Open Site Blathering (formerly Advice from iridium ITT)

[Captain Murphy]

Infraction for not having the same viewpoint, lol

[Azrael]

Why be suprized, I mean they seriously thought JJ was sending death threats to Ria.

I wrote that off to Ria and maybe ER and Viper paranoia, not to the rest of them.

*sigh*

Such a dysfunctional culture.

[Pendulum]

Oh, good, this will be an excellent opportunity to learn more about this silly rift for all parties involved.

Little confused what the major issue is here? It's against the rules to advocate violence, we all know that.

[Blackhound]

blackhound, your previous nickname of "minstrel show" has been redacted. it is currently being changed to "helga pataki."

thank you for summiting with the staff of mtgcommunity. we appreciate your continued service and patronage here.

It is good to see that you have come to your senses, frankly I am suprized that the people running this website have not been issued a lawsuit yet. After all various members of this website have been involved/accused in the following over the past 6 months.

malicious attacks.
Death threats.
Doxing.
Hacking Salvation and placing a virus there.

I also hear that said people are a bunch of "cowards and scumbags".

I will also except my new nickname of helga pataki,
admins, please change my custom title to helga pataki.

Thankyou for you time and Patience in understanding.

Yours sincerly.

Blackhound

[Azrael]

[quote=""Some Guy"]
6) Repeat each step more aggresively. (Pick the guy up, shout at your bro, pick up the old healthy person and throw them at him, punch harder, make a powerpoint, ect..)
[/quote]

Violence. ^^^

[Col. Khaddafi]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=477742

Words fail.

Cliff notes for the banned:

1) Get ahold of his friend and ask what garbage he is feeding your brother's brain.
2) Talk to your brother and ask "did you really have any of these beliefs before this guy?"
3) Show him old, healthy people that eat banana bread.
4) Punch him in the face.
5) Try to calmly explain the inconsistency of his actions.
6) Repeat each step more aggresively. (Pick the guy up, shout at your bro, pick up the old healthy person and throw them at him, punch harder, make a powerpoint, ect..)

"Punch him in the face" and "punch harder" are unacceptable in WCT.
Advocating violence falls under the category of malicious advice. Suspension issued.
- Teia

CI thread subsequently made by a third party. Two "trolling/spam" infractions immediately issued by Sene, and the thread closed by Gals in the space of 18 posts. Ruling upheld b/c RLA is not a place to joke around about violence...

My favorite bit of unintentional irony:

MTGSalvation might be one of the most regressive, insular online communities I've ever visited. This is par for the course, especially now that they are under new management and have to look good for their new handlers.

Spam/troll infraction.
-Sene

Why does someone who does not agree with your viewpoint have to be 'trolling'?

I honestly expected them to immediately reverse the ruling and
maybe bust Teia's chops a little bit. Not so much.

As the person who is responsible for having written the RLA rules I must point out that the concept of malicious advice was meant to cover the issues of providing intentionally deceptive advice (like advising the use of wrong meds or something serious akin to that, browbeating people who come asking for help, etc..)

The problem with the current administration of MTGS has always been the belief that if they come out with the perfect set of rules, they can be excused of the burden of exerting common sense (something they have shown to be incapable of, over and over). Entwine with a staff composed of people who have aspergers (Teia), people who are scared of crossing the paths of MTGS banned members IRL (Sene) or passive-agressive people who prefer discussing things by proxy despite having two websites and numerous IM venues at hands reach to do a proper discussion (Galspanic, Nai), and you get this sort of abuse.

tl;dr: I devised this
set of rules with the expectation that they would be enforced by people who know how to properly interact with others in society (be it online or IRL) and its sad to say that I shouldn't even have bothered with this since this set of (common sense) rules is being abused by a morally corrupt staff.

[Col. Khaddafi]

I am really disgusted to see the rules I wrote being so blatantly misused. What was I thinking when I agreed to be staff in that place?

[Col. Khaddafi]

blackhound, your previous nickname of "minstrel show" has been redacted. it is currently being changed to "helga pataki."

thank you for summiting with the staff of mtgcommunity. we appreciate your continued service and patronage here.

It is good to see that you have come to your senses, frankly I am suprized that the people running this website have not been issued a lawsuit yet. After all various members of this website have been involved/accused in the following over the past 6 months.

malicious attacks.
Death threats.
Doxing.
Hacking
Salvation and placing a virus there.

I also hear that said people are a bunch of "cowards and scumbags".

I will also except my new nickname of helga pataki, admins, please change my custom title to helga pataki.

Thankyou for you time and Patience in understanding.

Yours sincerly.

Blackhound

Is this a serious post????

[Thrillho]

lol@ hacking salvation and putting a virus there after we were the ones who informed MTGS that there may be an attempt at that by another party. class.

[Pendulum]

[quote=""Some Guy"]
6) Repeat each step more aggresively. (Pick the guy up, shout at your bro, pick up the old healthy person and throw them at him, punch harder, make a powerpoint, ect..)

Violence. ^^^[/quote]
Hey man, don't do that. I'm coming into this conversation on your terms, hoping to understand your viewpoint. I have realized that I've been wrong to simply be snarking at you this whole time, and would appreciate it if you'd realize I'm looking for the middle ground. That, unfortunately, is going to take a little more work to get through my thick skull.

[Pendulum]

lol@ hacking salvation and putting a virus there after we were the ones who informed MTGS that there may be an attempt at that by another party. class.

Even funnier when you google "foh Requiem".

[Captain Murphy]

blackhound, your previous nickname of "minstrel show" has been redacted. it is currently being changed to "helga pataki."

thank you for summiting with the staff of mtgcommunity. we appreciate your continued service and patronage here.

It is good to see that you have come to your senses, frankly I am suprized that the people running this website have not been issued a lawsuit yet. After all various members of this website have been involved/accused in the following over the past 6 months.

malicious attacks.
Death threats.
Doxing.
Hacking
Salvation and placing a virus there.

I also hear that said people are a bunch of "cowards and scumbags".

I will also except my new nickname of helga pataki, admins, please change my custom title to helga pataki.

Thankyou for you time and Patience in understanding.

Yours sincerly.

Blackhound

lol I have no computer knowledge, I couldn't hack anything. Plus we told sally about a hack leak we got, wen don't want to destroy MTGS we just think the staff are stupid.

[Captain Murphy]

Oh wait, thrills got in first

[Captain Murphy]

If an adult cannot control themselves to not hit someone because a user on a forum for cardboard told them to, they shouldn't be on the internet, period.

[Azrael]

This. So much this.

The problem with the current administration of MTGS has always been the belief that if they come out with the perfect set of rules, they can be excused of the burden of exerting common sense.

I am really disgusted to see the rules I wrote being so blatantly misused. What was I thinking when I agreed to be staff in that place?

That things were going to be better than they were.

Hey man, don't do that. I'm coming into this conversation on your terms, hoping to understand your viewpoint. I have realized that I've been wrong to
simply be snarking at you this whole time, and would appreciate it if you'd realize I'm looking for the middle ground. That, unfortunately, is going to take a little more work to get through my thick skull.

Didn't mean to snark at you - really wasn't sure if you were joking or not. I can't say I'm particularly eager to get into a back and forth about it, though.

Still - the rule was against advocating violence. I'd say there's a pretty clear difference between actually advocating violence (see God of Cyanide's post in that thread), and some silly joke about throwing punching people or throwing old people through the air. One is bad advice and problematic- one is a joke with no potential for causing mischief. One is covered under the rule - and one is not covered.

But somehow, something that wasn't covered under the RLA subforum rules as written (there's maybe one sentence buried in there about joking being in poor taste) was transmuted into an
auto-suspension offence. An auto-suspension, misattributed to the wrong rule by the mod on the ground, and at best based off of a suggestion not to joke around in RLA b/c that's deemed in poor taste.

So...we have a suspension - no warnings, just an auto-suspension - for a "bad joke".

[Thrillho]

Sene, since you're here now, why do you think there's such a disconnect between what you occasionally see as spam and trolling versus what people view as voicing an opinion different from your own?

Follow-up, what about voicing a difference of opinion that is critical trolling? Is it not possible to hold a critical difference of opinion in earnest? Does this, by your standard, make a good majority of your posts on this forum related to criticism of our users and forum trolling?

[Sene]

people who are scared of crossing the paths of MTGS banned members IRL (Sene)

[Col. Khaddafi]

Well yes indeed Sene

(pssst: your post would have been infracted for spam in the site you moderate. lucky for you we are nice people here )

[Azrael]

people who are scared of crossing the paths of MTGS banned members IRL (Sene)

WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[Thrillho]

As someone whose native language is hyperbole, I can understand the pressing threat of people demanding people throw the elderly around as a form of non-verbal communication.

[Blackhound]

I should have put a disclaimer with my post, so without further ado.

The stories and information I posted are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted as fact.

[Sene]

Well indeed yes Sene

(pssst: your post would have been infracted for spam in the site you moderate. lucky for you we are nice people here )

I posted that because I already knew it wouldn't be moderated for spam

Anyway, you are under the assumption that I recognized you in Lisbon on Friday. I didn't. I wouldn't at all have minded talking with you, so now I guess we've cleared that up

[Col. Khaddafi]

I should have put a disclaimer with my post, so without further ado.

The stories and information I posted are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted as fact.

Allright, glad we sorted that out, you got me scared for a minute there

[Blackhound]

hey Sene, who are our 2 guests ?

[Col. Khaddafi]

Well indeed yes Sene

(pssst: your post would have been infracted for spam in the site you moderate. lucky for you we are nice people here )

I posted that because I already knew it wouldn't be moderated for spam

Anyway, you are under the assumption that I recognized you in Lisbon on Friday. I didn't. I wouldn't at all have minded talking with you, so now I guess we've cleared that up

Well that's one misunderstanding sorted out only a few left to solve.

So now that we have cleared that up, maybe you can answer to the questions Thrillho's asking you? I'd be interesting to have your take (specially since I wrote the rules you guys are misusing for suspending people over your site).

[Captain Murphy]

Why do I have diplomatic immunity Sene? Gals told me to ask boubs here lol

[Col. Khaddafi]

hey Sene, who are our 2 guests ?

I dunno, but one of them is from the Seattle region. Possibly someone who is too scared of posting here.

[Thrillho]

My questions are 100% serious and also I do not think your critical difference of opinion is trolling or spammy, for reference. I do feel like if our roles were reversed and I was operating you on MTGS and you were me making those posts there, I would give you a spam/troll infraction for those posts. I asked these questions during my appeal and they were unanswered, but this is a much more neutral ground to discuss that since I honestly could give less of a fuck about a several-months-old infraction discussion on a site I'm currently banned on.

[Pendulum]

Thank you for that, Az. Let me know if you get to a mood where a little back-and-forth is in order.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0TMtK48iww

Also, how you enjoying the GRRR here, Sene?

[Pendulum]

Ugh, so elusive!

[Azrael]

I mean, I can understand why a so-called "joke" like "just go shoot yourself" has the potential to backfire. That's not a "joke" at all, it's a flame or troll and it could have some pretty drastic consequences.

But here? It's not the joking that's problematic, it's whether or not you have people who are being assholes to one another and to people in a vulnerable state of mind. There's not even the shadow of a genuine problem like that, here.

No one was going to get their feelings hurt - and no one is going to be throwing elderly people at their brother.

We just have the mechanical, thoughtless application of a rule, serving no beneficial purpose.

[Mogadishu Jones]

I'm sure it's all just a misunderstanding and the staff did nothing wrong.

[Sene]

I'll try to quickly explain what's up, mmkay.

The reason why the thread was closed (I talked with Galspanic) was because it was a question that was answered. Had it not been full of vitriol and passive aggressiveness, having it as a thread discussing that rule might have been useful, but it was drowned under trolling and spamming. Borderline stuff that was previously deemed okay in CI isn't necessarily considered okay anymore. We're doing stuff differently in that regard. Heck, in August the site felt so much in the hands of the users that I somehow felt compelled to plea to the users to stop being mean. So yeah, when CI threads are a mess of spamming/trolling/bullshit, then they are much more quickly closed now than in the past.

As for the RLA rules thing in particular, I expect we'll be talking about that... but in the Mod Lounge, sheltered from users who feel like making a drama storm over
it. Had it been a reasonable discussion, CI would have been fine. But the policies we used to have in CI - they didn't work. We'd give up to people who yelling, and as expected, that meant they were yelling even louder next time. The users were too entitled. Now we're trying to make up for it by changing stuff for the better (in the making), make better & fairer rules, but also make it clear in CI that staff's in charge and won't be browbeaten into submission. That's going to be better for everyone, I think.

[Blackhound]

"puts tin hat on, hides in a bunker"

[Checkbox]

You made it a drama storm by giving out trolling infractions when they publicly disagreed with your decision.

[Mogadishu Jones]

Really? There was vitriol over your continued soviet style modderation techniques? You don't say.......

[Sene]

You made it a drama storm by giving out trolling infractions when they publicly disagreed with your decision.

If they don't even try to be constructive, there will be infractions, and it will be the user's fault alone.

So yeah, that's where I stand here.

[Checkbox]

You didn't allow the conversation to take a constructive turn. Perhaps, instead of giving out infractions for disagreements, you could've said something like:

"Hey guys, I understand you disagree with the decision, but I'd like to know why. Turn this into a constructive conversation or the thread will be locked."

Obviously you can add the iridium CoC coat of polish, but something to that general effect.

[Checkbox]

The second post? Sure. The first one? What actual rule does that break? How much less content was in that post than Blade332's post of "You think people maliciously go out and "throw old people"? If so our conversation is done, thanks."

[Sene]

I didn't issue infractions for disagreements, you know. I issued infractions for spamming/trolling.