Greatest Idea Mafia *** Game Over ***

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rcwraspy
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Postby rcwraspy » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:56 pm

PPE: Uh huh. And why wouldn't you have said that before you died?
I thought about full claiming before death, but I realized it would give scum a confirmed townie to night kill.
Based on how you played that, I think you're far more likely to be a traitor. You were angry at being lynched - if you were a mafia agent who WANTED to play as townie instead, you'd be getting exactly what you wanted. So the anger doesn't really track. Hell, you might have been in the position of thinking about ASKING the town to lynch you, if you were already playing the game in a townie mindset. And a townie would have been looking to collaborate with the town, to spill his guts and share necessary information, instead of clamming up with the most important possible information you had to share before you "died".

It's like you were hoping we wouldn't be able to figure out what your non-death meant for your alignment.
You're thinking about it incorrectly. Day 1 I didn't know which win condition to play toward. My strategy was to play as if I was vanilla town. If we lynched scum I'd need to get myself lynched at some point for my town win condition. If we lynched town then I'd keep going with the mafia win condition. But since Saulus is equally in the dark as to other players' alignments, I thought it was best to scum hunt and play as a townie and see how the chips fell. Of course I was angry at being lynched - I was playing as a townie.
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Postby rcwraspy » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:57 pm

also of note - I got a PM saying I can't vote in day 2.
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Postby Azrael » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:05 pm

I may actually be inclined to believe you. It's a 50-50 shot based on the odds, which is worth bearing in mind, but I think your behavior is more pro-town than I was letting on in my previous post.

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Postby WitchHunt » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:24 am

He is or he isn't, copping him might not be a bad idea depending on how things turn out after this night.

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Postby WitchHunt » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:25 am

Or even during I suppose.

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Dechs Kaison
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Postby Dechs Kaison » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:02 pm

He is or he isn't, copping him might not be a bad idea depending on how things turn out after this night.
I think copping him would be a waste of resources. We don't have a very strong reason to doubt his claim right now and he's read as complete town since the fastlynch. I think he's on the up and up. If we manage to lynch two scum and the game's still not over? Yeah, then we can talk about investigating him.

My point is, he's already on the radar. The devil you know and all that. Let's get some other folks out in the open first.

So, Jamie's the scum we hang today and RCW is the Saulus on the backburner for later. That leaves only two spots left to worry about.

Before we hang Jamie and end the Day, we need to get as much information as we can. My PM box was empty at the beginning of the Day.

RCW claimed he was silenced; that was me. I figured Jamie wasn't going to be leading any wagons so it wouldn't help to silence him. When you didn't hang I knew something was up and I did not trust you at the time, so I didn't want your vote influencing us today.

Does anyone have any night actions to report?
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Postby Dechs Kaison » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:47 pm

I was a Saulus. My three cards:

Mafia Reflexive Doctor
Werewolf Ninja
Saulus
Rereading, I wanted to ask: Why did you not choose to be a Mafia Ninja? That's a great Mafia role because you could perform the factional kills without being seen by trackers/watchers.

I can't understand why you chose Saulus Ninja. Saulus has no actions with which to be Ninja.
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Postby rcwraspy » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:46 pm

I was a Saulus. My three cards:

Mafia Reflexive Doctor
Werewolf Ninja
Saulus
Rereading, I wanted to ask: Why did you not choose to be a Mafia Ninja? That's a great Mafia role because you could perform the factional kills without being seen by trackers/watchers.

I can't understand why you chose Saulus Ninja. Saulus has no actions with which to be Ninja.
Well, Mafia or Werewolf Ninja would certainly be the more powerful choices given those cards. But I thought Saulus was the most interesting, so I went with that. After Saulus was chosen I had to figure out which ability to take among Reflexive Doctor, Ninja, and Vanilla. Reflexive Doctor seemed counter-intuitive if I needed to keep going on a mafia win condition. While Ninja didn't have much use, I thought it was strictly better than Vanilla. If I could keep going as Saulus for a few days it may have come in handy.
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Postby rcwraspy » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:21 pm

RCW claimed he was silenced; that was me. I figured Jamie wasn't going to be leading any wagons so it wouldn't help to silence him. When you didn't hang I knew something was up and I did not trust you at the time, so I didn't want your vote influencing us today.
I can't blame you for that, but I'll restate my position. After Jamie, Imopen should be the #1 target. We should get more from Ham and Rednihilist too, since they've been lurky.
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Postby WitchHunt » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:55 pm

He is or he isn't, copping him might not be a bad idea depending on how things turn out after this night.
I think copping him would be a waste of resources. We don't have a very strong reason to doubt his claim right now and he's read as complete town since the fastlynch. I think he's on the up and up. If we manage to lynch two scum and the game's still not over? Yeah, then we can talk about investigating him.

My point is, he's already on the radar. The devil you know and all that. Let's get some other folks out in the open first.

So, Jamie's the scum we hang today and RCW is the Saulus on the backburner for later. That leaves only two spots left to worry about.

Before we hang Jamie and end the Day, we need to get as much information as we can. My PM box was empty at the beginning of the Day.

RCW claimed he was silenced; that was me. I figured Jamie wasn't going to be leading any wagons so it wouldn't help to silence him. When you didn't hang I knew something was up and I did not trust you at the time, so I didn't want your vote influencing us today.

Does anyone have any night actions to report?
Alright, fair enough. Nada here, my night went peacefully.

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Postby imopen2 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:12 am

i roleblocked jaime, possibly the reason their was no NK.
Kijin Zabuza: My pokemon cards bring the boys to the yard
Kijin Zabuza: And they're like, "Oh **** he has cards"
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Postby imopen2 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:14 am

I'd like to see defenses and full explanations from both. Jamie is right up there on my list, but the fact that I literally don't see any possibility for RCWraspy to not be mafia (either now or formerly) based on the game's setup is pretty compelling, and potentially outweighs even Jamie's problems.

PPE: Uh huh. And why wouldn't you have said that before you died?
I really dislike this post. Az is officially on my radar.
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Postby RedNihilist » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:58 am

Hi, I'm back.
I'll try to catch up.

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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:02 pm

Why are we claiming all our roles? Just because I did it doesn't mean ya'll have to too.

Anyway, I'm reading a lot of people as town. That was sort of expected by the setup of this game, I think. The game might just be over when we lynch Jamie, but I think I'd still like to lynch rcw next in line in case it's not. My conflicting read there is based on my previous read of him (if I was reading him as scum, then he must be town now if I was right) balanced by the fact that he didn't bother claiming following his lynch (the thought that he'd be "confirmed town" and therefore the target of the nightkill is dubious at best).

I guess third place would be Azrael or hamfactorial (the only two players I don't have a strongish town read on), but we can cross that bridge when we get to it. I'd like to give them a better read through before lynching rcw in any case.

Vote Jamie.
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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:10 pm

Why are you in such a rush to end the day?

Jamie's back at L-1. You're making it too easy to hang him before hearing from Ham and Red.
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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:57 pm

Meh, fine, if you insist.

Unvote.

hammy, what do you think of rcw?

Red, same question.
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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:57 pm

Stardust, when you have time please iso imopen2's posts and tell us what you think.
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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:11 pm

imopen? I think he's town. Let's find out why.

Picks up on something legit from ham before finishing his read. This is town motivated since it's a good idea for scum to understand the current game before taking stances on the past.

imopen believed my claim (sort of) and talked to Dechs about it in a fairly townie sort of way. I like this post from that exchange.
This is a great idea, dechs. I want to see these discarded power claims
I feel like this somewhat limits our ability to counterclaim the four we pinpointed, but mine was town hider
These two are weird, you're not wrong about that, but imopen has in the past shown a lot of interest in getting information out there. I seem to remember that causing the two of us to fight in a previous game, though I don't remember exactly when. I think the first post is misunderstanding what Dechs is asking for (imopen's talking about the power cards here), and the second is talking about Dechs' actual proposal, so the change in mindset doesn't bother me - imopen is talking about two different things. Before you say that sharing power cards is bad for the town (you would be right), I think imopen either misunderstood the plan or legitimately wanted to know everyone's abilities. This is bad overall, but like I said, townopen likes information more than he should and I don't think scum imopen would be so brazen to ask for town power roles so openly.

imopen, why did you think it would be a good idea for people to claim their power cards?

This response felt pretty townie.

Does some work on rcw and Jamie. No reason to doubt his reasoning in either case here.
Before night, so I know if you're scum or not, please.
Breadcrumbs roleblocker.

Angry at his lynch (in a townie sort of way).

Claims roleblocker (no reason to doubt it), and pushes a bit against Azrael for legit reasons.

So, yeah, imopen is very likely town.
҉

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Postby hamfactorial » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:53 pm

Good morning dudes!

I targeted Stardust last night because I didn't believe his claim. I was town but now I'm cult, so that's shitty.

I don't see any way to win now, so my motivation is gone. I'll keep playing like I'm town but you'll have to kill me after you find scum since I'm still technically a threat. I don't have any way to kill anyone though, so this is pretty useless.

:sherlock:

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Postby RedNihilist » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:56 pm

hammy, what do you think of rcw?

Red, same question.
Yesterday I felt like he wasn't town based on a couple of guts tell, like his lean on ham (like he did in a previous game, I don't remember which one) and his bad reactions to pressure.

Looks like he decided to go for one of the four 1-shot unlynchable powers (Town 1-shot Unlynchable, Alien 1-shot Unlynchable, Judas and Saulus if I'm not mistaken) and claimed the last one.
I don't believe the claim, though.
The very idea of choosing Ninja over Reflexive Doctor is questionable, it even does exactly NOTHING for Saulus.
I also don't get why he should have be that upset about being lynched as Saulus, I just think he went for that claim in order to "soft claim" town, but I don't feel like believing him.
I don't think his lynch should be a priority, though, as he's probably Vanilla by now (I'm not sure about Judas' ruling...), but the same stands for Jamie.

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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:57 pm

You don't have any recruit ability?
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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:00 pm

Good morning dudes!

I targeted Stardust last night because I didn't believe his claim. I was town but now I'm cult, so that's shitty.

I don't see any way to win now, so my motivation is gone. I'll keep playing like I'm town but you'll have to kill me after you find scum since I'm still technically a threat. I don't have any way to kill anyone though, so this is pretty useless.

:sherlock:
:rofl:

Well, at least that confirms me!

But yeah, didn't you gain a recruit ability?

imopen, since we're still lynching Jamie today, you should roleblock this.
҉

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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:09 pm

Careful Stardust, that confirms your role, but not your alignment.
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Postby hamfactorial » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:11 pm

Good morning dudes!

I targeted Stardust last night because I didn't believe his claim. I was town but now I'm cult, so that's shitty.

I don't see any way to win now, so my motivation is gone. I'll keep playing like I'm town but you'll have to kill me after you find scum since I'm still technically a threat. I don't have any way to kill anyone though, so this is pretty useless.

:sherlock:
:rofl:

Well, at least that confirms me!

But yeah, didn't you gain a recruit ability?

imopen, since we're still lynching Jamie today, you should roleblock this.
No, all I have is a new alignment and win condition. No way to recruit suckers to the club :stupid:

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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:15 pm

Good morning dudes!

I targeted Stardust last night because I didn't believe his claim. I was town but now I'm cult, so that's shitty.

I don't see any way to win now, so my motivation is gone. I'll keep playing like I'm town but you'll have to kill me after you find scum since I'm still technically a threat. I don't have any way to kill anyone though, so this is pretty useless.

:sherlock:
:rofl:

Well, at least that confirms me!

But yeah, didn't you gain a recruit ability?

imopen, since we're still lynching Jamie today, you should roleblock this.
No, all I have is a new alignment and win condition. No way to recruit suckers to the club :stupid:
Not buying it.

Roleblock him. Then hang him. Hopefully no one else targets Stardust.

I'm sorry, Ham, this is the way it's got to be.
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Postby hamfactorial » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:18 pm

:shrug:

K, see ya guys.

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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:18 pm

Careful Stardust, that confirms your role, but not your alignment.
bingo. And if the scum team includes Stardust and Hammy, it confirms exactly nothing.
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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:19 pm

Careful Stardust, that confirms your role, but not your alignment.
Yeah, yeah, but no more poor saps are going to target me at least.

I'll send rezmo a PM about the Cult recruitment thing. That's a setup question that he might be able to answer.
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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:24 pm

easiest way to confirm this is to just lynch Ham today. We can always lynch Jamie tomorrow. But switching the lynch to Ham could clear Stardust fairly well. There would still be scenarios where it's a ruse, but I'd feel more comfortable believing Stardust's claim if Ham flipped cult.
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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:25 pm

Help me out here, though. If Ham IS cult, and we focus on him today, does that set back town at all?
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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:27 pm

Help me out here, though. If Ham IS cult, and we focus on him today, does that set back town at all?
Well, roleblocking Jamie seems to have prevented the night kill, but if there's more than one scum, I doubt that ploy will work again. We're going to lose somebody if we let that go tonight.
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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:28 pm

Although, if there's more than one scum, we'll still get a night kill. I guess it doesn't hurt to change to Ham. The poor guy basically gave up, I'd hang him as a personal favor at this point.

Vote Ham
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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:33 pm

I've been in enough mafia QTs to know it's definitely a thing for scum to decide not to night kill in order to fake claim a roleblock. However, that would probably mean scum have day chat because imopen breadcrumbed his ability day 1. That means too many things have to align for it to be the case. So imopen is probably being truthful about blocking jamie.
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Postby Azrael » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:33 pm

We have no interest in lynching Ham at this point, I think. We want to elminate roles that can kill us in the night as first priority, I don't think we even have to lynch ham to win the game, correct? Wasted lynch to go after him.

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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:34 pm

Cult is a threat to town, recruitment or no. I'm betting he did have a recruit ability and claiming he doesn't is a last ditch effort to win.
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Postby hamfactorial » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:39 pm

Nah, I'm essentially dead weight unless there's someone who can purge me of my alignment. I can still help town, but I'm not going to put a lot of effort into it since even if you win I lose.

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Postby rcwraspy » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:50 pm

We have no interest in lynching Ham at this point, I think. We want to elminate roles that can kill us in the night as first priority, I don't think we even have to lynch ham to win the game, correct? Wasted lynch to go after him.
So do you think that Stardust's claim is fairly well confirmed at this point, then? Or simply that it doesn't matter?
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Postby Stardust » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:53 pm

Even if it's not confirmed, there's no rush in confirming me. It's not like the hamfactorial/Stardust scum team is going to take the game tonight. Lynching Jamie is the correct choice.
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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:56 pm

Even if it's not confirmed, there's no rush in confirming me. It's not like the hamfactorial/Stardust scum team is going to take the game tonight. Lynching Jamie is the correct choice.
This is exactly what a Cult Leader with Black Goo would say.
Fuck you and the green you ramped in on. - My EDH battle cry. If I had one.

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Dechs Kaison
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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:57 pm

Joking aside, I guess you're right. Either way, I think we do have all the information we're going to get out of today.

Imopen, roleblock Ham just in case he can recruit.

Vote Jamie
Fuck you and the green you ramped in on. - My EDH battle cry. If I had one.


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