LEGO Movie Mafia - Game Over - Town Win

[Col. Khaddafi]

the fact that I can't vig shot today is a problem though

[RedNihilist]

I won't have my device ready before tomorrow either.

Is everyone working on a plan?

[Dechs Kaison]

Unvote

I just realized there's another possibility that we're not really considering. Red, you hinted at this earlier, but I'm beginning to think it's more and more likely. Scum team knew Imopen was building a lie detector and that it'd be ready last Night. What if they built a sabotage device that flipped the result of the lie detector? Then, whoever he targeted would give false results. Town would be scum and scum would be town. It's brilliant, really. If scum team can be master builders, then there's no reason they wouldn't do something like that. It sets up Imopen for the fall too when the "scum" flips town. We'd get two mislynches in a row and the scum team, even if it's only one dude, would win. Hell, it might not even be a scum master builder. The role might be scum saboteur. This could also explain CK/MoJo's failed kill.

I'm still really sure that Az can't be scum. He's done a lot of things that just ring super town to me. Multiple deadline extension requests. He also submitted a plan for the chronoboost (I know this because I submitted the same plan and got the same time requirement he did). He's also used a phrase that Stardust also used in a PM to me about building similar devices. I know Az is a master builder and if he were scum he wouldn't have submitted a plan for chronoboosting. That's useful to town only.

I'm going to trust Red's lie detector as well, which means Imopen is town. I don't think the scum team could have flipped two lie detector results in one night, especially if they didn't know Red was building one.

I think I need to reread things.

[Dechs Kaison]

So, somebody has to be the saboteur. Wasn't me, or I wouldn't be pointing it out as a possibility. Yeah yeah, WIFOM. Shut up and move on.

9 people with 3 scum just doesn't make sense. We should be playing like there's only one more scum player left.

It can't be Imopen. He's not lying about his result because if he was, there would have to be a second scum player for the gambit to pay off.

Can't be Az. If he sabotaged Imopen's result, it would have given a town result. Also, see above for my reasoning on why he's as town as it comes.

Can't be Red. He claimed the lie detector on Imopen read him as town. If Red was scum, he wouldn't want anything to give us reason not to hang Imopen once we find out Az flips town.

Who's left?

CK and LMD. Let's isolate their posts and see if anything doesn't jive.

[Dechs Kaison]

So, LMD was easy. There's not much there. There's no real reason to suspect him. Not much to clear him on, either. He did hammer GR.

Process of elimination says vote CK, but I still want to look closer at his ISO. MoJo's, too.

[Dechs Kaison]

Does anyone remember this little exchange?

@MoJo: what is the italicized keyword for your offensive weapon expertise? This will help clear you as town if your word matches mine.

I did a search in the thread and nobody has used the word yet. It's not in the sample role PM in the OP. Any other Master Builders should check their role PMs to see what the word is.

Im not sure were supposed to claim italicizes role pms.

I mean best i can tell you is like I said, i'm adept at making offensive weapons. If i were getting a master builders masters degree from lego university, my focus would be in weapons.

Then, after it was confirmed that we could share ability names:

Whatever.

I'm Vitruvius, Master Builder.

I specialize in prophecy and the afterlife.

Alright MoJo, what's the word?

Was the college post too subtle?

I alrady told you what I specialize in.

So, we all know that the italicized word was specialization. Check Ham's role PM. Why would MoJo be so reluctant to just say the word? Especially after Imopen gave such a strong hint. What does college have to do with specialization? Then he just copies Imopen's wording, but he still never says what the italicized word is. I think he was just trying to be vague in the hopes that we'd assume he was being on the level. I think he was lying about his day one claim. I think the vig shot never happened. I think CK is our remaining scum.

Even if I'm wrong (in fact, especially if I'm wrong), I'm going to feel bad hanging CK for something the previous player in his slot did.

Vote Col. Khaddafi

[Mcdonalds]

unvote

[Dechs Kaison]

By the way, I'm going to be posting at weird hours from now on. I've moved to the Middle East for at least the next two years.

[imopen2]

ugh, even though i think ck is scum, i find it very difficult to abandon my result on az...i will have to think about this.

[Col. Khaddafi]

Oh yeah I'm a Master Builder specialized on offensive weapons, I'm the metal beard pirate guy

[Azrael]

I wondered yesterday whether I ought to hammer Imopen just to protect the town from itself. : /

Dechs, the possibility of a sabotage device has been raised several times, first by Red, then by me. It's a possibility, provided that the scum team has a master builder. But we don't have any firm evidence that either the scum team has any master builders, or that that's what happened.

Given the choice between jumping at shadows over a device that I'm not sure the scum have the capability to build, or evaluating their behavior, I think Imopen wouldn't be nearly so dense about wanting to be vigged instead of lynched, and like you said, they couldn't have switched two results in a single night. And if Imopen is scum, so is Red. And neither of those two have demonstrated any building abilities, whereas CK has. If Imopen isn't scum, then CK would have to be at the top of the list of possible scum, which makes very little sense to me behaviorally or in terms of his role capabilities and night actions.

[Azrael]

Something else I just realized, we never had Red or Imopen claim their flavor.

[imopen2]

How has ck demonstrated anything? I am not against being lynched over vigged. I'm against you guys lynching me and pretending that ck is going to vig you afterwards when the town will have no ability to force him to do it (and has no proof that a vig even exists).

[Dechs Kaison]

Yeah... CK has not demonstrated anything. Hell, I haven't. No one really has except Rez.

[Azrael]

Yeah... CK has not demonstrated anything. Hell, I haven't. No one really has except Rez.

He was the first person to claim a specialization.

[Dechs Kaison]

Yet he somehow couldn't tell anyone that the italicized word was Specialization.

[imopen2]

I'm not saying anyone has demonstrated anything. I'm saying he certainly hasn't (contrary to what az just said). Let's lynch this lier already. It seems that every time az posts we have to point out flaws or correct something. He is actively misleading us

[RedNihilist]

I wondered yesterday whether I ought to hammer Imopen just to protect the town from itself. : /

Dechs, the possibility of a sabotage device has been raised several times, first by Red, then by me. It's a possibility, provided that the scum team has a master builder. But we don't have any firm evidence that either the scum team has any master builders, or that that's what happened.

Given the choice between jumping at shadows over a device that I'm not sure the scum have the capability to build, or evaluating their behavior, I think Imopen wouldn't be nearly so dense about wanting to be vigged instead of lynched, and like you said, they couldn't have switched two results in a single night. And if Imopen is scum, so is Red. And neither of those two have demonstrated any building abilities, whereas CK has. If Imopen isn't scum, then CK would have to be at the top of the list of possible scum, which makes very little sense to me behaviorally or in terms of his role capabilities and night actions.

I'm having some issues with the bolded sentence, and I'd like you to link me the post when you previously addressed the possibility of scum being able to sabotage town's actions.

Also, why should scum need to have any Master Builder to mess up with our devices?
Go read G_R's pm, he had built-in powers that let him mess with other's results without having to build anything, and a "saboteur" role would make sense in the flavour.

[RedNihilist]

Something else I just realized, we never had Red or Imopen claim their flavor.

This gave me an idea, actually.
Let's all call our specialization!

I'm Princess Unkitty ( ), and I'm especially good at building devices that make others happy

Now, everyone, be good townies and claim your specializations

[Col. Khaddafi]

How has ck demonstrated anything? I am not against being lynched over vigged. I'm against you guys lynching me and pretending that ck is going to vig you afterwards when the town will have no ability to force him to do it (and has no proof that a vig even exists).

You always love skipping the facts. Like the fact that my plan to lynch/vig would have worked, provided that the first 3 votes would have been mine, and Az.

Its almost as you are most invested in saving your ass rather than furthering the town cause.

[Col. Khaddafi]

Answer me this: If both me and Azrael are scum, why are you still alive?

[RedNihilist]

How has ck demonstrated anything? I am not against being lynched over vigged. I'm against you guys lynching me and pretending that ck is going to vig you afterwards when the town will have no ability to force him to do it (and has no proof that a vig even exists).

You always love skipping the facts. Like the fact that my plan to lynch/vig would have worked, provided that the first 3 votes would have been mine, and Az.

Its almost as you are most invested in saving your ass rather than furthering the town cause.

It wouldn't actually work as you intended, though, as Az's vote would have been resetted by his death
I mean, I don't want to sound abrasive, but you presented your plan like it was flawless but it ended up being quite sketchy instead.

[RedNihilist]

Also, please clain even if you have already done so, I don't want to go back rereading everything...

[Dechs Kaison]

I said earlier, I'm Superman, a vanilla master builder. No specialization.

I submitted three inventions day one. I began building something that would take two days to build. I didn't realize until day 3 that I could have submitted another three inventions on day 2. ToDay I began building something to supplement what I completed last Night.

ToDay I submitted two plans that would allow me to scan for quicktopics. One was to look specifically for the one claimed by Az/Rez (it would take one day to build). The other would scan for any town generated quicktopics (would take two days to build). Decided against building either.

[imopen2]

How has ck demonstrated anything? I am not against being lynched over vigged. I'm against you guys lynching me and pretending that ck is going to vig you afterwards when the town will have no ability to force him to do it (and has no proof that a vig even exists).

You always love skipping the facts. Like the fact that my plan to lynch/vig would have worked, provided that the first 3 votes would have been mine, and Az.

Its almost as you are most invested in saving your ass rather than furthering the town cause.

Go reread red's response above. Your plan was flawedk, it couldn't work the way you presented it, and my post was explicitly saying that I was open to the idea of your plan, but it just wasn't feasible.

I've also already explained that az didn't hammer since he believed the lynch was inevitable if he held the hammer, and felt it would gain him town cred going into the night phase. You can tell by his post after the wagon fell apart that he wishes he had just hammered now.

"Save the town from itself" is not very townie language

[Col. Khaddafi]

Jesus, now you're arguing semantics? How about some real scumhunting instead of going all OMGUS like usual?

[Col. Khaddafi]

Oh yeah I'm a Master Builder specialized on offensive weapons, I'm the metal beard pirate guy

Also Red are you lazy or what? I've just reposted my claim a few posts above yours.

[Azrael]

I wondered yesterday whether I ought to hammer Imopen just to protect the town from itself. : /

Dechs, the possibility of a sabotage device has been raised several times, first by Red, then by me. It's a possibility, provided that the scum team has a master builder. But we don't have any firm evidence that either the scum team has any master builders, or that that's what happened.

Given the choice between jumping at shadows over a device that I'm not sure the scum have the capability to build, or evaluating their behavior, I think Imopen wouldn't be nearly so dense about wanting to be vigged instead of lynched, and like you said, they couldn't have switched two results in a single night. And if Imopen is scum, so is Red. And neither of those two have demonstrated any building abilities, whereas CK has. If Imopen isn't scum, then CK would have to be at the top of the list of possible scum, which makes very little sense to me behaviorally or in terms of his role capabilities and night actions.

I'm having some issues with the bolded sentence, and I'd like you to link me the post when you previously addressed the possibility of scum being able to sabotage town's actions.

Also, why should scum need to have any Master Builder to mess up with our devices?
Go read G_R's pm, he had built-in powers that let him mess with other's results without having to build anything, and a "saboteur" role would make sense in the flavour.

Sure:

Warning: extreme WIFOM inside:

Because it's a stupid gambit if he's the only scum left. We lynch Az, find out he's lying, then lynch him. The only way him lying makes sense is if there are two scum to end the game.

... or we find out that Az was in fact town, and imopen goes with "Somebody's interfered with my power! I explicitly stated I would have used it! We're getting outplayed!" and we end up actually not knowing if he's the desperate scum that's trying to grind his way out or if somebody has really just messed up with his power.
The scenario is not as stupid as you're hoping, imho.

If both Imopen and I flip town under this scenario, I think the town still goes ahead and kills you with its final lynch, and wins.

But it wasn't a cop investigation. It was a "Mod, tell me if this statement is true or a lie", with the statement being "I am town".

The only way to subvert that would be a master builder, which, hopefully, the scum don't have at their disposal and/or couldn't build a device that quickly.

Regardless, I don't think that possibility is likely enough for us to worry about. If one of you, Dechs, or Lord McD are scum, I'll be flabbergasted.

Also, you're saying that you think GR's jailer/roleblock proves that the scum could very well have been given an ability to replace the results of a liar detector test as they see fit?

That's not even a named role, Red. There's absolutely zero reason to assume that the scum were given highly specific methods of countering extremely specific inventions that the the town *might* choose to build.

I can sense CK's getting about as frustrated with this travesty as I am.

"Saving the town from itself" isn't an idea a townie would think? I'm pretty sure that's exactly what ANY townie in this situation would be thinking right now.

We need to get on with the process of killing us both so that Red and Imopen lose, preferably by lynching imopen first, but whatever guarantees Red and Imopen die before they can win is good by me.

I don't want to hear what Dechs' plan is, but I don't know if I'm comfortable counting on it to prevent a mafia victory. Maybe if he confirms that it can't be roleblocked, redirected, doesn't rely on targeting a particular person correctly, and doesn't involve a targeting ability on imopen? There's a lot of different ways relying on a single person's plan could go wrong, so I'd prefer to come up with redundant fail-safes, if I'm the first to go.

[imopen2]

Jesus, now you're arguing semantics? How about some real scumhunting instead of going all OMGUS like usual?

Why are you so quick to defend az? It's like you have no reservations as to his alignment

[Col. Khaddafi]

I've been defending Az? My plan all day long has been to smoke both of you guys

[Dechs Kaison]

Shit.

Unvote

I'm just confused. I can find pretty good reasons to clear almost everybody.

[Dechs Kaison]

Alright. New plan.

I'm just going to trust the cop. If Imopen is lying, it's because there's two scum left, but I don't care, I still clinch this for Town tonight.

Vote Azrael

[Azrael]

Alright. New plan.

I'm just going to trust the cop. If Imopen is lying, it's because there's two scum left, but I don't care, I still clinch this for Town tonight.

Vote Azrael

Any of us are "the cop", in this game. Ordinarily, you trust the cop unswervingly because there's only one for balance purposes, and you can verify them via counter-claim. Not the case here.

Again, if we can come up with a good failsafe plan, doesn't matter, kill order won't matter, but I'm not sure we've planned that out at this point.

[RedNihilist]

Oh yeah I'm a Master Builder specialized on offensive weapons, I'm the metal beard pirate guy

Also Red are you lazy or what? I've just reposted my claim a few posts above yours.

Right now I'm ill AND lazy, sorry

[RedNihilist]

Sure:

Thanks, I tried but I just couldn't find'em, Iswear.

Also, you're saying that you think GR's jailer/roleblock proves that the scum could very well have been given an ability to replace the results of a liar detector test as they see fit?

That's not even a named role, Red. There's absolutely zero reason to assume that the scum were given highly specific methods of countering extremely specific inventions that the the town *might* choose to build.

I can sense CK's getting about as frustrated with this travesty as I am.

"Saving the town from itself" isn't an idea a townie would think? I'm pretty sure that's exactly what ANY townie in this situation would be thinking right now.

We need to get on with the process of killing us both so that Red and Imopen lose, preferably by lynching imopen first, but whatever guarantees Red and Imopen die before they can win is good by me.

I don't want to hear what Dechs' plan is, but I don't know if I'm comfortable counting on it to prevent a mafia victory. Maybe if he confirms that it can't be roleblocked, redirected, doesn't rely on targeting a particular person correctly, and doesn't involve a targeting ability on imopen? There's a lot of different ways relying on a single person's plan could go wrong, so I'd prefer to come up with redundant fail-safes, if I'm the first to go.

Nope, I'm saying that scum COULD have some dedicated, setup-specific role that can mess with the device we build.
Something like "Mod, I want the next usage of CK's invention to fizzle".

Be mindful that I've already stated that I'm willing to follow the Occam's Razor and consider you scum, as imopen claims having you as confirmed scum + myself having him as town.

I don't see any logical reason for you to discard pre-emptively any explanation of what could have gone wrong with our inventions, you're just being overly confrontational because you're trapped in a corner.

[RedNihilist]

Alright. New plan.

I'm just going to trust the cop. If Imopen is lying, it's because there's two scum left, but I don't care, I still clinch this for Town tonight.

Vote Azrael

Votecount, bitte.

[Stardust]

Votecount!

Azrael (3): imopen2, RedNihilist, Dechs Kaison

Not voting: Azrael, Col. Khaddafi, Lord_Mcdonalds

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

[RedNihilist]

Arigato gozaimasu

[RedNihilist]

Would not lynching be a proper move?

[Azrael]

Votecount, bitte.

Chomping at the bit a little, are we?

Dechs, we still need to figure out a plan involving LMD and CK that doesn't lose us the game, if we're choosing to lynch me today.

Problem is, that's probably going to be a bit difficult at this point, as I'm suspecting everyone has already submitted their plans for the day, and because CK's role slot is probably building a vig-kill of some stripe.

If we no-lynch today, that'd give me (or both Red AND Imopen, if you trust that pair) the ability to potentially assist either CK or LMD in whatever they're trying to build. Depending on what we build, we'd be effectively trading a townie life forward, but on the upside, gaining an-almost certain scum kill on the following day, which is very much worth it.

If the scum can find a way to pull off two kills in a single night, it won't work, but I think that possibility is remote enough that we can skate around it. A more pertinent downside, is if everyone has already blown their load in submitting all their plans, there's no way we can rig our kills to be simultaneous (a device which vigs Azrael when Imopen is lynched, for instance).

CK, LMD, have you finished submitting all your available plans to the mod?