(POST ROTATION) JESKAI BURN

[dpaine88]

If its excellent vs giant green creatures, and there is a ton of giant green creatures in the format, and very little control, why not play it?
Also obviously amazing in the mirror.

[LP, of the Fires]

My aversion to it is that we're a burn deck and I want to be able to proactively play all of my cards. I want the highest density of live topdecks for when the game goes long. I imagine it's shitty to draw palm, pass, and have yoru opponent play a nylea's disciple getting out of burn range, or drawing into a counterspell, etc.

I still think the cards good, I just don't want to overload on the affect in game 1.

[dpaine88]

I think you are singling palm out, you can think of shitty scenarios for any card.

What if you draw Magma Jet there? banishing light? Seeker of the way??

Yeah we all want to see 4 damage spells off the top later on in the game, but be realistic.

[LP, of the Fires]

Not what Im doing at all. Just saying why I don't like the card in large quantities game 1.

[Valdarith]

Strawman arguments are not helpful. LP made a good point.

[dpaine88]

I feel you but since when is a 2-of considered large quantities?

[dpaine88]

This exact burn deck has all the top8's on TCG player right now including top8 a 5k, and 2 top8 in same States and one that got 1st at a states.

[deck]
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Seeker of the Way

1 Chandra, Pyromaster

3 Arc Lightning
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
[/deck]

[dpaine88]

Here is also Zem's list from his CFB article.

[deck]
Lands
4 x Battlefield Forge
4 x Temple of Triumph
1 x Wind-Scarred Crag
11 x Mountain
2 x Plains
Creatures
4 x Goblin Rabblemaster
4 x Monastery Swiftspear
4 x Seeker of the Way
Noncreature Spells
3 x Arc Lightning
4 x Chained to the Rocks
2 x Chandra, Pyromaster
1 x Deflecting Palm
4 x Lightning Strike
4 x Magma Jet
4 x Searing Blood
4 x Stoke the Flames

Sideboard
1 x Arc Lightning
2 x Banishing Light
1 x Chandra, Pyromaster
2 x Erase
4 x Firedrinker Satyr
1 x Ride Down
4 x Satyr Firedancer
[/deck]

[dpaine88]

The mana is obviously way better, but no flying creatures, and forced to run Palm and Blood.

[Jasper]

I tested the R/W list, and posted my own list in the R/W aggro thread.

It does really good against Jeskai Burn, mostly due to the lands and the mainboard Deflecting Palm's. Less self inflicted damage, and less lands coming in tapped. Even on the draw, the R/W list just takes control of the matchup due to not losing any tempo to the lands.

I personally dropped Jeskai entirely just due to the mana base. I'll be playing R/W or mono Red at States this weekend. I kind of like how R/W control looks right now too.

[dpaine88]

Holy shit....straight raping on Cockatrice with the Boros Burn version. Not one competitive game yet.

Swiftspear and Searing Blood is the real deal.

Chained feels so much better now with lack of enchantment removal,counting for prowess(where it didnt for YP$) and also costing 1 mana in a world of expensive removal spells.

[GodzillaAteMe]

I actually played the Boros Burn version to 4-0 at FNM last week, beating Mono Green Devotion, 2 Jeskai tempo decks, and a Mono Red deck. My results were the same as what you found: Swiftspear with Searing Blood or hell, even Seeker of the Way is just a beating. Plus a lot of people aren't expecting Chained.

It was definitely more explosive, but any games where my opponent could stabilize, even with just a Courser or two, meant trouble for the deck. You lack the evasion of Mantis Rider, the utility of Jeskai Charm, and the card advantage of Dig Through Time/Steam Augury, but make up for it in explosiveness and mana consistency. A lot of times I had dealt 6-7 damage while my opponent kept playing scry lands. I feel like it matches up well to Jeskai since they're playing 8 Searing Blood targets, but if they switch to Brimaz it will be tough.

[dpaine88]

Been playing past 4 hours and still have not dropped a game with Boros Burn, on cockatrice mind you.

So much more consistant than Jeskai omg..

[Jasper]

Been playing past 4 hours and still have not dropped a game with Boros Burn, on cockatrice mind you.

So much more consistant than Jeskai omg..

Perhaps I should have posted that list in this thread...

Anyways, I prefer straight R/W to Jeskai, just for consistency.

[Whole]

I've been playing around with the list on MTGO because it was so cheap for me. I'm not sold on it yet. Some games feel unfair and unlosable, but I also have games where I just flood, or draw a creature entirely too late (no repeatable damage source). The fact that there is no hasty flier in R/W is a big letdown...unless we go down the Flame Wreath Phoenix route???

[Jasper]

I've been playing around with the list on MTGO because it was so cheap for me. I'm not sold on it yet. Some games feel unfair and unlosable, but I also have games where I just flood, or draw a creature entirely too late (no repeatable damage source). The fact that there is no hasty flier in R/W is a big letdown...unless we go down the Flame Wreath Phoenix route???

From my limited testing with that list, I found that 24 lands was too many, and bumped it down to 23. I'm also not particularly sold on Chandra, Pyromaster in the main. 22 may be the actual correct number, with 1/2 in the side for going bigger on Walkers/Fliers.

You have 2 choices for fliers. Ashcloud Phoenix, or old faithful, Stormbreath Dragon. I think the deck could stand to run 2 Phoenix in the main, and maybe sideboard 2 Dragons and a land or something, for specific matchups. I suck ass at making sideboards though, and decks in general, so don't take my word for it. (*Hasn't done a single good thing since Red Devotion rotated*)

There is also Wingmate Roc, but it has double white, and you have to trigger Raid to get value out of it, and the birds are 3/4's, and etc etc, don't play it.

[Whole]

By "the list" I meant a similar R/W burn list, my bad. I'm running 23 lands, no Chandra main board, 1 yolo Font of Ire main, and Tormenting Voice. This is mainly because I don't have a set of Rabblemasters...but to be honest, does Rabblemaster even connect that much? Seems like even a 3 drop is too slow for what this deck is trying to do (takes a bit long to start getting value, then just gets stonewalled). I was trying out Brimaz because I love Brimaz and he can attack into a few more things, but it makes the mana base pretty wonky (4 Evolving Wilds type wonky).

edit: Anyways, should we make a separate thread because I think these will be two different decks as they evolve (Jeskai leads to a much more controlling post board game). Maybe just edit your Tilt-o-Matic post to be about R/W burn (because it is still a Deflecting Palm tilt-o-matic deck) rather than...Naya Prowess Become Immense or whatever you posted in there lol.

[Jasper]

By "the list" I meant a similar R/W burn list, my bad. I'm running 23 lands, no Chandra main board, 1 yolo Font of Ire main, and Tormenting Voice. This is mainly because I don't have a set of Rabblemasters...but to be honest, does Rabblemaster even connect that much? Seems like even a 3 drop is too slow for what this deck is trying to do (takes a bit long to start getting value, then just gets stonewalled). I was trying out Brimaz because I love Brimaz and he can attack into a few more things, but it makes the mana base pretty wonky (4 Evolving Wilds type wonky).

edit: Anyways, should we make a separate thread because I think these will be two different decks as they evolve (Jeskai leads to a much more controlling post board game). Maybe just edit your Tilt-o-Matic post to be about R/W burn (because it is still a Deflecting Palm tilt-o-matic deck) rather than...Naya Prowess Become Immense or whatever you posted in there lol.

Eh, I'd hate to clutter that Tilt-o-Matic thread with an actual good deck.

I think it's fine in here, unless someone wants to just make a thread for R/W Burn.

[hoeiberg]

Disclaimer: I haven't played the R/W list at all, and only played 5 games at FNM with Jeskai so take everything with a grain of salt (or a truck load)

I like the look of the R/W list, I really do. It's great that the mana is better, and I love that it gets to play chained as that card is just crazy tempo. However, I would feel awful having to cut what i currently feel are the best two cards in the deck: Jeskai Charm and Mantis Rider. Both are the card I find myself scrying and hoping to topdeck, they are just insanely strong. Replacing these cards with Searing Blood and Arc lightning seems to me like a bad decision in a format dominated by Polukranos, Courser and Siege Rhino (would love to be proven wrong though).

[Platypus]

I think it's fine in here, unless someone wants to just make a thread for R/W Burn.

I can put up one later today. There's a couple of different lists for a RW Burn deck, and I'm interested in that discussion since I'm not going for Jeskai at the moment (don't have the mana base for it). If it turn out that Jeskai is better, then the RW thread can die out later.

[LP, of the Fires]

Related to the RW burn deck, I was playing Jeskai Burn today with swiftspears instead of Rabblemasters main and QUICKLY noticed that swiftspear into seeker of the way+spells was a pretty brutal combination that felt very powerful.

Also, for Jeskai players, played narset main and it was awesome. She's actually better game one since in postboard games, you tend to dilute your deck with counterspells, while in game one, you can just flip a bunch of burn so much more often.

[Jasper]

This exact burn deck has all the top8's on TCG player right now including top8 a 5k, and 2 top8 in same States and one that got 1st at a states.

[deck]
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Seeker of the Way

1 Chandra, Pyromaster

3 Arc Lightning
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
[/deck]

Took me forever to figure out that this was 62 cards. I guess subtract 2 lands, and it's all good.


[deck]
Creatures 12
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Satyr Firedancer
4 Seeker of the Way

Other Spells 26
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Arc Lightning
3 Chained to the Rocks
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Searing Blood
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands 22
4 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Wind-Scarred Crag

Sideboard 15
4 Hushwing Gryff
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Banishing Light
2 Circle of Flame
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Erase
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
[/deck]

This seems about right. Sideboarding the land may not be necessary, but I haven't started testing this extensively yet to see how the mana base works. May need more copies of Erase if you expect the silly combo deck to be around in any significant number. Stormbreath Dragon may also be nice out of the side, against Monsters, although it's somewhat high on the curve, and you'd probably rather just burn them out and Palm them once.

Hushwing Gryff seems pretty sick out of the sideboard. Really puts a damper on [card]Nylea's Disciple[/card] and Siege Rhino, effectively just doing what Skullcrack used to do for us.


Edit: I can now play Standard, and tell people to HUSH and TALK TO THE HAND in a competitive setting. It's perfect, that's all I needed to know. Playing this deck at States.

[dpaine88]

Most lists I saw are running 22 land.

Also, I found Chandra to be great in this deck since you have more early guys and more prowess.

[dpaine88]

Yeah sorry I was wrong, there is differences in the deck.

Didnt even notice that one had 24 land and 0 rabblemaster.

I'm running 22 land and 4 rabble obviously.

I made some changes to the TCG decks and then realized I was left with Zems exact deck lol

[Purp]

Is it worth playing Firedrinker right now?

[rcwraspy]

Dpaine have you tested phoenix in the rw list?

[dpaine88]

I'd say no to Firedrinker until more control decks pop up.

Also, control seems to be an excellenet matchup. Only reason it was bad before was Rev. Without Rev they cant really pull ahead and it gives you many turns to topdeck burn spells and kill them.
Aside from Resolute Archangel, fuck that card.

@Raspy-- Phoenix has been in my board for all the burn I have tried but I just have only played 1 matchup and didn't draw Phoenix.

Not sure how good he is outside of the control matchup or slower midrange decks.

[Purp]

I like hushwing a lot right now.

Even though stormbreath is pro white, it can be deflecting palmed correct?

[pikachufan2164]

I like hushwing a lot right now.

Even though stormbreath is pro white, it can be deflecting palmed correct?

Yes. Deflecting Palm says "a source of your choice." Choosing doesn't target, so you can choose Stormbreath Dragon.

[Valdarith]

I don't mind Firedrinker in the deck since you're running Chained to the Rocks and Chandra maindeck. It lines up well against Caryatid which is nice. Just makes your aggro mirrors worse.

[Purp]

Some control decks are running Resolute Archangel. Obviously it's not as debilitating as Rev, but they do have some options of catching up.

I played against an esper deck who resolved two in one game. Card is ridiculous. Needles to say in G# that shit got Hushhhhhhwinged

[rcwraspy]

The entire constellation deck including doomwake giant

[Platypus]

I think it's fine in here, unless someone wants to just make a thread for R/W Burn.

I can put up one later today. There's a couple of different lists for a RW Burn deck, and I'm interested in that discussion since I'm not going for Jeskai at the moment (don't have the mana base for it). If it turn out that Jeskai is better, then the RW thread can die out later.

The thread is up:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3036

[dpaine88]

Why cant we discuss both here???

[Valdarith]

It's actually the best performing deck on MODO right now.

[dpaine88]

Cut what for Firedrinker??

[BlakLanner]

States was an absolute disaster for me. I could not draw anything for the life of me and went 0-2. The one useful thing that I did take back from it was that there is an absolute ton of Jeskai decks running around to combat the green decks. This means we need substantial tech for the mirror.

[Valdarith]

Brimaz is all the tech you need. I played a Jeskai burn mirror last night and I won because I had Brimaz and he did not.

[BlakLanner]

Brimaz was insufficient. It found itself immediately dead as well as its replacement.

Edit: Clarification - I do believe that Brimaz is very important and useful to this matchup as well as others. I just do not believe that Brimaz alone is sufficient.

[Whole]

3 Jeskai Burn decks in top 8.