Red Deck Wins

[magicdownunder]

B-B-but LP said (I'm fairly sure LP played the deck):

Spellbomb does several things:

It replaces dead cards while still advancing your gameplan

It's a headache for twin

Kills etched champion and pro red guys like burenten forge tender and kor firewalker

It's a bomb.

Searing Blaze vs. searing blood is per pref. I literally didn't think when I typed blaze, but I prefer blood most of the time which is probably just me being greedy but I've been very happy with it and it gets around leyline of sanctity.

Logically I can see why, but hey YOLO lets just kill them quickly and be done with it (nothing wrong with YOLO'ING)

[Khaospawn]

Yeah, well, he also openly endorsed Searing Blood over Blaze. Bad idea.

Love ya, LP.

[Khaospawn]

Y'all fuckers theorycraft all you want. No sweat off my sac if you want to be different. I'm not trying to win an argument. I only thought I'd be helpful.

[Khaospawn]

Also, #YOLO

[LP, of the Fires]

After going in the lab and doing light testing, spellbomb was still good against twin, much better then rift bolt. Problem with bolt is it's a sorcery and if you don't want to spend 3 mana, you're just raw dogging it without really getting value most of the time making it lava spike most of the time.

Bomb is netting you one less damage while costing one more mana, but is actively sitting there while your opponent stares at it.

The board plan I'm liking the most so far for twin is 2 dismember, 4 spellbomb, 1 smash to smithereens for 4 devil, 2 rift bolt, 1 molten rain. This is all flexible of course, but I think this plan gives you the most liberty to play magic without dying to froggy opponents that are aggressively trying to combo you.

One note on rift bolt that's basically a non-starter is the remand issue. In game one, yeah it's gonna happen and it's mostly terrible, but do you think twin really wants to
keep in a 2 mana soft counter against an aggressive deck full of one drops? Maybe, but I doubt it.

I also stand firmly on blood moon hosing zoo. Mogg fanatic turns from bad fog that pings into doom blade, plus you turn of tribal flames. While not overtly apart of the plan, it's very good in the control role you're trying to play in the matchup since it makes your other tools better. Goblin guides effectively grow bigger, mogg fanatic gets better, and if you have it turn 3 on the play(ideal obv) it's basically mind twist. It's not even like zoo has the luxury of fetching basics.

[Jack]

Wouldn't Seal of Fire be better than spellbomb? Yes, the "draw a card" mode isn't bad, but this is a sideboard card, so when we bring it in, we do so knowing that their deck has enough targets to justify running an overcosted 2-damage card. I never crack spellbomb to draw a card (unless I know that I'll lose if I don't) because I know that the primary mode will be more useful at some point in the game.

[LP, of the Fires]

Spellbomb lets you kill pro white creatures and things like etched champion.

[Khaospawn]

Blood Moon is fine vs Zoo if you don't die to things like turn 1 Nacatl into BTE into Lightning Mauler. Granted, that's just the nutdraw, but you have to consider that Zoo is usually going to dump its hand by the time you can play a Blood Moon. And even then, you drop the Bloon Moon. Now what? You still have to deal with the onslaught of critters coming at you.

But then again, it depends on which Zoo we're discussing, There are 3 different kinds: Big Zoo, Little Zoo, and Domain. I'm more worried about Little Zoo than other two for a couple of reasons - it stops fetching for shocks after the second land and starts nabbing basics, it's more aggressive, and it has deadlier nutdraws.


Back to the Rift Bolt vs Spellbomb in the Twin battle: it's a mistake to take out Vexing Devil for a Spellbomb. Both modes are good. I'm
telling you guys, this is not a match where you want to try to 'control' the Twin player. You will lose if you try to because they are much better equipped to deal with a longer game than we are. You need to be ripping chunks of life away from Splinter Twin and making it difficult for them to combo. You're not going to be able to do that while bottlenecking your mana on the off chance your Spellbombs may stop an Exarch or Pestermite.

[Khaospawn]

By the way, I'm not advocating mindlessly trying to race Twin either. It's just that you have to find that fine line of being really aggressive with having enough versatility to make the Twin player reconsider attempting to combo or denying them the chance. If there was a better option than Rift Bolt, I'd take it. But I don't think the Spellbomb is it.

[LP, of the Fires]

Blood Moon is fine vs Zoo if you don't die to things like turn 1 Nacatl into BTE into Lightning Mauler. Granted, that's just the nutdraw, but you have to consider that Zoo is usually going to dump its hand by the time you can play a Blood Moon. And even then, you drop the Bloon Moon. Now what? You still have to deal with the onslaught of critters coming at you.

But then again, it depends on which Zoo we're discussing, There are 3 different kinds: Big Zoo, Little Zoo, and Domain. I'm more worried about Little Zoo than other two for a couple of reasons - it stops fetching for shocks after the second land and starts nabbing basics, it's more aggressive, and it has deadlier
nutdraws.


Back to the Rift Bolt vs Spellbomb in the Twin battle: it's a mistake to take out Vexing Devil for a Spellbomb. Both modes are good. I'm telling you guys, this is not a match where you want to try to 'control' the Twin player. You will lose if you try to because they are much better equipped to deal with a longer game than we are. You need to be ripping chunks of life away from Splinter Twin and making it difficult for them to combo. You're not going to be able to do that while bottlenecking your mana on the off chance your Spellbombs may stop an Exarch or Pestermite.

I've only ever played against big zoo and domain zoo, so it appears that we where talking about COMPLETELY different matchups. I've never even seen a lightning mauler cast in modern or even in any decklist aside from one a long time ago about a dude top 8ing a PTQ with a naya-blitz port.

On the twin thing: I'm sure you believe what you're saying, but I've never found it to be true. When I play
against twin using my board plan, what happens is that all there creatures die, they're left with like, 1 exarch. We either play magic for a couple more turns and I kill them, or they put a twin on there exarch then I kill it, then them.

I don't necessarily think you're approach is wrong, just that mines better. If you're just trying to race, that's a declaration that your clock unmolested is faster then there clock unmolested which I don't think is exactly true. There's is turn 4 period, ours is turn 4 if we hit a key number of cards. On top of that if we're purely racing, they have turns one and two and three free to disrupt our clock while we have exactly 3 and 4 to kill there guy if we can't kill them. The tried and true method for beating combo isn't to just race it unless you're like, affinity. Instead, it's much better to put your clock down, then disrupt them while cheaping away before throwing the last couple bolts at the face or whatever. Not only does the disruptive route give you
more control over how your game goes and resultantly lead to better informed decision making, it just logically makes more sense to me.

Another way of thinking of it is them trading a bolt for your devil is very good for them(if they have it, they won't always), while your bomb threating there pestermite/exarch isn't just good for you, it significantly slows them down. With mogg fanatic being so good, they can't do the chip shot thing against you that they can against most decks meaning that games dragging out longer isn't a problem unless they can safe land there 1 batterskull in which case you're chances of winning go way down, but even then, we're both still boarding in answers for that, and we still have a window to kill them.

In the interest of fairness, I will try your board plan as I have faith in you as a person and this good be like the searing blood situation(it was very good, but less good then searing blaze), but I also highly recommend you try my board plan.

[Khaospawn]

I've tried both plans LP. I don't think you're wrong. Just that I'm right.

[Khaospawn]

But whatevs. You guys do what you want. I know what works for me. I've literally just spent the last couple of hours playing with and against Twin.

[LP, of the Fires]

I've tried both plans LP. I don't think you're wrong. Just that I'm right.

/stromkirk noble pic

[Khaospawn]

I tried to be my own Condescentron Prime. But you're better at it.

[Khaospawn]

LP, you're a sexy man.

[PrimalBurn]

Wow I need to learn to pay attention to more threads in this forum. I was thrilled to death when Adrain posted his original article highlighting Neal's deck. Finally finding a red deck to play in modern that's not burn for once was very exciting for me. Finding out yall are liking the deck this much pleases me greaty

[Khaospawn]

Wow I need to learn to pay attention to more threads in this forum. I was thrilled to death when Adrain posted his original article highlighting Neal's deck. Finally finding a red deck to play in modern that's not burn for once was very exciting for me. Finding out yall are liking the deck this much pleases me greaty

This deck is everything I've ever wanted in Magic.

Hey, I'm easy to please.

[PrimalBurn]

So Im just gonna dive right in. Brimstone volley with mogg fanatic, terrible right?

[Khaospawn]

I've tried both plans LP. I don't think you're wrong. Just that I'm right.

/stromkirk noble pic

[hamfactorial]

So Im just gonna dive right in. Brimstone volley with mogg fanatic, terrible right?

Not terrible, but a bit loose when you could play Flame Javelin instead for the same CMC and no requirement to sacrifice a dude.

[Valdarith]

Plus Flame Javelin doesn't trigger Eidolon.

[PrimalBurn]

Noted speaking of flame javelin I was thinking of trying a 3/1 split with rift bolt and see how that goes

[magicdownunder]

But whatevs. You guys do what you want. I know what works for me. I've literally just spent the last couple of hours playing with and against Twin.

Are you also on MTGO?

[hamfactorial]

Lolz, I jump onto MTGO to test and immediately get paired up against decks featuring maindeck Auriok Champion.

wut

[hamfactorial]

Still beat them though #yolo

[Khaospawn]

But whatevs. You guys do what you want. I know what works for me. I've literally just spent the last couple of hours playing with and against Twin.

Are you also on MTGO?

No. Paper only at the moment.

And so help me, if you launch into so spiel about how none of my playtesting doesn't mean shit because it's not on MTGO, I will swim across all 4 oceans to Australia, ride to your house on a kangaroo, and wrestle you to the ground like Steve Irwin taking down a croc.

Crikey!

[magicdownunder]

I hate to break it to you but:


...or DOES IT

[Khaospawn]

I figured it would look more like this:

[Jack]

[zemanjaski]

Moon is indeed nuts vs Pod. Only delusional pod scrubs disagree. Kill dork >> Moon >> GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG (Korean accent)

[zemanjaski]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

Is that deck still the best thing in the format? 3 sets have been released since I last tried it.

It's not remotely close.

[zemanjaski]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

I'm going to try to force burn lol. Maybe I'll get disheartened like MDU, but after several failed attempts with Kiki Control, I just don't think I'm cut out to play control.

Control has a
different mind set attached to it. Even now I am trying to get use to it and I stumble a bit. Another thing Kiki Control lists need major refinement. Too many cards are competing against each other on many levels.

I second Z and say rock Heal's RDW. It is a solid deck.

I just find that I screw / flood so much with that list. Or I draw do nothing hands and flounder. I just don't like to play like that. Infinite angels is cool though.

It's mostly because Kiki Control is awful, which I told you a month ago.

[Jack]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

Is that deck still the best thing in the format? 3 sets have been released since I last tried it.

It's not remotely close.

What would you want to play now? I'm thinking of building another deck, since a few of my friends have taken a liking to the format.

[zemanjaski]

I think you misunderstood, mono u is easily the best deck in the format and only bads will play anything else.

[Jack]

Yup. You meant "nothing else is close to being better" and I read "it's not even close to being the best," which sounded weird because it was really good against the meta a few months ago.

[Jack]

We're both talking MUC, not that ninja cloud bullshit, right?

[zemanjaski]

It saddens me you even had to ask.

[xdavisx]

Long time lurker so bear with me guys. I've had the hardest time against jund/rock. Any tips/suggestions on how to approach the matchup? Are dismembers and relics the appropriate cards to bring in?

[LaZerBurn]

Hi xdavisx, welcome to DTR - I'd highly recommend reading the full thread as we haven't figured out a concrete SB plan yet and different ideas are being discussed at various points That said here and here are your best SB plan starting points

[xdavisx]

oh I've gone through the thread numerous times, it's been very informative. But I've jammed the deck in testing, various ptqs, and other tourneys and the b/g/x decks are the most problematic for me.