[Primer] Boros Burn

[magicdownunder]

Burn into the top 8. I enjoyed watching but cringed at that Chandra being played in game 3. Wow.

Raise the alarm has been phenomenal in testing and I wanted to thank MDU for the recent video content.

Cheers

I have a huge event on soon so if you can post your testing that would help immensely - I have to say, testing random brews online via paid tournaments is freaken expensive - esp. if they don't work .

[krose1313]

Burn into the top 8. I enjoyed watching but cringed at that Chandra being played in game 3. Wow.

Raise the alarm has been phenomenal in testing and I wanted to thank MDU for the recent video content.

Cheers

I have a huge event on soon so if you can post your testing that would help immensely - I have to say, testing random brews online via paid tournaments is freaken expensive - esp. if they don't work .

In my testing at first the card was only really good in the surprise factor role, once i learned some ins and outs of where to play it, it really shined. Like most cards in the deck it plays at its best when you're able to play two spells a turn. There was a time in testing where i wanted the interaction with YP$ too much and slow-rolled myself into bad situations. Ive had multiple game in the UW control MU that the damage done by RtA was exactly what the doctor ordered and got me there. MUs where I wasnt impressed were Mono-U and Jund. Also, the name Fire Alarm is frickin sweet.

[krose1313]

Also, our playstyle with the deck is very similar and it cracks me up when you board out the 4 charms and after a minute put 2-3 back in because I do it pretty often myself. Im not sure you get the same effect since youre on MTGO but when im playing paper and i use charm for indestructible, people stare blankly at me and the card and realize its a blow out. lol

[Kaitscralt]

he didn't play great game one, he played normal and seth manfield played horrible

[LP, of the Fires]

Correct is great.

Normal is awful because normal is how most people play... which is wrong.

[Kaitscralt]

above average then? he didn't have to do anything noteworthy

[Kaitscralt]

as someone who has played the match a million times, it looked like manfield could have won game one and chose not to starting with the jace minus

[NotARobot]

Well, he played fast and loose and got burned

[LP, of the Fires]

as someone who has played the match a million times, it looked like manfield could have won game one and chose not to starting with the jace minus

This... this I can agree with.

[Rhyno]

I still haven't decided if I'm running Burn or Rabblered at the invitational. I'm not interested in playing Burn if there's a lot of Jund Walkers but rabblered might be hated on.

[BlakLanner]

Do you really think your match up is that bad against Jund Walkers? I find it to be a rather good match up if you have the right cards in your sideboard (Toil/Trouble, etc) for it.

[Khaospawn]

I played Burn today in a GPT for GP Orlando with Guttler.


We both scrumped out.

[magicdownunder]

@NotARobot: Ever since I moved away from the dancer and Searing Blood plan I've been having issues with BW Control, you mention that you've been beating them quite abit what is your 75 and how are you boarding against them.

@Rhyno: Jund Walkers should be a good MU for burn and if Fatsuno stream indicates anything Rabble Red struggles against 3-6 sweepers (Anger + Charm).

[Valdarith]

Agreed on Jund Walkers and Burn. Burn is probably my worst matchup.

[Rhyno]

Jund Walkers can ramp out threats that both out-race and out-value burn (Nissa/Xenagos/Etc) while clogging the ground with the Caryatid/Courser package.
Post board they can exile Phoenix and Duress you.

So on paper the matchup appears bad, and in testing against good pilots it's been bad. While playing walkers in testing, neither version of burn has been unfavorable.

I'm also curious why anyone thinks Toil/Trouble is good against a deck running discard spells and trying to curve/ramp.

What matchup do you consider unfavorable? I feel like on DTR every matchup is dandy.

[HK1997]

Jund Walkers can ramp out threats that both out-race and out-value burn (Nissa/Xenagos/Etc) while clogging the ground with the Caryatid/Courser package.
Post board they can exile Phoenix and Duress you.

So on paper the matchup appears bad, and in testing against good pilots it's been bad. While playing walkers in testing, neither version of burn has been unfavorable.

I'm also curious why anyone thinks Toil/Trouble is good against a deck running discard spells and trying to curve/ramp.

What matchup do you consider unfavorable? I feel like on DTR every matchup is dandy.

The one and only thing that scares me in the Jund Walkers MU is a big Rakdos or back to back Rakdos with me holding a full grip of spells. Everything else is fairly
irrelevent if it is not played on curve or earlier by the Jund player and that's what we kill the Mana dorks for. And that's also why after T2 I dont shoot a dork unless he missed his land drop. Its about making sure that Courser is cast on T3 and not T2, Xenagos on T4 and not T3 and Nissa on T5+ and not T3. When the T4 Xenagos hits the board, your own grip and board decide wether or not you race him. I find it to be about 50/50. On the play with plenty of dmg in hand I'm comfortable to race him and an eventual Nissa - usually. Other times you will have to get rid of the PW and hope they dont have another one and make you wish you didnt blow away 3-6 dmg.
Do the maths and play the probabilities of what you'll draw over the next turns and make your decision when to ignore the board and go to the face. Remove coursers also only in the early game, if you have a choice. Later the card does less than a nyx ram (from our perspective). If you are having trouble with Jund walkers, bring in 2-3 searing Bloods to
blank his xenagos.

In the majority of the matches vs walkers the turn that Nissa is ACTUALLY played, is one to two turns too late to turn it around. Rakdos return ruins it all, play your spells smartly AND efficiently AND quickly. This forces you to go more to the face anyways because sometimes you have only him as a target. Putting on early pressure really messes with some Jund players minds. They dont block YP with caryatid (maybe f6 curse?), they forget to swing with xenagos token and I have often seen them keep more than 1 ground blocker back for my single mutavault... Bad players aside. Its still in our favor. Expect mistcutters and you'll be fine post board.

EDIT: count every turn how much a rakdos would make you discard and play as much as you can towards dealing the most damage. Sometimes that also involves holding lands of land nr4-5, just to have more to discard. Replacing spells with a phoenix from the graveyard is also wonderful. Nothing better then getting Rakdos'ed for 3 and throwing
away a phoenix and two lands and dont forget about xenagos +1 (some jund players have realized its really hard for them to race burn)

[BlakLanner]

I have loved Toil/Trouble against Walkers. They rarely empty their hand much early on so it deals a lot of damage. I pull my Phoenixes and YPs to blank their removal and become the purest burn deck I can.

UW Sphere Control is a bad matchup. Hexproof is a nightmare. Mono Blue is rough if we don't see very specific cards.

[Valdarith]

Jund Walkers can ramp out threats that both out-race and out-value burn (Nissa/Xenagos/Etc) while clogging the ground with the Caryatid/Courser package.
Post board they can exile Phoenix and Duress you.

So on paper the matchup appears bad, and in testing against good pilots it's been bad. While playing walkers in testing, neither version of burn has been unfavorable.

I'm also curious why anyone thinks Toil/Trouble is good against a deck running discard spells and trying to curve/ramp.

What matchup do you consider unfavorable? I feel like on DTR every matchup is dandy.

This is a fair assessment. It ultimately depends on how Jund has configured their 75 and the competency of the pilot. The majority of the players on MTGO that are playing
the deck as a flavor of the month do not know how to play it properly, but then again I could say the same thing about burn.

I will say that playskill being equal I feel the matchup is in favor of burn. Probably 65% preboard due to all the suboptimal sorcery speed removal moving toward 50-55% postboard.

[BrainsickHater]

I'm with Rhyno on Jund Walkers. They're faster and post-board they get a lot of interaction so we don't even have a fighting chance. The bad pilots who ramp with Nissa when they play her are very beatable, it's the ones who make a 4/4 every turn that are the problem. When they play Nissa correctly, the Walkers matchup is abysmal.

[les.classic]

Hey guys, I've been lurking for a week or so, very impressed by the wealth of knowledge on the deck. I'm just picking it up for some WMCQs, and being able to see the different iterations of the deck throughout time is invaluable. I was wondering if you could give me some help with sideboarding for each of the most common matchups.

First of all, this is what I'm trying currently:

[deck]
Lands
3 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
7 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice

Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer

Spells
3 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Stoke the Flames
4 Boros Charm
3 Lightning Strike
4 Shock
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Magma Jet
3 Raise the Alarm
2 Searing Blood

Sideboard
1 Skullcrack
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Searing Blood
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Deicide
3 Toil/Trouble
1 Pillar of Light
3 Satyr Firedancer
1
Banishing Light

[/deck]

This is what I've been doing/thinking for sideboarding:

Rabble Red
-3 Skullcrack, -3 Stoke the Flames
+3 Chandra, Pyromaster, +1 Searing Blood, +1 Banishing Light, +1 Chained to the Rocks

Bg Devotion
-4 Shock
+1 Skullcrack, +1 Chained to the Rocks, +1 Pillar of Light, +1 Banishing Light

Mono Blue Devotion
-3 Skullcrack, -4 Chandra's Phoenix, -3 Boros Charm
+3 Satyr Firedancer, +1 Searing Blood, +1 Deicide, +3 Chandra, Pyromaster, +1 Banishing Light, +1 Chained to the Rocks

GW Aggro
-4 Chandra's Phoenix, -4 Boros Charm
+3 Satyr Firedancer, +1 Searing Blood, +1 Pillar of Light, +1 Banishing Light, +1 Chained to the Rocks, +1 Deicide

Jund Walkers
-3 Young Pyromancer, -2 Chained to the rocks, -1 Shock
+3 Satyr Firedancer, +1 Searing Blood, +1 Banishing Light, +1 Pillar of Light
(On the Play, -3 Raise the Alarm, +3 Toil//Trouble?)

BW Control
-3 Young Promancer,-4 Shock, -1 Raise the Alarm
+3 Satyr Firedancer, +1 Searing Blood, +1 Banishing Light, +1
Skullcrack, +1 Pillar of Light, +1 Chained to the Rocks

RW Burn
- 4 Chandra's Phoenix, -2 Chained to the Rocks
+1 Searing Blood, +1 Banishing Light, +1 Skullcrack, +3 Chandra, Pyromaster
(On the Play,-3 Young Pyromancer, +3 Toil//Trouble?)

Mono Green Devotion
-4 Boros Charm, -3 Raise the Alarm, -1 Shock
+3 Satyr Firedancer, +1 Searing Blood, +1 Banishing Light, +1 Skullcrack, +1 Pillar of Light, +1 Chained to the Rocks

Planar Cleansing Control
-2 Searing Blood, -2 Chained to the Rocks, -2 Shock
+1 Skullcrack, 3 Toil//Trouble, +1 Pillar of Light, +1 Banishing Light

Detention Sphere Control
-2 Searing Blood, -2 Chained to the Rocks, -4 Shock
+1 Skullcrack, 3 Toil//Trouble, +1 Pillar of Light, +1 Banishing Light, +1 Deicide, +1 Banishing Light

BW Control
-3Young Pyromancer, -4 Shock,
+3 Satyr Firedancer, +1 Searing Blood, +1 Banishing Light, +1 Pillar of Light, +1 Chained to the Rocks

Brave Naya
-4 Chandra's Phoenix, -3 Skullcrack
+3 Satyr Firedancer, +1 Searing Blood, +1
Banishing Light, +1 Pillar of Light, +1 Chained to the Rocks


Sorry for the long post, Just would like some confirmation or different ideas for key matchups.

Thanks for any/all help!

[BrainsickHater]

Young Pyromancer > Satyr Firedancer against BW Control

[magicdownunder]

Young Pyromancer > Satyr Firedancer against BW Control

Agreed

[JulianFrank]

Hey everyone, found this website when I stumbled upon MrMagicdownunder on youtube/MTGO rankings.
So I went to FNM with this
Creatures (11)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands (24)
12 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
Spells (23)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Mizzium Mortars

Sideboard
3 Assemble the Legion
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Wear//Tear

I lost against Rabblered with sideboard eidolon, B/W devotion and U/W control. Went 2-3
Considering: Stoke the flames/Searing Blood/Satyr Firedancer/Eidolon/Young Pyromancer./Anger of the gods
What to choose???? Thanks in advance.

Maybe this was posted before but here is the Official Decklist of the WMCQ2014 Tokyo 1st place R/W BURN By Aryabhima A Rahman
http://www.happymtg.com/decks/view/D068374

and Finals video against Junds PW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_1Eb0XeBSg

I apologize if it's a double post.

Thank you, and you can find me playing MTGO under username JulianFrank.

EDIT: Yeah it's doublepost, but I'll leave it there in case anyone missed it

[LaZerBurn]

Vs U and GW you're light on Burn when you bring in Dancer IMHO.

[RedNihilist]

Honest question from a non-burn player: in a meta where Gx / monsters builds are hated out by an overabundance of UW Control, is YP$ still worth it?

[Jamie]

If you are guaranteed to play against only UW control in an event and no other deck, Yeah replace YP with Eidolon.

YP isn't bad. Echoing the idea lots of people in this thread have said in the past, "Jace Architect of Thought doesn't make YP$ bad, YP$ makes Jace into a useless planeswalker"

[RedNihilist]

I'm not just talking about YP$ vs Jace, it's just that (maybe I'm wrong, mind you) I feel that my national meta* will go towards UW vs Jund Planeswalkers, with Burn, BW, GW and MonoU being the other contenders in this order, so maybe it can be a good time to move on and try to next level things a bit.

*: I'll be attending a WCMQ on Sunday, that's why I'm asking myself questions.

[BrainsickHater]

I think if your meta is primarily UW, Burn, and BW, Eidolon is actually a fine maindeck choice. You can then jam your SB with GW and MonoU hate (read Firedancer), since apparently RabbleRed is not in your meta.

EDIT: But at an open meta like a WMCQ I would play more of a stock list and maindeck YP$

[RedNihilist]

Well, at the moment I'm not even playing Burn, I'm just brainstorming

[Purp]

Big fan of Juza's list he posted today, although I am not sure of his choice to bring in Assemble vs UW.

Everyone loves 24 lands now a days.

[BlakLanner]

I have been on the 24 land, no Jet version for a while. I have been enjoying it. I agree with not bringing in Assemble vs UW. It will either get Sphered or Planar Cleansed depending on the build. I am not sure if we need the full rack of Chains main deck but that is something that can be tested. I wonder if I can merge that with the Raise the Alarm tech that MDU has been advocating and I happen to really like as well.

[LP, of the Fires]

Having played against burn more from the uw side, I think the yp/jace thing is wrong since most of the time, you SHOULD be plusing Jace. In cleansing control, have is likely the best card since it byes the most time just sitting in play.

[BrainsickHater]

I also think it's wrong, as the UW player pluses and invalidates your YP$, netting a card, and then they don't have to minus (at which point they're ahead on cards) until they can deal with the YP$ with a different card. YP$ keeps them from drawing cards now, but doesn't actually kill them before they get to use/draw cards later when a Jace is in play.

[les.classic]

Young Pyromancer > Satyr Firedancer against BW Control

I was thinking it would give me more outs to kill Blood Baron, is it possible that I should keep yp and sf in that matchup?

[Aodh]

I don't play as UW control often, but from burn's side I would much rather attack for 1 damage and them draw one card than attack for 2 damage and them draw 3 cards. Divination + gain 2 life is better than Nyx-Fleece Ram, IMO.

[Purp]

Honestly Eidolon is your best answer against UW.

[LP, of the Fires]

The reason plusing jace is good is because eventually it threatens ultimate at which point the burn player has to start throwing cards/damage at it. Instead of digging for dissolves and divinations, your jace straight up turns into dissolves/divs when your opponent is forced to stoke it so that you don't ult.

As a red aggro player, my record against control is phenomenal and most of my control opponents say it's because I tend to either immediately kill jace or immediately kill them after playing jace instead of trying to ignore it and getting there when I'm not nearly equipped enough to do so.

[HK1997]

I don't play as UW control often, but from burn's side I would much rather attack for 1 damage and them draw one card than attack for 2 damage and them draw 3 cards. Divination + gain 2 life is better than Nyx-Fleece Ram, IMO.

Which is why, ironically, you've drawn the wrong conclusion. If you get to attack for 2, his Jace is dead and that's it. He needs to cast a new one or sweep the board to gain the advantage again. This allows you to sit on your mana and blast it all out when he taps out for anything while swinging for the next turns.
If he does +1 tho, he not only gains two life, assuming you'd want to make a token and swing next turn, he also can still -2 him anytime he feels he is short on cards, while not running the risk of loosing him
to a shock or mutavault. If he does choose to minus him later, removing him will usually require an additional card from our hand, and voila. He not only gained life by preventing damage the last turns, he gains +3 cards advantage on us, without ever needing to tap out. Be happy when he taps out and goes -2. Kill it or punish him by resolving some big spells like BC or Chandra

[Aodh]

If you have YP$ out, they have to +1; if you have Eidolon out, they have a choice. Remember that planeswalkers are good because they are flexible.

Jace +1 makes all of our dudes into 1-power creatures, so there's no difference between AZ, YP$, EotGR when facing a Jace +1. The difference is that YP$ forces their decision.

[Yogi]

Hello all,

on Sunday I'm going to play my burn at WMCQ.
Here is my build:

Lands (23)
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
8 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Mutavault

Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Spells
3 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
3 Shock
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood

What Would You change in the maindeck and how would You prepare sideboard, knowing that meta is consistent mostly from: Jund Walkers, UW Control, Mono B, BG and BW & Ensoul Artifact decks?
Thank You in advance for any advice.