[Primer] Boros Burn

[Elricity]

You still haven't tested it, have you?

Speaker is still good against Bx and Ux. Both is probably better.

Not sure what Khaos tried but I'm flirting with 2 Hush, 1 pillar, 3 speaker. My problematic slots are how many trouble and mortars to run. I could jam a 2nd pillar but that might be too much with this plan.

[deck]sideboard[/deck]

Very rough.

[LP, of the Fires]

I love flamespeaker, but I'm starting with griff and reevaluating from there

[NotARobot]

Well I'm 7-2 at scg bmore right now, gonna draw into top 32I guess, and flamespeaker definitely handed me wins in at least 3 of my rounds, vs boss sligh, mono blue, and white weenies. It immediately shifts the momentum of the match in your direction. That said it's really a meta call... there's been a lot of agro here today, I've only played against control once, and im lucky because I feel it's this lists weakest matchup. The pillar was awesome vs the match I played against junk recursion with the 2/7 fatty that redirects all damage to it + angels, and I already commented on the hushwing.

Still, I like the list, I probably won't change it till rotation because I'm just gonna be doing fnms.

[magicdownunder]

Perhaps I was a tad harsh when I used the word "terrible" but you certainly have better options, and yes I have finally got around in tested it (only cost 12) improving the matches which burn is favorable against is not the approach I want too take but if we're both winning in a similar field consistently (you can look at my online results) then I guess we can chalk it up too play preference.

[Elricity]

I can respect that.

I tease MDU but I understand that he and I are on opposite ends of the offense/defense spectrum. Neither is wrong.

[zemanjaski]

Ummm, tier 1 is UWx Control, MBC, Mono U and Burn. Flamespeaker is fine in that meta and excellent against lower tier decks that you WILL face at a larger event. Sure, it's bad if your approach is to YOLO everyone, but that not the cards fault, it's just not going to synergise with your strategy very well. If you like playing incremental grindy games, you'll like Flamespeaker.

[magicdownunder]

Ummm, tier 1 is UWx Control, MBC, Mono U and Burn. Flamespeaker is fine in that meta and excellent against lower tier decks that you WILL face at a larger event. Sure, it's bad if your approach is to YOLO everyone, but that not the cards fault, it's just not going to synergise with your strategy very well. If you like playing incremental grindy games, you'll like Flamespeaker.

Can't argue with that, its also the reason why I'm overly bias with Stoke the Flames.

I disagree with Control and MBC but I guess if you have a way too grind out all the removals and jaces before hand (with maybe YP$ and Phoenixes) then its great, though alone it doesn't stand very well against them (this is reflected in the overall burn
finishes online as well, since the card is almost non-existent with decks which finish).

[zemanjaski]

Yeah but Burn lists online also play maindeck Eidolon; they're not playing the deck to grind.

[magicdownunder]

Only some of them, the majority are on the YP$ plan now (times have changed) (source: its a 47/53 Revel/YP$ with overall finishes)

I think we have the all big sites, top8 finishes and twitch players too thank for that

[NotARobot]

Well the round 10 guy refused to split so I'm 8-2 for the day. Lis round 2 to esper, mulled to 5 in 2 out of three games and got stuck on lands, then in round 8 vs gr bloodrush monsters I flooded out, drawing 6 to 8 lands in both games. Definitely going back to 4 helix-I was hoping for sweet yp plays with tokens convoking but it just never happened.. Still like the 5 4 damage spells though, gonna keep I've over mortars.

[NotARobot]

Wow I can't type on my phone

[zemanjaski]

Yeah the 1 Stoke seems reasonable. Well done Robot, what's the event?

[NotARobot]

SCG Baltimore open. I only found out about it last night and figured I had to give it a shot

[zemanjaski]

Nice, 8-2 is top 16 or top 32?

[zemanjaski]

Only some of them, the majority are on the YP$ plan now (times have changed) (source: its a 47/53 Revel/YP$ with overall finishes)

I think we have the all big sites, top8 finishes and twitch players too thank for that

Ah sweet, this makes me happy.

[NotARobot]

I'm waiting for results but I think I missed top 16 by 3 or 4 places

[zemanjaski]

That's a bit rough (mostly for prizes) but nevertheless, well done. I'm sure myself and others would appreciate notes when you have a chance, upcoming WMCQs and all that jazz.

[NotARobot]

Hey what do you know, #13! Same prize for 9-33 though... woo!

[Elricity]

Ummm, tier 1 is UWx Control, MBC, Mono U and Burn. Flamespeaker is fine in that meta and excellent against lower tier decks that you WILL face at a larger event. Sure, it's bad if your approach is to YOLO everyone, but that not the cards fault, it's just not going to synergise with your strategy very well. If you like playing incremental grindy games, you'll like Flamespeaker.

The only one of the four it seems like I have a hard time executing on is Jace.dek. It's also the deck I have the least practice though.

[Khaospawn]

Now that I'm at an actual computer, this is what my sideboard was (for those that were wondering):

[deck]
Sideboard 15
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Banishing Light
2 Pillar of Light
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Hushwing Gryff
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker[/deck]

And then it was the Shouta list for the main but I played a singleton Stoke in the main (replacing the Mortars).

As for predicting the metagame and #YOLOing, what can I say? The Shouta list looked streamlined and plays YP$. It's not like any of this is new to me. Plus, playing with new cards is always fun.

[dpaine88]

Haha I looked at the 13th place R/W burn and said to myself I'll bet my house thats someone from DTR. Zem's exact manabase and who else runs 4 chains =P

[LP, of the Fires]

Ummm, tier 1 is UWx Control, MBC, Mono U and Burn. Flamespeaker is fine in that meta and excellent against lower tier decks that you WILL face at a larger event. Sure, it's bad if your approach is to YOLO everyone, but that not the cards fault, it's just not going to synergise with your strategy very well. If you like playing incremental grindy games, you'll like Flamespeaker.

The only one of the four it seems like I have a hard time executing on is Jace.dek. It's also the deck I have the least practice though.

Learn how to actively do nothing, and the matchup gets
much easier.

[zemanjaski]

Speaking of manabases, how did you find it robot? I like 2 painlands, 2 off colour scrylands, but I can appreciate wanting more untapped white; going from 4 (a few months back) to 6 has already been HUGE.

[zemanjaski]

If you think of Boros Charm and Skullcrack as counterspells, Magma Jet as Serum Visions you'll approach the matchup correctly. You're in a control mirror, you want to resolve and protect a threat and exploit your mana efficiency advantage. Card advantage is paramount.

[Khaospawn]

FWIW, I used 4 painlands last night over the 2/1/1 with the temples. I liked it a lot.

[Elricity]

If you think of Boros Charm and Skullcrack as counterspells, Magma Jet as Serum Visions you'll approach the matchup correctly. You're in a control mirror, you want to resolve and protect a threat and exploit your mana efficiency advantage. Card advantage is paramount.

Ok, so I just need to practice more. Things like Boros charm + Phoenix to remove jace is my main plan.

[NotARobot]

The manabase was solid, as it has been the whole time. The only problem I really recall having (besides severe flood / screw in my 2 lost rounds) was not being able to find a mountain for chains, despite having all the red and white mana I needed. It felt good, I dont see a real need to change it.

[zemanjaski]

I think vs MBC after board, I want 2 assemble, 2 banishing light, 2 Chandra, 2 pillar of light; with that in mind I think i would actually cut 4 Boros charm and 4 Skullcrack...my worry isn't them gaining life; I just want to draw cards and answer their threats. Being able to deploy cards to the board helps to fight their discard strategy; once any ca engine gets online you're often going to get ahead quite quickly.

[BrainsickHater]

You would leave in Shock, even though it has few good targets?

[LP, of the Fires]

Shocks not terrible. It can interact which is relevant. Ain't nobody trying to get killed by lifebane zombie.

[zemanjaski]

Pack Rat and Mutavault are good targets; also cycles with Phoenix; I think that's better in the all out control approach.

[Kilo]

I'm somewhat new to Burn and I've been putting up pretty bad numbers with it lately going 2-2 or worse and thought I'd pop in for a couple questions. First off I'm running basically the Shouta list, I like the control style more so it suits me decently. Questions, Control; I understand that I basically just try to get a threat out and then dork away, is it worth killing your own phoenix if it gets sphere'd? That's something I usually do if I have something like a shock/magma jet in my hand. MonoU seems to be bad for me but I haven't got to play it since I changed my approach to the matchup so I think that may already be fixed. MonoB honestly I don't run Assemble or Gryff(yet though I do plan to run two in the side) but I think thats almost a free win, probably me running good when I play it and people not knowing how to play the deck that well I would guess. Monsters would be my other problem match but I think it's
just because it kind of revolves around drawing the right cards at the right time, or at least that's how it feels to me. I'm near the Kansas City area so any tips I could get before the open are more than welcome, don't want to totally embarrass myself or other burn players

[zemanjaski]

There aren't any questions with answers in that post.

[Elricity]

is it worth killing your own phoenix if it gets sphere'd? That's something I usually do if I have something like a shock/magma jet in my hand.

Depends if you have other threats, other burn to quickly recur it, etc. Early game, yes, it's probably best to counterspell dsphere since the first burn spell that connects means it was a straight 1-1 when phoenix goes back to hand. Late game, it's a math equation.

[Elricity]

If you think of Boros Charm and Skullcrack as counterspells, Magma Jet as Serum Visions you'll approach the matchup correctly. You're in a control mirror, you want to resolve and protect a threat and exploit your mana efficiency advantage. Card advantage is paramount.

Ok, so I just need to practice more. Things like Boros charm + Phoenix to remove jace is my main plan.

Got to solitaire against myself and was surprised the times I was actually able to make it work but I was playtesting a deck that didn't have last breath so..yeah.

It is kind of nice to have an
out against fiendslayers if some loon is still on that plan.

Need to see if I can test against one of the better local UW players.

[LaZerBurn]

Hey what do you know, #13! Same prize for 9-33 though... woo!

Excellent result! Well done

[magicdownunder]

@Kilo: I recommend watching videos and reading articles or just playing more games.

DtR Active recorders:

MDU: Link <--- ranked in the top25 for the online player of the year race, with a rating between 1800-1900 (though rating are gone now... ****ing v4.... grumble....grumble...)
Elricity: Link <--- playing Shouta's list

[zemanjaski]

One of my mates borrowing my deck just won an ~80 person GPT. Three burn decks in the top eight, approx. six in the field.

[Pedros]

I think vs MBC after board, I want 2 assemble, 2 banishing light, 2 Chandra, 2 pillar of light; with that in mind I think i would actually cut 4 Boros charm and 4 Skullcrack...my worry isn't them gaining life; I just want to draw cards and answer their threats. Being able to deploy cards to the board helps to fight their discard strategy; once any ca engine gets online you're often going to get ahead quite quickly.

This is a first time I heard about this kind of sideboard plan vs black. It would also kill the concept of Hush! Vs them.
What is your position on Hush!?

[zemanjaski]

Hushwing is much better if you want a proactive strategy post board. Obviously not good if you want to play a control mirror