Greatest Idea Mafia *** Game Over ***

[Dechs Kaison]

4. Witchhunt - Discarded: Town Conspiracy Theorist
5. Hamfactorial - Discarded: Town Vanilla
7. Jamie - Discarded: Town Vanilla
8. Rednihilist - Discarded: Town Conspiracy Theorist

Alright guys, pony up. What's the "other" Town card you discarded? We know it's not a role you chose and you all seem to have the "gives the scum less information" defense, but it's bullshit. I want each of you to tell me the town card you discarded, because you must have had another town card and if you're making it up, chances are we'll be able to spot you.

I'd tell you, but you said you're scum and I don't want to make it easy for you and your buddies.

Let it be noted that Ham had the opportunity to reply to this question first, but has instead opted to wait until everyone else answers and he can claim a card he knows is safe.

[hamfactorial]

It is duly noted!

[Dechs Kaison]

Well. I can target you. Any for other people feel like claiming that much and want to win the game now? If there are five of us, we just vote no lynch then become cult and win.

I don't like it, but I can't ignore it. It's a viable plan to victory, so it's worth considering.

I hope the mafia fucks you up.

Vote Dechs Kaison.

You know what? I'm happy just lynching you before anyone else claims anything. Nothing is going to come of this but the reveal of more role information, and knocking off someone who so far this game has contributed nothing but disbelief at my claim (even going so far as to start theorizing about me being a mafia paranoid gun owner??) sounds like a fair chance of hitting scum to me.

So, I see these two and in the first you acknowledge that I'm town, but then go on to say you're happy lynching me to kill a non-contributor. This is not the Stardust I'm used to working with (granted, that is only one game). You've always been far more helpful and more "Let's get the town block together and do something."

Your more recent posts are in line with what I've seen before and what I expect you to do. You're essentially coaching me while getting a better read on me. That's town mindset.

The question is, why the early break from that? You voted RCW right after he voted you, and you switched to me after I voted you. That's a lot of retaliation.

[Dechs Kaison]

Decent case, Stardust (though very early still), but why is your vote still on rednihilist?

RCW, why did you think Stardust was ever voting Red?

[Mcdonalds]

If there is a vig, I would say shoot dusty, his op is basically a huge piece of wifom, that I feel ultimately confuses the town more than anything

Those were my thoughts as well when I first read it. The only issue is we potentially lose two town members instead of one, because if Stardust flips town black goo, then we know damn well that vig is a cultist now.

o.

Yeah I considered that after posting, agreed

[RedNihilist]

My other Town card had Private Investigator as a power.
I don't really get how you're supposed to get any info for that, though.

[RedNihilist]

from*

[WitchHunt]

So based on that, is this a good idea? Would you like me shot?

Personally? No, I'd rather you not get shot by a vig. If you were going to get killed for whatever reason, I'd much rather it be through a lynch than through a targeted ability, less risk for town that way. That being said I'm not exactly on board the lynch wagon at this point, the only post that really irks me is your claim. Every time I come back to it it leaves me a bit unsure, which I am fairly certain that was your plan.

4. Witchhunt - Discarded: Town Conspiracy Theorist
5. Hamfactorial - Discarded: Town Vanilla
7. Jamie - Discarded: Town Vanilla
8. Rednihilist - Discarded: Town Conspiracy Theorist

Alright guys, pony up. What's the "other" Town card you discarded? We know it's not a role you chose and you all seem to have the "gives the scum less information" defense, but it's bullshit. I want each of you to tell me the town card you discarded, because you must have had another town card and if you're making it up, chances are we'll be able to spot you.

Were you dealt three town cards?

[Dechs Kaison]

My other Town card had Private Investigator as a power.
I don't really get how you're supposed to get any info for that, though.

Exactly. There's nothing it gives us, so there's no reason not to share it with the Town.

What you've just done is claimed a specific card. You either had that card, or you're making it up.

If you actually had that card, then we know you could be town and if you're not, you're a scum PI (I can't see why you'd have chosen that, though).

If you're making it up, then it's a risk you're taking because it could be counter claimed.

[Dechs Kaison]

Were you dealt three town cards?

Obviously not. You can see I discarded one Mafia card.

[Dechs Kaison]

Now answer my question.

[imopen2]

This is a great idea, dechs. I want to see these discarded power claims

[Dechs Kaison]

Scum has every reason to hide their discarded town card, because it tells us which role they chose.

[Dechs Kaison]

Hey, in fact, we all had to discard a Town card to be Town. So, how about we all come forward with the town cards we used to pick our alignments.

I had Town Lover.

[rcwraspy]

Decent case, Stardust (though very early still), but why is your vote still on rednihilist?

RCW, why did you think Stardust was ever voting Red?

I was going quickly, glanced at rez's vote count, and read it inversely.

[Mcdonalds]

Vanilla town was the other one

[imopen2]

I feel like this somewhat limits our ability to counterclaim the four we pinpointed, but mine was town hider

[Dechs Kaison]

I feel like this somewhat limits our ability to counterclaim the four we pinpointed, but mine was town hider

When you get down to it, they're just as likely to lie about a town card as the rest of us.

Every one of us that's town must have had a town card to get the alignment from. We have nothing to lose by revealing what that card was if we're town, because it's a role we didn't choose. Scum, however, will resist because that's the card they took their role from, and if we figure out that they're scum, we start to know what the scum team is capable of.

[WitchHunt]

Were you dealt three town cards?

Obviously not. You can see I discarded one Mafia card.

Then what are you going on about this discarding this "other" town card? I chose the town aspect of one card and the ability of the other card, same as anyone else. I discarded the card I did not use at all.

[Dechs Kaison]

Were you dealt three town cards?

Obviously not. You can see I discarded one Mafia card.

Then what are you going on about this discarding this "other" town card? I chose the town aspect of one card and the ability of the other card, same as anyone else. I discarded the card I did not use at all.

What was the Town card that you chose your alignment from.

Everyone else understands me.

[imopen2]

Witch, he used the term "discarded" but he didn't mean the whole card, he meant the ABILITY that was tied to the town card you used to pick your ALLIGNMENT

[hamfactorial]

Dechs:

I see what you're up to now. When I replied to your post last night, I assumed that there was duplication among the cards making it easy to fool the group by picking a common card.

I checked the wiki just now and saw that there's no carbon copies among the cards, so your request is a reasonable attempt to find scum through counter-claims.

Unvote Dechs Kaison

The card I used was Town 1-shot Kingmaker.

[rezombad]

Votecount 1.2

Hamfactorial (1) - rcwraspy [6]
Dechs Kaison (2) - Stardust [62], Jamie [72]

Not Voting (6): Lord_Mcdonalds, Dechs Kaison [56], Rednihilist [87], imopen2 [88], WitchHunt [96], Hamfactorial [142]

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

-----
Jamie has been prodded.

[rcwraspy]

considering that was an RVS vote that I just didn't bother to take off,

unvote

[WitchHunt]

I get what you mean now, my bad. I passed up being a town lover, dying with all the other lovers didn't seem like it would be any fun.

[WitchHunt]

Or rather, it seemed like that was more like a negative than a positive to me.

[Dechs Kaison]

Agreed. Near as I can tell, Lover is a completely negative role.

[Mcdonalds]

Rezombad possibly could've given two lovers a quick chat but that's doubtful

Anyways, what are we getting at with the card claiming/speculation, want to start working to something today

[Dechs Kaison]

Well, we need more of them out there, for one.

I'm wary of anyone who's reluctant to claim it for whatever reason. These guys that have already thrown their cards out there are taking a risk if they're making it up. Someone who waits to hear over half the players' cards isn't risking much to make up a card set they've been dealt.

[Dechs Kaison]

Oooh! We can all relax a little bit because we know one thing: The anti-town team is not a four person single faction. If they were, they could have already won. All it would have taken was a single vote on a townie and those four could pile on.

So, we're looking for, at worst, a three person team and a loner or two teams of two.

[imopen2]

Oooh! We can all relax a little bit because we know one thing: The anti-town team is not a four person single faction. If they were, they could have already won. All it would have taken was a single vote on a townie and those four could pile on.

So, we're looking for, at worst, a three person team and a loner or two teams of two.

hmm, idk if this is 100% true, but i like your mindset. a number of roles could keep a 4-person team from winning as you described. it also discounts night abilities etc. i am nearly positive your theory is correct, though. the probability of a 4-person team is so low idk if it's even worth considering right now.

[Stardust]

There are lots of Night abilities that could screw that plan up too. A four person team doesn't have to work very hard to win this game, so I don't see them risking trying to pull a play like that.

Either way, a 4-person team is unlikely as it is. Please stop focusing on trying to get concrete information from setup speculation. Ultimately, whatever you find will be next to useless and if you're town your efforts would be better spent looking at actions and reactions. For example, what do you think of hammy's change of heart regarding giving up his card? What do you make of the way people claimed their lover cards?

Was sick yesterday. I'll get a better post up later today.

[Stardust]

Dechs, I still want you to ask a unique question to everyone. At least tell me who you think is scum if that's too much work for you.

Honestly, it could end up just like the WePick. That was a nine player game, right? Well, there were two scum, one survivor and one serial killer. Technically, the survivor could go either way, but I'd still call it a town threat.

Survivors don't count as threats. And the mafia had no nightkill, making it a fairly easy game for town overall. Why are you continually reminding people of how dangerous this game might be?

So, I see these two and in the first you acknowledge that I'm town, but then go on to say you're happy lynching me to kill a non-contributor. This is not the Stardust I'm used to working with (granted, that is only one game). You've always been far more helpful and more "Let's get the town block together and do something."

I'm not lynching you to kill a non-contributor. I'm lynching you to kill scum, your non-contribution (and what you've chosen to contribute to) being my primary reason for thinking you're scum. Maybe you don't feel like I'm leading the town because I'm leading them against you?

The question is, why the early break from that? You voted RCW right after he voted you, and you switched to me after I voted you. That's a lot of retaliation.

rcw never voted for me, actually. I voted him because his questions were targeting all the wrong things. I had just claimed. He talks about nothing but my RVS vote that wasn't even a vote. It felt like he wanted to smear me with something without taking a proper stance. Maybe I'll take a closer look at this again now that the game has developed a bit further.

And you weren't voting for me when I voted you either. In fact, I voted you in large part because you unvoted. You can read all about it here.

Every time I come back to it it leaves me a bit unsure, which I am fairly certain that was your plan.

Not my plan at all. That was going to be my plan when I originally was going to be Werewolf Black Goo, but I am town and therefore would like nothing better than for you all to just believe me so we can hunt some scum. I do agree that lynching me is the better plan if it ever comes to it.

What do you think overall, WitchHunt? Who is scum?

I had Town Lover.

Give that there are multiple Town Lover cards (I'm sure you're aware of that), did you feel confident claiming this card?

Every one of us that's town must have had a town card to get the alignment from. We have nothing to lose by revealing what that card was if we're town, because it's a role we didn't choose. Scum, however, will resist because that's the card they took their role from, and if we figure out that they're scum, we start to know what the scum team is capable of.

What it actually does is give the scum a better idea of what's safe for them to claim. You're right that they have to take a chance when claiming their alignment card now (or choose a Lover or Vanilla card to claim), but imopen is right that it makes counterclaims harder later. I think overall this card claiming thing will be a disadvantage if anything. No matter how many cards we claim, we will never know what the scum team is capable of. All we know is a handful of powers they don't have, but them knowing that is actually more useful since they can pick from the rest of the list now when choosing what ability to claim later (which still might hit one of our other cards, but the chance of that happening has been cut in half).



... WitchHunt is probably town.

Anyways, what are we getting at with the card claiming/speculation, want to start working to something today

What did you have in mind? I know you generally post less than most, but you're welcome to lead a fact finding mission anytime you want.

[Stardust]

rcwraspy

Questions me on RVS immediately following my claim. As I said before, "I voted him because his questions were targeting all the wrong things. I had just claimed. He talks about nothing but my RVS vote that wasn't even a vote. It felt like he wanted to smear me with something without taking a proper stance."

Ah, right, he follows my vote with good questions now. Carries on for a couple posts trying to catch me in a lie which I think is town motivated behaviour, though it could go either way.

Answers a question of mine directed at LMD. It's odd that he feels the need to defend himself from a question that wasn't even targeting him - I got the impression that LMD was talking about me exclusively, so why is rcw nervous about how he came off?

Calls my case on Dechs "decent", but doesn't go anywhere with it.

Defends hamfactorial.

Asks some frankly awkward questions of Dechs, but never returns to it.

And... that's about it.


rcw, I want you to post a town/scum list with reasoning for each player.

[Mcdonalds]

Anyways, what are we getting at with the card claiming/speculation, want to start working to something today

What did you have in mind? I know you generally post less than most, but you're welcome to lead a fact finding mission anytime you want.

Hillariously enough, I'm horrible at ideas

I'd like to start actually getting something going as far as a wagon/etc, right now we're kinda spinning our wheels discussing the setup, and not working to our goal of catching scum, right now, your opening post of claiming to be a town black goo is a huge piece of WIFOM and the only one I've seen post regarding that IIRC is dechs and witch (it's been a hot minute since I've looked through the thread), admittedly I haven't seen anything else we could look at, but discussion and analysis would certainly yield something.

[Jamie]

The card i took alignment from was cop/lover

Since people started revealing their alignment card its best for everyone to follow suit, since whatever advantage there is gets you killed.

[rcwraspy]

rcwraspy

Questions me on RVS immediately following my claim. As I said before, "I voted him because his questions were targeting all the wrong things. I had just claimed. He talks about nothing but my RVS vote that wasn't even a vote. It felt like he wanted to smear me with something without taking a proper stance."

Ah, right, he follows my vote with good questions now. Carries on for a couple posts trying to catch me in a lie which I think is town motivated behaviour, though it could go either way.

Answers a question of mine directed at LMD. It's odd that he feels the need to defend himself from a question that wasn't even targeting him - I got the impression that LMD was talking about me exclusively, so why is rcw nervous about how he came off?

Calls my case on Dechs "decent", but doesn't go anywhere with it.

Defends hamfactorial.

Asks some frankly awkward questions of Dechs, but never returns to it.

And... that's about it.


rcw, I want you to post a town/scum list with reasoning for each player.

Should have time for a proper response on Friday.

[hamfactorial]

There are lots of Night abilities that could screw that plan up too. A four person team doesn't have to work very hard to win this game, so I don't see them risking trying to pull a play like that.

Either way, a 4-person team is unlikely as it is. Please stop focusing on trying to get concrete information from setup speculation. Ultimately, whatever you find will be next to useless and if you're town your efforts would be better spent looking at actions and reactions. For example, what do you think of hammy's change of heart regarding giving up his card? What do you make of the way people claimed their lover cards?

Was sick yesterday. I'll get a better post up later today.

I can explain in greater detail why I chose to comply with Dechs' request, but I'll wait until he has the chance to give his thoughts on it.

I hate when I ask a question and someone else answers for him or her.

[Dechs Kaison]

Dechs, I still want you to ask a unique question to everyone. At least tell me who you think is scum if that's too much work for you.

Alright, I'm tired of this shit. I'm not going to let you bully me around anymore. You wanted me to ask questions, I started asking questions. Then I started pushing for claims. We got a few early claims on those and they're people we can reasonably clear. I'm playing this game the best way I know how. If it doesn't work out, I'm going to learn from it and try again. If that's not good enough for you, then piss off. I've got a game to play.

Yes I'm confident in my claimed card. It's the fucking card I was dealt. Witchunt claimed Lover, too, but you think he's town. There was a Town Vanilla claimed that you're not going after. No. Of course not. It's just "Go after Dechs Day" in Stardust land. You're tunneling on me as bad as my wife does, and I'll tell you the same thing I tell her: You look hard enough at anyone, you'll find things you don't like. I bet the scum team is loving the job you're doing on me, just like in the WePick. Hell, tunneling almost got me lynched in Lego mafia, too.

Look at the card I discarded. It's a Roleblocker. If I was scum, that'd be the ideal fucking role to pick. But no, I let that go. Pretty stupid play for scum. I'd love to play a scum role, but you have to have more faith in me than that. That's the only mafia card dealt to me and I didn't get a werewolf. I've got no team, no quicktopic. I've only got the Town. I'm doing my best to find the scum here.

So, one more time. You don't like how I'm playing? Piss the hell off. I'm done talking to you.

[Mcdonalds]

You're not going to be able to kick around ol Nixon anymore