[Primer] Boros Burn

[magicdownunder]

I can't wait until I can test Hushwing Gryff myself... I personally don't believe it needs other creatures too be good since imo stopping triggers from Gary is good enough for the Bx Devo MU, when you factor in how good it "seems" vs Blue and Green its almost an auto-include.

[Khaospawn]

Do you even Hush, bro?

#Hushwing4lyfe

[Khaospawn]

My current sideboard:

[Deck]
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Banishing Light
2 Pillar of Light
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Hushwing Gryff
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
1 Assemble the Legion
[/deck]

[NotARobot]

I think I might go down to one Chandra in the board to make room for a second hushwing.

[Purp]

Robot, thought on Flamespeaker vs green? (not sure if you faced that matchup in the open)

[NotARobot]

I didn't go up against any straight green in the open, but I did board him in against the 5th place naya agro deck. Don't really have much feedback there. Game one I flooded out pretty hard. Brought in the pillar, flamespeaker, and mortars for game two. I kept a kept a decent hand, but he chained my early yp and I ran outta gas pretty quick. I did land a flamespeaker, got to attack once, but just flipped land and a mortars which was wasted. After that I drew another two or three lands in a row while he went experiment one into a 4/4 and killed me with bloodrushed trample when I had to block.

Ive been thinking about that game all the time since it happened. Really wondering if I just didn't shuffle enough, there shouldn't ever be like 4 or 5 lands in a row -_-

[Elricity]

Remember, when I say flamespeaker vs green, I mean non Carytid versions.

I eventually want to test a Gryff/speaker package against black but haven't had the chance yet. Theory being that Gryff they have to deal with which just burns up more removal.

[NotARobot]

Oh yeah for sure only bring in flame speaker if you don't see caryatids

[Purp]

It's unclear to me which might perform better:

[deck]4 Boros Charm
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
1 Stoke the Flames
4 Warleader's Helix[/deck]

[deck]4 Boros Charm
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
1 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
1 Stoke the Flames
4 Warleader's Helix[/deck]

[deck]4 Boros Charm
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
1 Stoke the Flames
4 Warleader's Helix[/deck]

The second and third save a SB space from having to use a chain. What I think I like about ONE Searing Blood, is that its a turn 2 kill a creature. Allows me to save a magmajet for later, when scrying is more crucial.

[Elricity]

It will be the end of the day before I have the first two videos uploaded of my other MBC games yesterday but here's one of the games with the all removal sideboard plan. Also, it explains how you do the old v3 stack cards by name at about the halfway point since it seems like a lot of people are moving to MTGO.

Short version is:

Display by card view
Sort by name
Display by pile view

Why they grey out sort by name in pile view, I don't know.

I have never been excited about searing blood in burn unless I'm running dancers. I think I held out the longest putting them in the deck and happily removed them the moment MBC wised up against it.

[Elricity]

Here's the other removal sideboard version I played against MBC

I'll have the speaker version that I lost finished tonight.

[Purp]

-4 Skullcrack -4 Boros Charm -1/2 shock -1/2 WLH +2 Chandra +2 Pillar +2 Blight +2 Assemble +3 Flamespeaker. Going deep. Cut 2 shock if on NVS plan, Cut 2 WLH if on Lifebane plan.

[zemanjaski]

Seems reasonable: I want to be clear, I'm not sure this is the correct approach it just makes sense to me.

[Elricity]

It is less explosive but more consistent.

I'll be using Hushwing instead of Assemble because it hits more matchups and makes duress that much worse. I don't have the luxury of tight metas.

You have to be comfortable grinding and using card advantage to make this work. I just happen to share Z's playstyle with it. After all, my history when getting back into the game at the start of Scars/Innistrad was UB Drownyard, RW Slayer's Stronghold Sledge with Seance in sideboard (Seance wasn't great but I'm a sucker for card advantage), and I built burn right when Theros came out specifically with this gameplan in mind hence why I started off maindecking reckoner, Chandra and Pyromancer's Gauntlet (and no, it wasn't good either). Point being, there's a reason my matches are on average 10 minutes longer than most other people's so take everything I say with that in mind.

[Purp]

Hushwing over Assemble sounds promising.

[Elricity]

Ok, all the videos are up.

[deck]
Maindeck
1 Shouta List

Sideboard

3 Toil // Trouble
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Banishing Light
1 Reprisal
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Wear // Tear[/deck]

I considered Boros Reckoner a bit of a crutch so I pulled it out. I would run it in a meta where I expect hexproof. T/T is because I still am weak at the UW matchup but this will be coming out once I have access to more powerful cards like Pillar and Hushwing in M15.

Match 1 vs MBC using Skullcrack. Board plan was -4 shock, -1 mortar, -4 charm, +3 speaker, +2 Chandra, 1 Reprisal, 1 Assemble, 2 Banish. Both game 1 and 2, I wasted too many spells, he played too many threats, and I died.

Match 2 vs MBC without
Skullcrack. Board plan is -4 charm and skullcrack, +2 mortar, +2 chandra, +2 banish, 1 reprisal, 1 assemble. He gained 8 life unopposed and still lost.

Match 3 vs MBC. Same plan. He boarded in Staff of Death Magus, gassed himself out with packrat, and got stampeded when I cleared his board.

Match 4 vs Gb Devotion. I boarded poorly for this because I didn't realize he was on Poly and forgot I'd seen a burning tree. Should have used the same sideboard as match 2 and 3. He gained 8 life with a disciple when I tapped out with skullcrack in hand. Didn't matter as he strangely didn't swing his creatures in and let me mortars his board and I chewed through his life total for a couple turns.

[dpaine88]

@MDU - from your post 2 pages ago..

Do you really consider yourself having a YOLO style? I would say you play pretty conservative and grindy in my opinion and watching many other people play burn. I've probably watched close to 15 of your videos.

I would hardly say it is a big shift from how Zem plays at all.

[Purp]

Not sure pillar/hushwing will help your UW matchup.

[Whole]

[deck]Sideboard
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Hushwing Gryff
4 Toil//Trouble
1 Banishing Light (1 main)
3 Mizzium Mortars (1 Stoke main)
1 Chained to the Rocks (3 main)
2 Prophetic Flamespeaker
1 Pillar of Light[/deck]

When going against B/W midrange lists (like this one), how aggressively should I board? I was testing it by going a "control route", but my control route has a pretty hard time dealing with Elspeth and Obzedat. Bringing in all the Mortars and Banishing Lights (and the Chained?) from the board is probably correct because I need to deal with Baron and Demon. Chandra is probably still good enough because of LBZ. Hushwing is probably also good because it helps vs Obzedat and late Sin Collectors. Also, only Demon can block it. But with my sideboard, that means I'm bringing in 9 cards.
n
So what do I take out? In my testing I took out Boros Charms and some number of Shocks and Helixes (4 Charms, 3 Shocks, 2 Helix) but it just slowed my deck down way too much. I'm pretty lost. Next time, I'll try possibly bringing in Toil // Trouble and not bringing in Chandra & take out Young Pyro and going full out #yolo aggro mode. But if anyone has any better ideas or experience with the MU, I would greatly appreciate them.

[Rhyno]

I feel like a lot of you guys are going all-in on the control approach in a ton of matchups. Why not just adjust the main-deck to reflect that?

[Elricity]

Dpaine,

He tends to push his board states right to the edge where he kills his opponent right before his opponent kills him. Compare the board states when he ends games versus when mine end for example.

The difference between him and the "pros" who talk about the deck is he is clearly able to intuit exactly when to go all in as opposed to trying to go all in right from the start and pulling a Brad Nelson rage fest when it doesn't work out for him. Which is a huge difference.

Purp,



What I mean is that the cards are powerful enough in all the other matchups that it is worth dropping T/T as a crutch.

Now, I need you to step outside and talk to the hobo waiting for you so he can deliver the dopeslap that I promised him an ounce of crack for. Also, he needs a place to stay so I told him he
could sleep on your couch.

Whole,

You can't outcontrol a deck like that because their card advantage is vastly superior to yours. Namely, whip, Ghost dad, BBV, sin collector, connections (they have enough life gain to support it). However, they sorcery speed durdle a lot more than MBC so flamespeaker can put them in a bad position. You want them dead or near dead by the time they're ready to start swinging with their 5 drops so spells like Helix are garbage here because they destroy nothing important and gaining 4 life doesn't prevent you from losing so it's an overcosted boros charm. Drop your curve with better removal and hushwing blanking his cards even for a turn should be quite important.

That said, T/T is the worst thing you can do here because their discard makes the curve so low that a sorcery speed deal 3 is awful.

Watch MDU's Junk videos. You notice he only goes T/T if
he is sure his opponent isn't on discard but he's still pointing almost everything to the face.

Rhyno,

Try to create a maindeck that controls all the tier 1 decks and you'll answer your own question.

[zemanjaski]

How'd ya beat Staff of the Death Magus? I thought it was unbeatable.

[Elricity]

How'd ya beat Staff of the Death Magus? I thought it was unbeatable.

[zemanjaski]

I like the part where he spent three mana to discard a card.

[dauntless268]

@ Whole
You need to stay aggressive. This MU is very different than MBC. I have Ash Zealots in my SB mainly vs. control, I bring them in here as well.

@ Zem
I absolutely like your route vs. MBC, with all the removal we're now having at our disposal plus Chandra plus Assemble...

@ MDU
How good is Hushwing really? It seems like an underpowered creature with a conditional ability. Would you really sit back on 3 Mana waiting for opp to play Gary, MoW or Disciple? I'm just theorycrafting as you know...

[Elricity]

I was really, really surprised he went on the pack rat plan with staff out. Particularly at the end where he discarded a 2/3 flier to make a 2/2.

Dauntless,

Of the devotion decks, it's least powerful against black but even there, it's an instant speed blightning. Whether that's valuable to you depends on how you approach the matchup. I can see some playstyles where that's not that strong. I haven't tested BW to see how it fares there.

Against blue or green devotion, which typically have weak removal, the card reads "Your opponent must play pauper against your standard deck".

And of course it's shit everywhere else.

Almost your whole deck has flash. Assuming you have other things to do, why would you cast it in advance?

[LP, of the Fires]

Try this, play mono-blue against a burn player, then tap 4 mana to make a 2/1 pro red creature and try to win the game from there.

[Elricity]

Don't forget the Grizzly bears with the sometimes awkward mana cost.

[dauntless268]

Can you explain the comparison with blighting, Elricity?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Nobody is on the Phyrexian Revoker plan like blacklanner? I thought his 75 was very well thought out, but haven't had a chance to test it.

[BrainsickHater]

Revoker's value seems dependent on how grindy you want to be. The grinder you become, the less it's worth a card.

[LP, of the Fires]

Revoker is probably good, but I personally wouldn't really want it in my burn deck.

[Elricity]

Can you explain the comparison with blighting, Elricity?

1) Like skullcrack, it does damage to your opponent but unlike skullcrack, it fully counters half of a card instead of countering somewhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of a card. Since it only sometimes survives an untap, it's on average sometimes between 2-4 damage. It's terrible at interacting with the board so all it's good for is hitting your opponent for damage. This means that if you're badly behind and your opponent doesn't need to cast anything else, it's as bad as holding blightning in your hand.

2) It forces your opponent to discard a card by making him use a kill spell on it. Or it forces him not to play certain cards which is the exact same as making him discard it.

Ergo, [
mana]3[/mana]; deal damage to your opponent, your opponent loses two cards. 1 from the countering a trigger, 1 from making him kill it.

It's not a perfect comparison and if I had more time, I'd refine it. But it's pretty close.

And of course the biggest problem is lifebane zombie because countering it's ability probably isn't worth anything close to a card and on the draw, he has a moderate chance of stripping it.

[LP, of the Fires]

This is the worst card comparison I've ever seen that wasn't made by me.

[Elricity]

It's how my mind works.

In X matchup:
* How many cards did I spend
* How many cards does my opponent lose because of this card
* On average, how much does this change life totals

After that, certain cards start looking quite similar in roles and are helpful for evaluating it correctly.

In this case:

Would you play an instant speed Blightning against MBC if you could? If so, how does it change how you play the rest of the matchup?

[zemanjaski]

That's how I evaluate cards too.

[LP, of the Fires]

I look at how cards fit into my nutdraw, and how time sensitive they are, basically.

[magicdownunder]

@MDU - from your post 2 pages ago..

Do you really consider yourself having a YOLO style? I would say you play pretty conservative and grindy in my opinion and watching many other people play burn. I've probably watched close to 15 of your videos.

I would hardly say it is a big shift from how Zem plays at all.

Read Elricity post, it was perfect

I play grindy as well in every MU except for Control, G/x/x and B/x/x

You'll notice that I tend too throw the book away if I'm on
the play vs G/x/x and B/x/x which I can understand why people find it uncomfortable - but I dislike playing the attrition war vs decks which WILL have better topdecks and ca then me (yeah people keep connection and gary online, while Gxx have walkers and cousers).

@ MDU: How good is Hushwing really? It seems like an underpowered creature with a conditional ability. Would you really sit back on 3 Mana waiting for opp to play Gary, MoW or Disciple? I'm just theorycrafting as you know...

I'm the same boat as you, its just pure theorycrafting until I can grab some product - I think its good because its another flier with pesto haste (flying is still very powerful in many MU) with a great conditional ability, I would just slam it out vs clear skies in the blue and green MUs because they can't really deal with it - while vs
Bx Devo, I'll go with the waiting game.

[dpaine88]

I def understand what you mean MDU and Elricity.

I am going to have to watch your videos Eltricity because my games end exactly how MDU's end. Very close weather I won or lost. Down to the wire. Sometimes I am over aggressive..

[BlakLanner]

Nobody is on the Phyrexian Revoker plan like blacklanner? I thought his 75 was very well thought out, but haven't had a chance to test it.

I appreciate the praise. I am probably more on the aggressive side compared to some of the other players on this forum. I did remain on a modified Eidolon version until M15 and Stoke forced me to change to Pyromancer. Revoker, for me, is simplay a "you have to deal with this before you can enact your game plan" card. It fits my play style a bit more than the grindier cards that tat the other people play.