[Primer] RDW

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:37 pm

3-1 with LP's list

its pretty good

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:35 pm

The red deck wins list or the goblins deck?

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:37 pm

Also, Todd Anderson list to boss sligh getting his polukranos harnessed, then mad capped

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:50 pm

Couldn't have happened to a better guy.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:20 pm

The red deck wins list or the goblins deck?

The 'saito' list

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:47 am

[deck]
Creatures (36)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Firefist Striker
3 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells (4)
4 Boros Charm

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mana Confluence
8 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Forge Devil
2 Wear / Tear
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Iroas, God of Victory
[/deck]

Blew up my last post concerning my decklist. That feeling when you hit edit to quote your deck so you don't have to type it all out again, then get called away right as you're about to copy it and come back forgetting that you are still on the post you were trying to copy and you submit the changes...

Anyway, same list except for two sideboard cards. Took out Glare of Heresy and Hall of Triumph for Iroas, God of Victory
and Legion's Initiative. My meta is very midrange heavy so Iroas makes sense here. I liked MDU's suggestion of Legion's Initiative. Seems more flexible than Hall of Triumph.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:36 pm

Does Iroas ever get active in your list?

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:42 pm

I don't know. I have yet to play the list since M15 has only been legal for a couple of days and I had to order my Rabblemasters and Forges. It was between him and Purphoros and I chose Iroas because he's better earlier in the game and I expect Circle of Flame to catch on as hot tech against these kinds of decks (does work against this deck, white weenie, and mono black aggro).

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:09 pm

Oh yeah sorry I keep forgetting you're playing on MTGO ^^

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:10 pm

Well it's not so much that as the set has been legal for one weekend and I have yet to play since the prerelease. I also had to order some of the M15 cards to complete the deck. But yes, I do get to test a lot more on MTGO and I plan on doing so.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:48 pm

Well it's not so much that as the set has been legal for one weekend and I have yet to play since the prerelease. I also had to order some of the M15 cards to complete the deck.

That's what I meant

I've been able to playtest with them for over a week but I forgot it takes a week longer for them to arrive on MTGO

locozildjiangodx · Postby **locozildjiangodx** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:07 pm

Maybe you all can help me with this: I started only a couple of months ago, so I dont have the backlog on some of the more expensive cards preferred for the deck, namely the lands. Since many of them are going out of style in a couple months, and I will be traveling for work a good bit in the next couple months I dont want to invest in the rotating lands. That being said, what lands would you all recommend for a boros burn deck not using rotating cards for most effective play right now?

I'm thinking: 4 battlefield forge, 2 mana confluence, 4 temple of triumph, 2 off color White temples, 8 mountain, 3 plains.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:11 pm

Maybe you all can help me with this: I started only a couple of months ago, so I dont have the backlog on some of the more expensive cards preferred for the deck, namely the lands. Since many of them are going out of style in a couple months, and I will be traveling for work a good bit in the next couple months I dont want to invest in the rotating lands. That being said, what lands would you all recommend for a boros burn deck not using rotating cards for most effective play right now?

I'm thinking: 4 battlefield forge, 2 mana confluence, 4 temple of triumph, 2 off color White temples, 8 mountain, 3 plains.

Granted this should probably be in the burn thread, but you can't play the deck without Sacred Foundry or Mutavault.

locozildjiangodx · Postby **locozildjiangodx** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:57 pm

Crap i just noticed i posted in the wrong thread, my bad. Definitely can't play the deck competitively, that's for sure. Guess ill have to find something else till rotation or continually get beat. Thanks.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:17 pm

Play Boss Sligh, its inexpensive and has game vs all the decks on the right weekend.

locozildjiangodx · Postby **locozildjiangodx** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:11 pm

Yeah I have looked into it before. Unfortunately I tried to go cheap Boros charm instead of Boss early on, and due to my work schedule and how close rotation is I dont think I'll even invest the $25 it will take to make the Slih deck. Maybe I'll get persuaded by a friend, but I think i'll have to find something else to play at FNM loosely based on cards I have....or just get wrecked playing the cheap boros I have.

Johnnyboy20 · Postby **Johnnyboy20** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:51 am

Did some testing with Val's list tonight on Cockatrice, and while it may not be the most ideal testing ground, I can say that the list is very good. Goblin Rabblemaster in particular is the real deal; he just does so much work and was always a must-kill threat from the opponent's side of the table. Granted, most of my matches were against Gx decks or Mono-Blue, but he seemed to excel in those matchups. Also, the Chains in the SB work wonders, and are really surprising to opponents who assume you are just going to try to race them to death in post-board games. Caught a few players saying they didn't expect the Chains at all

. Definitely a deck I'm going to pick up and start bringing to my LGS, will post here with further updates once I test some more.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:32 pm

Excellent! My meta is very green so I built the 75 with that in mind. Who knew one mana Terminate was good, eh?

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:49 pm

Who knew one mana Terminate was good, eh?

Oh you ^^

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:33 pm

I'm beginning to wonder if the Iroas shouldn't just be Frontline Medic. The latter is more flexible since he can come in against control to shut down Revelation. In fact that would be a nice clean swap postboard for control if I had two of them in the board. -3 Shortcutter, -3 Frenzied Goblin, -1 Legion Loyalist, +4 Revoker, +1 Wear / Tear, +2 Frontline Medic.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:38 pm

[deck]
Creatures (36)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Firefist Striker
3 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells (4)
4 Boros Charm

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mana Confluence
8 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Forge Devil
2 Wear / Tear
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Frontline Medic
1 Mutavault
[/deck]

That's MUCH better.

PirateKingAtomsk · Postby **PirateKingAtomsk** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:21 pm

curios what purpose forge devil serves beside bringing it in against small agro, but with shortcutters and frenzied it seems a bit niche. if that's what its for scouring sands or electricery could be better as a wipe instead of a single target kill.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:35 pm

Neither of those is a 1/1 creature which means they can't damage players or trigger foundry denizen. Also, once the effect has gone off your opponent has to deal with a creature on the battlefield where they do not have to deal with a spell in your graveyard. It's a huge difference.

Think Snapcaster Mage

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:31 pm

curios what purpose forge devil serves beside bringing it in against small agro, but with shortcutters and frenzied it seems a bit niche. if that's what its for scouring sands or electricery could be better as a wipe instead of a single target kill.

What Elricity said. It's a literal 2-for-1 in every case vs small aggro decks. It's particularly brutal against mono black aggro and mono red aggro because of how many one-toughness creatures they run. White decks can mitigate the effectiveness depending on how many token generators they're running, but it's still really strong against them.

Honestly the only other card I would consider in Forge Devil's place would be Circle of Flame, but it can be played
around a bit more with enchantment removal, anthems, and mid-combat pump, and it does nothing to help me attack early in the game which is exactly what this deck wants to do. My opponent might not be able to attack through my Circle of Flame, but I can't exactly attack through his guys either if I don't have Loyalists (I'm probably siding out Frenzied Goblin and Goblin Shortcutter in aggro mirrors).

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:35 pm

The only issue with forge devil against white is if they brave while the creature is on the stack, you'll be forced to ping one of your own creatures once the creature results and the ETB goes on the stack because none of their creatures are legal targets and the devil's trigger is mandatory. Be careful if they have open mana and all your creatures are 1 toughness. Although I guess worst case, it's still just a 1 for 1 because the devil would just kill itself.

So uh, nevermind then.

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:36 pm

The only issue with forge devil against white is if they brave while the creature is on the stack, you'll be forced to ping one of your own creatures once the creature results and the ETB goes on the stack because none of their creatures are legal targets and the devil's trigger is mandatory. Be careful if they have open mana and all your creatures are 1 toughness. Although I guess worst case, it's still just a 1 for 1 because the devil would just kill itself.

Yes, and in fact I would invite that to occur because it means I won't be attacking into a Brave the Elements which is disastrous for this deck and one of the reasons I wanted Iroas or Frontline Medic for postboard games.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:46 pm

I would love for white weenie to blow a Brave to save a single 1 toughness creature lol

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:19 pm

Yeah, I realized that after I got done typing it out.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:23 am

Not sure if RDW is just a worse boss sligh.

Obv the decks play out differently, but slighs matchup spread just feels SO much better.

The one thing RDW has going for it is it's a bit better vs. other aggro decks specifically things like GW variants(the list that finished second at the open was surprisingly very good imo).

With boss sligh, I'm gladly sitting across Black, Blue, and Control which are the 3 best decks in the format and with the low land count, you actually have a reasonable chance against burn whereas with RDW, I feel super screwed if my opponent knows to kill my creatures before combat(maaka) and/or casts some combinations of YP and warleaders helix.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:47 pm

RDW lacks a real game finisher like we used to have with Hellrider, that's the main issue I think

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:55 pm

Please don't mention Hellrider, I still miss the guy...

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:17 pm

There's a real argument for both decks. Sligh mulls a lot and is a bit worse in aggro mirrors. RDW has a slightly less consistent goldfish. What I like about Boros is that I get a real sideboard that can catch opponents off guard.

I just realized yesterday that Wear / Tear should be Keening Apparition. I'm actually finding room for 1-2 main.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:33 pm

What I like about your list, Vald is Legion Loyalist + Frontline Medic

living the dream...

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:19 pm

Yeah Medic is basically Loyalist 5-6 except a bit worse due to lack of haste. It's resistant to Golgari Charm and Drown in Sorrow though which is nice.

Tyrael · Postby **Tyrael** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:03 pm

Well I like how they syngergise so well with each other, making blocking nearly undoable for your opponents whether you have pump spells or not

You can just keep turning your guys sideways and not care at all about blocks

RaidaTheBlade · Postby **RaidaTheBlade** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:45 am

Current build of Sligh:

[deck]
Creatures (27)
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Satyr Hoplite
3 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Ash Zealot
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Lands (19)
19 Mountain

Spells (14)
4 Madcap Skills
4 Thunderous Might
3 Titan's Strength
3 Hammerhand

Sideboard (15)
4 Harness by Force
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
3 Searing Blood
4 Skullcrack
1 Mountain
[/deck]

Just went 5-0 at fnm, which doesn't mean much, but deck has legs.

Changes I'm thinking of:
-Dropping a Hoplite for another Denizen, he was golden
-I think I want the 4th titans, not sure whether to drop a hammerhand or a thunderous might. Might stay at 3.
-Removing Searing blood from side, replace it with something better for the aggro mirror(ish)
-Maybe go down a harness in the side

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:00 am

You definitely want four Denizen. The synergy with Akroan Crusader and BTE makes it too powerful to run less than the full amount.

Four Harness is waaaaaaaaaaay too many. It's not a card you want to see in your opener.

RaidaTheBlade · Postby **RaidaTheBlade** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:32 am

So if I go down to 3 harness, and drop the searing bloods, that's 4 slots to work with. I still want 3 harness, because my lgs is green and midrange heavy.

I'm thinking maybe 2 Seismic Stomp for against aggro, since that enables a blowout swing. I got into a situation tonight in the mirror where we just sat there for turn after turn, because we were stalemated.

The other 2 slots I'd like to maybe some sort of removal. I like searing blood, but the 2 damage felt awkward a few times. I may still keep it since it kills 2 bird with one stone so to speak, but maybe 2 stoke the flames for reach instead? Any ideas for a card that's be good vs the aggro mirror and maybe burn.

Edit: Maybe 2 frenzied goblins? Falter effects are good, and would give me more cheap creatures to bring in when I need to go wide, like vs burn or black devo

Valdarith · Postby **Valdarith** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:09 am

I'm thinking maybe 2 Seismic Stomp for against aggro, since that enables a blowout swing. I got into a situation tonight in the mirror where we just sat there for turn after turn, because we were stalemated.

That's because you're not running Legion Loyalist like you should.

RaidaTheBlade · Postby **RaidaTheBlade** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:37 pm

Fair enough.

Dies to Removal

[Primer] RDW

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