[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[TBuzzsaw]

One of the guys at my store is actually a magician that has been doing crazy card tricks for years, including one where he somehow put a card in my hand without me knowing it. Everyone jokes how he could cheat so easily in Magic and no one would know.

[LP, of the Fires]

I have a friend who's the same way, though he was a very mediocre magic player.

[TBuzzsaw]

My friend's one of the best players in the store, but I jokingly say he wins by sabotaging our top deck draws and fixes his whenever we blink.

[hamfactorial]

I cheated once playing Magic. I was in the early rounds of a tourney and I got paired up against the little kid playing white weenie humans. The round was almost over and I was cruising to an easy victory on a T1 Stromkirk Noble.

He was obviously frustrated and couldn't deal with it, and his only removal was a bunch of combat tricks.

I felt bad for him, and he was visibly upset, so I was playing draw-attack-go instead of piling on more damage.

He was dead next turn but when he passed, I noticed that I had 8 cards in hand because I'd been sandbagging for several turns. Instead of calling a judge, I just went straight to attack and showed him a burn spell. He conceded, but I still felt dirty about it.

[LP, of the Fires]

I cheated at lunchtime magic in high school cause I was immature, but we all where, so I twas mostly just a subgame of who could cheat the best(and we didn't know all the rules so it didn't matter). Now I actively learn everything that is and isn't cheating so that I can spot it and to know what I have to remind my opponents about(scry for instance is mandatory as is triggering all parts of an ordeal when it gets sacked among other things).

[Jedi_Knight]

Just finished watching PT Coverage because I can't be bothered to watch it starting at 2 AM since it's the other half of the planet.

few things: sure, great decks, but the TOP8 was just fucking boring. Jeskai got raped, Combo couldn't combo and watching endless midrange battles bore me to death. Siege Rhino into Siege Rhino into Siege Rhino into Siege Rhino insto Siege Rhino insto Siege Rhino made me throw up a little inside. And even though I was pretty amazed at what the Jeskai deck is able to do, I sure as hell don't want to get raped by angry rhinoceroses.

Got the Mardu cards in paper, just need to get them online. There were quite a lot of interesting decks in the coverage (Ikawa's, Nelson's, Anderson's scissors, Levy's Mardu PWs etc.) so the format SHOULD be diverse... because frankly endlessly battling one deck (monoB) made me quit magic for half a year.

As for Lax's behavior this is the first time I've seen the guy and I play the same way - chatty, excited etc. so it comes natural to me someone else does this. I am frankly always kinda curious why everyone is so... let's just say grumpy.

And I just hate LSV. Don't know what everyone sees in him other than being a great player but apparently he has to play bad everytime on PT so we can get him to make bad jokes.

On the other hand, he is better than the rest of the WotC team which doesn't say a lot since WotC coverage is FUCKING TERRIBLE. Soundwise, commentary wise and camera switching wise, just terrible.

OK, I spew it all out, now I can go to bed.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Tell us how you really feel

[Jedi_Knight]

Yeah, fighting games have always had good communities. Of every gaming community I've been involved in, mtg has by far the most toxic player base unfortunately.

Also, this. Fucking this. I admit I may have spewed hate on LSV but that is because I just don't find him funny.

But goddamn going to a MTG paper tournament can be a godwaful experience. Which is one of the reasons I chose to play mainly on MTGO instead. Which sadly, has the same douchebags, but they don't use chat...

[TBuzzsaw]

So all this talk about cheating in Magic everywhere I go today has got me thinking and I need you guys to weigh your opinions on it.

So there's this guy, let's call him Mike. He's won SCG State (I won't say which one and when) that I attended. In the top 8, all three of his rounds were won in result of his opponents either having to mull down to 4 or 5 on the play because of no land hands, or getting severely mana screwed in the match itself. None of the matches were actual games. I figured he was just really lucky until I talked to some of the guys I know that played him early in the day and they told me the same thing happened to them. I still chalked it up to being the luckiest guy all day.

Fast forward several weeks later, where now he's showing up to my store's FNM once every few weeks. He's constantly switching decks, but always make top 8. He did win state so he's a pretty skilled player right? I would say so, but again, every match I watch him the opponent mulls or gets mana screwed/flooded. I've played him twice and of the four games I've played, only one of them was a real match with no mana problems. One of them involved me playing UW Control and getting stuck on two (scry) lands, even after playing two Azorius Charms and a Quickening from my opening hand. Everyone seems to feel like something's off playing him.

Now I know it's impossible to fix your opponent's deck in such a way, but is his luck really that good, or is there something fishy going on?

[Jamie]

Yeah, fighting games have always had good communities. Of every gaming community I've been involved in, mtg has by far the most toxic player base unfortunately.

Also, this. Fucking this. I admit I may have spewed hate on LSV but that is because I just don't find him funny.

But goddamn going to a MTG paper tournament can be a godwaful experience. Which is one of the reasons I chose to play mainly on MTGO instead. Which sadly, has the same douchebags, but they don't use chat...

Hold on what? I have only gone to a few real-life events but I've seen only one genuine douchebag which is really low. The worst thing anyone's done to me personally is enforced the rules a bit aggressively. What exactly do people do that makes irl mtg bad?

[Dechs Kaison]

Speaking of sleight of hand:

Do you guys know the difference between a con man and a magician?

A magician tells you what he's doing is a lie or illusion. A con man wants you to believe it to be real or truthful.

It's a trick question. There is no difference.

[Kaitscralt]

Speaking of sleight of hand:

Do you guys know the difference between a con man and a magician?

A magician tells you what he's doing is a lie or illusion. A con man wants you to believe it to be real or truthful.

It's a trick question. There is no difference.

gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

[Kaitscralt]

I love LSV and whoever said they were hating on him has a really bad sense of humor

his jokes are supposed to be terrible, that's why the stream chats grade them

[BlakLanner]

TBuzzsaw, I would start keeping an eye on him. Pattern recognition says something is up. It also reminds me of a player we had a while ago who had similar luck and results. Several players put their heads together, figured out what was happening, the caught him in the act the next week.

[rcwraspy]

Did they cut off one of his hands?

[Jedi_Knight]

I love LSV and whoever said they were hating on him has a really bad sense of humor

his jokes are supposed to be terrible, that's why the stream chats grade them

Who the fuck reads stream chat? Also terrible jokes = terrible jokes. There is nothing more to that. But to each his own.

[Jedi_Knight]

Yeah, fighting games have always had good communities. Of every gaming community I've been involved in, mtg has by far the most toxic player base unfortunately.

Also, this. Fucking this. I admit I may have spewed hate on LSV but that is because I just don't find him funny.

But goddamn going to a MTG paper tournament can be a godwaful experience. Which is one of the reasons I chose to play mainly on MTGO instead. Which sadly, has the same douchebags, but they don't use chat...

Hold on what? I have only gone to a few real-life events but I've seen only one genuine douchebag which is really low. The worst thing anyone's done to me personally is enforced the rules a bit aggressively. What exactly do people do that makes irl mtg bad?

It's not the games, it§s the other stuff. You can almost feel the hate through the air. One thing just for starters: the community at least here looks down and frowns upon new players.

Which would be OK if I was accepting a new tank for our raid and demanded a certain level of gear and experience but not ok if I met a new player who just went to his first dungeon. Imagine WoW Dungeon Finder attitude just ten times worse.

And for MTG that is just the worse kind of attitude because nothing really beats a nice 8man FNM draft with people you enjoy drafting. But especially in large events people take their loses as graciously as an elephant walking through a line of german porcelain dwarves.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I played against an opponent who complained about everything despite 6 perfect rips in a row so I couldn't kill him on 1 life and me being without a colour of mana with 5 cards I couldn't cast in hand. The guy always complains and grumbles and is just miserable to play against. After that I dropped and went home. On the drive home I thought to myself, "Christ, I hope I'm not like that, but I think I am."

New mission is to try to no complain abput anything and have more fun / be a better opponent.

Also, Canada is under attack. Fuuuuuck....

[Kaitscralt]

I love LSV and whoever said they were hating on him has a really bad sense of humor

his jokes are supposed to be terrible, that's why the stream chats grade them

Who the fuck reads stream chat? Also terrible jokes = terrible jokes. There is nothing more to that. But to each his own.

Thousands of people read stream chat

Terrible jokes don't equal Terribke jokes. There is more to that

[windstrider]

My thoughts?

It's. A. Game. I play to have fun. If I'm not having fun, then why am I playing? I play at the FNM level because I recognize that I'm not good enough to play at a more competitive level, and I just don't have the time to devote to playing at a higher level. I'm happy if I win more games than I lose that night. I'm happy if I get to meet and talk with some interesting new people. I'm happy if I can use my sub-optimal deck to beat a top-tier deck, and we both have fun with the game.

I dislike the players who treat FNM like it's top 8 at the Pro Tour. I get that people want to play competitively, but please drop the condescending attitude.

[Kaitscralt]

you're dead to us

[hamfactorial]

The only magic commentator I dislike is Zac Hill because of the nasally voice.

[Pedros]

I need a deck for GP Madrit and GP Milan that are going to be in modern format.

My Green Devotion cant be played, as Jeskai Ascendancy, UR Delver and RCruise Burn destroys my best matchups (Midrange Green decks, such as Jund, Junk, Pod etc.). While burn isnt bad, I dont think I can delve (punt intended) into such a field.

From my observations looks like Delver is somewhat soft to Lingering Souls, while Ascendancy should be usually cold to abrupt decay, thoughtseize and inquisition. Are my thoughts correct?

I also noticed most decks are starting to splash blue for treasure cruise... Willy Edel posted Junk featuring Cruise. Should I look into White/Black/blue/x?

[windstrider]

you're dead to us

I figured as much.

[Dechs Kaison]

We're all dead. We just haven't figured that out yet.

[zemanjaski]

The only magic commentator I dislike is Zac Hill because of the nasally voice.

I'm not big on Cedric Phillips but mostly because every time he talks I know he's talking directly out of his ass.

I don't mind Zac Hill as long as he sticks to explaining why "we had to make this card a 2/2 instead of a 2/3 for power level reasons." He has some R&D insight which I enjoy, even if I don't care for his voice.

This might be the first thing we've agreed on this year.

[Purp]

Cedric is just a fat guy who wishes he was an athlete instead of fat guy.

[Jack]

I need a deck for GP Madrit and GP Milan that are going to be in modern format.

My Green Devotion cant be played, as Jeskai Ascendancy, UR Delver and RCruise Burn destroys my best matchups (Midrange Green decks, such as Jund, Junk, Pod etc.). While burn isnt bad, I dont think I can delve (punt intended) into such a field.

From my observations looks like Delver is somewhat soft to Lingering Souls, while Ascendancy should be usually cold to abrupt decay, thoughtseize and inquisition. Are my thoughts correct?

I also noticed most decks are starting to splash blue for treasure cruise... Willy Edel posted Junk featuring Cruise. Should I look into White/Black/blue/x?

If you can play UR Delver, do that.

[Jack]

Or learn ascendancy combo. They're the two best decks now, and there's a reason why the decks designed to combat the meta almost always end up placing lower than the actual meta decks.

[zemanjaski]

I need a deck for GP Madrit and GP Milan that are going to be in modern format.

My Green Devotion cant be played, as Jeskai Ascendancy, UR Delver and RCruise Burn destroys my best matchups (Midrange Green decks, such as Jund, Junk, Pod etc.). While burn isnt bad, I dont think I can delve (punt intended) into such a field.

From my observations looks like Delver is somewhat soft to Lingering Souls, while Ascendancy should be usually cold to abrupt decay, thoughtseize and inquisition. Are my thoughts correct?

I also noticed most decks are starting to splash blue for treasure cruise... Willy Edel posted Junk featuring Cruise. Should I look into White/Black/blue/x?

Ascendancy crushes Jund; Delver beats all the decks with Lingering Souls in it (though Souls itself is obviously good).

[Khaospawn]

The only magic commentator I dislike is Zac Hill because of the nasally voice.

I'm not big on Cedric Phillips but mostly because every time he talks I know he's talking directly out of his ass.

I don't mind Zac Hill as long as he sticks to explaining why "we had to make this card a 2/2 instead of a 2/3 for power level reasons." He has some R&D insight which I enjoy, even if I don't care for his voice.

This might be the first thing we've agreed on this year.

I've made my peace with Ceddy P, but goddamn, I can't stand Zac Hill. It's not just his voice; it's almost like he just talks to hear himself speak and in doing so, he makes you want to just tune him out after a few seconds. It's not like he says anything good either - everything he says is pretty much basic.

[Khaospawn]

Cedric is just a fat guy who wishes he was an athlete instead of fat guy.

He's a better commentator than a player.

[hamfactorial]

He's not a player he just crush a lot.

[Khaospawn]

To his credit, he's a lot more talented at commentary than the majority of the WotC coverage staff. I also like his chemistry with PSully. Their banter and ribs at each other are a lot more "real" than listening to Marshall Sutcliffe and Zac Hill. And where Cedric may show at times that he's a lesser Magic player, there's always PSully to keep him in check, so to speak. That kind of vibe is hard to find anywhere.

[Khaospawn]

I've been trying to stay out of the whole "cheater on SCG" thing on all social media and IRL, but I do have a question that you guys may be able to answer for me. If you feel that your deck wasn't sufficiently randomized or that you suspect a mechanic's grip was on your deck, can you ask a judge to make your opponent triple cut your deck? AFAIK, the "cut-within-a-cut" method is one of the most surefire ways to disrupt any manipulation since it more or less presents the middle of the deck to the top, thus disabling any top or bottom funny business.

[hamfactorial]

Does anyone know how many times you can pass a deck back and forth to shuffle? If I ever saw someone doing fishy stuff to my deck, I'd riffle shuffle it and pass it back until he got tired of stacking it.

[hamfactorial]

I played a guy who mana-weaved every game, then got super salty when I shuffled his deck every time he asked for a cut.

[Khaospawn]

I always shuffle my opponent's deck and then finish with a triple cut. It's been a habit at this point since whenever I first graduated to real competitive play. A close friend of mine is an L3 and he told me years ago that if I ever played in a Comp REL, it's mandatory to shuffle your opponents' decks. So ever since then, I made it a habit. In fact, I have a hard time during playtesting to resist shuffling and cutting my friends' decks during 'nothing' matches.

[BlakLanner]

Does anyone know how many times you can pass a deck back and forth to shuffle? If I ever saw someone doing fishy stuff to my deck, I'd riffle shuffle it and pass it back until he got tired of stacking it.

Technically you can't really pass it back and forth. You randomize your deck and present it to your opponent, who cuts or shuffles. After that, you aren't allowed to do it again. You are allowed to request that a Judge shuffle your deck rather than your opponent.

[LP, of the Fires]

To be fair, when Cedric Philips was good, he was better then most everyone on this site. How many people here have played on the Pro Tour? Top 8'd GPs?

And at Comp REL, you should always shuffle your opponents deck instead of just cutting.