitting on 3 plains and an island unable to cast it.

list for reference:

[deck]
Lands (20)
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Flooded Strand
3 Mana Confluence
7 Plains
2 Island
Creatures (18)
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Hero of Iroas
4 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Fabled Hero
Other Spells (22)
4 Gods Willing
4 Defiant Strike
1 Ajani’s Presence
1 Feat of Resistance
4 Aqueous Form
4 Ordeal of Thassa
2 Ordeal of Heliod
2 Stratus Walk
Sideboard (15)
2 Erase
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Triton Tactics
1 Ajani’s Presence
2 Suspension Field
2 Ordeal of Heliod
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Treasure Cruise
[/deck]

I'm sure you saw this on reddit but in case not.

[Purp]

SOmething amazing just happened.


https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=y ... mp=yhs-001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIElAME ... e=youtu.be

Hit play on that song, then switch tabs and hit play on the video

[zemanjaski]

Zem, Jon Stern won a tourney playing 20 lands on UW heroic. Is cutting down to 21 land going to help with the flooding? Also, have you run into issues hitting double blue for dig? I was sitting on 3 plains and an island unable to cast it.

list for reference:

[deck]
Lands (20)
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Flooded Strand
3 Mana Confluence
7 Plains
2 Island
Creatures (18)
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Hero of Iroas
4 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Fabled Hero
Other Spells (22)
4 Gods Willing
4 Defiant Strike
1 Ajani’s Presence
1 Feat of Resistance
4 Aqueous Form
4 Ordeal of Thassa
2 Ordeal of Heliod
2 Stratus Walk
Sideboard (15)
2 Erase
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Triton Tactics
1 Ajani’s Presence
2 Suspension Field
2 Ordeal of Heliod
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Treasure Cruise
[/deck]

I'm sure you saw this on reddit but in case not.

Yeah I've not tested with this sort if list so I don't know how it plays; it's obviously much more aggressive. There is a tebsiob in the mana base between fewer lands, which protects from flooding but makes sequencing more difficult and more land which will flood more (especially when it's 22 vs 20!) but also allows you to play your hand out more.

I guess the big difference is that my list had 4 Heliod's Pilgrim which lets you use your mana a lot more going long, and to recover against removal more easily.

At the same time, it's not necessarily the case that slogging through removal is better than going under it. I've not really played the archetype enough to draw definitive conclusions and the Worlds format can be a touch misleading. I'll have a lot more data by the end of the year and will be able to provide more valuable conclusions then.

[hamfactorial]

Is Bob playable in modern right now, or should I just give up on that notion?

It depends on the deck. It's very unreliable CA since Lightning Bolt is everywhere, but if you need a dude that sometimes draws cards in a low curve aggro deck he's still good.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Do you think he's better or worse than Nights Whisper in the proposed list?

[hamfactorial]

If you're looking for a source of CA, Night's Whisper or Phyrexian Arena may be better choices.

Confidant is easy to kill and has a giant target on his back, so you're basically using him as a card to soak up 1-for-1 removal. That's contrary to what a token deck wants.

Bitterblossom may be better for that spot, since it keeps making dudes after you sweep the board.

[hamfactorial]

I was playing this for lulz.

[Deck]Creatures:12
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells:23
3 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Bitterblossom
4 Lightning Helix
4 Volcanic Fallout

Lands:25
4 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
Sideboard:15[/deck]

[Kaitscralt]

Bob runs into Pyro tokens way too often, and the CA he provides doesn't pull you ahead enough when every deck has Cruise or Dig

[hamfactorial]

For whatever it's worth, LD, Crackling Doom is excellent in Modern vs. any non-Delver deck. It's particularly effective vs. Bogles since it doesn't target and gets around Leyline. Takes care of the problem creatures in Pod as well.

It deals two, so it's not even dead when you're trying to win-more.

[Jamie]

I'm looking for some CA, can you hook me up with a dealer?0

[GoblinWarchief]

I'm pretty sure 20 lands are too few in U/W heroic ; excluding the case of turn 1 oplite turn 2 ordeal, all your other creatures cost 2, so you always want to hit at least 3 land drops to cast ordeal + protection spell turn 3.

Besides, the deck is not totally prone to flooding, because 4 defiant strike cycle, there are tons of scry effects, obviously cruise or dig, and if things go well ordeal of thassa will draw 2. I tried playing with 21 lands, but i'm now playing 22 because i always felt tight on mana.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah the deck sucks when you're stuck on mana.

[LP, of the Fires]

You basically always want at least 3 lands, but no more then 5 with 4 being the sweet spot. I haven't tried the version with fabled hero, but that just seems so ambitious. Heliods pilgrim is the only 3-drop I need.

[Lightning_Dolt]

If you're looking for a source of CA, Night's Whisper or Phyrexian Arena may be better choices.

Confidant is easy to kill and has a giant target on his back, so you're basically using him as a card to soak up 1-for-1 removal. That's contrary to what a token deck wants.

Bitterblossom may be better for that spot, since it keeps making dudes after you sweep the board.

I figure Brimaz loses value if he's the only creature in the deck though.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I was playing this for lulz.

[Deck]Creatures:12
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells:23
3 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Bitterblossom
4 Lightning Helix
4 Volcanic Fallout

Lands:25
4 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
Sideboard:15[/deck]

I feel like Butcher isn't good enough. There are times I feel like he's not good enough in standard. Stormbreath could be interesting though. Is it really better than Thundermaw Hellkite or Demigod of Revenge though?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Bob runs into Pyro tokens way too often, and the CA he provides doesn't pull you ahead enough when every deck has Cruise or Dig

Fair.

[Lightning_Dolt]

For whatever it's worth, LD, Crackling Doom is excellent in Modern vs. any non-Delver deck. It's particularly effective vs. Bogles since it doesn't target and gets around Leyline. Takes care of the problem creatures in Pod as well.

It deals two, so it's not even dead when you're trying to win-more.

Isn't Liliana typically better though? I love +1 > Discount Souls.

[rcwraspy]

re: Bob, also remember that a lot of red is now packing Forked Bolt and a lot of black is now packing Darkblast, so he gets a lot of ancillary hate.

If your deck can support BB, I like Sign in Blood over [card]Night's Whisper[/card]. Night's Whisper is basically a Legacy/Vintage decision because of the existence of Misdirection in many blue decks and of course the single black is easier to cast. Sign in Blood in Modern won't suffer the same fate from Misdirection, though of course you have the casting cost. I just generally like Sign in Blood better because of the corner-case reach it can have.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Night's Whisper is easier to cast. You'll almost never choose them.

[Mcdonalds]

In what year are we casting nights whisper in legacy?

[rcwraspy]

Meant to say it was a hold over. All depends on how easy bb is anyway.