Red Deck Wins

[Khaospawn]

See, Keith? You can tell by who has played the deck and who hasn't by the type of posts they make. Jack is now a believer. You can be too. Join our cult....be one of us.....play with Mountains....

[hamfactorial]

One of us

[Jack]

One of us!

[rage_jl]

This deck has been a lot of fun, I've only played it a few matches but it's hard to believe how many games Molten Rain alone wins. Besides flooding or the other guy drawing the nuts the only problems have been Wurmcoil and Batterskull. When it's a slug fest this deck seems to come out on top.

Not sure if this is correct but I'll play a Lavamancer early to eat removal then drop a Vexing Devil, against decks playing Bolt. Does these seem like the correct play?

[Valdarith]

Depends on how much removal your opponent plays.

[hamfactorial]

If it's a deck like Affinity where controlling the board early is important, lead with Grimmy.

I almost always play the Devil first in matchups where I'm the beatdown. It's dying anyway, so you'd rather give them the opportunity to trade a removal spell for it, 1:1, so your Grim can live. A dead devil in the GY is nice Grim fuel, in any case.

[hamfactorial]

This is also why I dislike Vexing Devil, it's almost never a 4/3. Seal of Fire at least lets me choose the mode.

[Valdarith]

Pretty much. Lavaman will typically do more damage over time, so you tend to want to bait removal with VD and give the illusion to your opponent that he gained 4 life early.

[LP, of the Fires]

Having said all of that, if I have lavaman, mountain, fetch, vd, I'll usually lead with grim so that I can turn 2 devil, deal four and have fetch+lava activation mana up.

In cases where you're you think you opponent only has 1 removal spell, letting grim eat it is often fine as for lavamancer to deal more then 4, is going to cost you 2+ mana and given the contents of your hand and the context of the game that may be too much of a cost for efficient threat deployment.

Mana efficiency is one of you bigger strengths.

[zemanjaski]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

[Khaospawn]

We don't serve your kind 'round these parts! Walk on home, boy. You and your "underwater mountains" ain't welcome here!

[Lightning_Dolt]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

I'm going to try to force burn lol. Maybe I'll get disheartened like MDU, but after several failed attempts with Kiki Control, I just don't think I'm cut out to play control.

[zemanjaski]

Heal's deck is better than burn and I have no doubt you'll pilot it well

[Lightning_Dolt]

Heal's deck is better than burn and I have no doubt you'll pilot it well

I meant for pauper (which I know you disapprove of). I'm trying to get some testing in before the modern tournament, but my team / work schedule are being difficult.

[NerdBoyWonder]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

I'm going to try to force burn lol. Maybe I'll get disheartened like MDU, but after several failed attempts with Kiki Control, I just don't think I'm cut out to play control.

Control has a different mind set attached to it. Even now I am trying to get use to it and I stumble a bit. Another thing Kiki Control lists need major refinement. Too many cards are competing against each other on many levels.

I second Z and say rock Heal's RDW. It is a solid deck.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

I'm going to try to force burn lol. Maybe I'll get disheartened like MDU, but after several failed attempts with Kiki Control, I just don't think I'm cut out to play control.

Control has a different mind set attached to it. Even now I am trying to get use to it and I stumble a bit. Another thing Kiki Control lists need major refinement. Too many cards are
competing against each other on many levels.

I second Z and say rock Heal's RDW. It is a solid deck.

I just find that I screw / flood so much with that list. Or I draw do nothing hands and flounder. I just don't like to play like that. Infinite angels is cool though.

[NerdBoyWonder]

Understandable. Happens to me also and I suffered at the hands of that during testing on Tuesday. If it continues this way I may just drop Kiki control all together and just make a mono red Kiki commander deck.

[LP, of the Fires]

If you can get the cards, I highly recommend jund as a solid alternative. You have single cards in your deck that Pod and Tempo Twin outright fold to

I've literally never lost to Twin after resolving Bow of Nylea.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I can't justify thousands of dollars for the cards I don't have (most of the deck). If there was a dega midrange that worked in a similar fashion, I'd be interested, but it's too much money for me to drop at this junction in my life.

[LP, of the Fires]

Figured you might be able to borrow the cards depending on the size of your time. If you can get a good name for yourself, you'll play tier 1 decks forever.

Nobody good at magic pays for anything(outside of initial modo investments).

I really should write a Jund Primer, I was mercin' nigga's last night. You play pod? Anger of the gods; moving along.

[Jack]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

Is that deck still the best thing in the format? 3 sets have been released since I last tried it.

[magicdownunder]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

Is that deck still the best thing in the format? 3 sets have been released since I last tried it.

Its absurdly broken, even pre-8post banning but even more so now

That said a Good hand from Elves or Affinity can still beat you (emphasis on the word good ).

[magicdownunder]

[deck=Heal's RDW]Creatures 20
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Vexing Devil
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Spells 20
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Molten Rain
2 Forked Bolt
2 Shrine of Burning Rage

Land 20
2 Keldon Megaliths
10 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard 15
2 Dragon's Claw
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Dismember
2 Blood Moon
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Shattering Spree[/deck]

Heal's List SB'ing Guide Round 2

---

Jund

In:
2x Blood Moon
2x Relic of Pregenitus

Out:
4x Vexing Devil

Musing1: Post board we'll see annoying 4/4 piggies which gain life is dismember still a no? I think it is since we're already gambling on Searing Blaze
Musing2: Creatures kinda get **** blocked swapping out Devils and Guide for more burns doesn't seem horrible

nPod

In:
2x Dismember
2x Relic of Pregenitus
2x Smash the Smithereens
2x Blood Moon

Out:
4x Vexing Devil
4x Goblin Guide

Musing1: Blood Moons are questionable vs Pod, same with SiS imo would it not be better just too run 4x Bombs?

vs UWr

In:
2 Blood Moon
2 Dismember
4 Pyrite Spellbomb

Out:
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Searing Blaze

Musing1: Grim seems powerful against this deck but 12+ removal spell as no (imo)

Affinity

Out
4 Goblin Guide
4 Molten Rain

In
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Shattering Spree
1 Dismember

Twins

Out
4 Molten Rain
4 Rift Bolt

In:
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Dismember
2 Smash to Smithereens

Musing1: SiS seems odd, however we're boarding against G2-3 not G1 so expect artifacts.

I'm giving
this a shot either on Sunday if I can convince Kait or IO2 to play the MOCS5 for me or if I can't next week - please tell me if I'm approaching any of the MUs incorrectly.

I'm still missing Blood Moons which is a tad depressing but I'll just buy em

EDIT:

Affinity

Draw:

Out
4 Goblin Guide
4 Molten Rain

In
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Shattering Spree
1 Dismember

Play

Out
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
2 Shrine

In
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Blood Moon
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Shattering Spree
1 Dismember

YOLO?

[LP, of the Fires]

Blood moons great against pod. The games you win often involve killing a mana dork, setting them behind, then screwing with their mana some more while pushing more damage through.

Also, if you're on the play, blood moon is good vs. affinity and molten rain is fine. There two main ways to win are by playing master of etherium which is basically unbeatable game one and by threatening you with inkmoth nexii and arcbaound ravager/plating.

Forked bolt can't kill lands unfortunately.

[Khaospawn]

MDU, I only skimmed through your sideboard guide, but for the love of Purphoros, leave in Rift Bolt against Twin!

[magicdownunder]

Why? its Sorc speed - its rather weak compared with our other options.

Heck its best utility its killing the 0/4 guys which our other cards can just do better (I'll even keep fork bolt over it (that is how much I hate it)).

That said: MDU = ZERO Experience, Khaos = Experienced so please explain it too me why you think Rift Bolt is good here.

So far: I kinda like the Blood Moon and LD vs Affinity on the play plan (cause YOLO) keep up the advice guys

EDIT: Thoughts on "Making it Molten Rain" vs other aggro decks like 2/3 color burn? Or Zoo?
EDIT2: NM I just notice that if we're "making it happen" vs Affinity (the king of modern aggro) we can do it vs everything else (within reason).

[LP, of the Fires]

Not sure the best way to board against twin, but I know the only card I'm really interested in is dismember.

This is a matchup where you definitely don't want to overboard. They have a bunch of aweful cards they're boarding out but they aren't making significant improvements aside from adding maybe a batterskull or spellskite.

[LP, of the Fires]

Molten rain can be good or bad depending on how fast the other deck is. Blood moon hoses zoo as most of their creatures care about land types and shrink in the moons presence.

[Khaospawn]

Rift Bolt, how I love thee. Let me count the ways..

- 3 damage > 2 damage. This is huge when you're facing a deck that threatens to auto-kill you at any given time after turn 3. You simply cannot afford to take the game too long, so you'll need to able to throw 3 at the face a lot. Also allows your Forked Bolt and Mogg Fanatics "trade up" and kill Exarchs, Restoration Angels, and Spellskites.

- Suspend. Yes, Rift Bolt is a sorcery, but the Suspend changes the way your opponents play. Simply advertising that Bolt may delay them from deploying an Exarch in your upkeep to bottleneck your mana. Being to suspend it also frees your mana on a subsequent turn for important things like Lavamancer activations or whatever.

- It's Red. Shrine cares about Red cards.

When it comes to playing against Twin, I prefer to take out the Molten Rains for Dismember and Smash to Smithereens. That's it.

[Khaospawn]

Molten rain can be good or bad depending on how fast the other deck is. Blood moon hoses zoo as most of their creatures care about land types and shrink in the moons presence.

You have to assume the Control role vs Zoo since all they want to do is race and, let's face it, they do it better than we do.

My plan is: -4 devil, -3 Molten rain
+4 Spellbomb, +1 Blood Moon, +2 Claw

And then I just use Goblin Guides as a 2/2 wall. Lol

Burn their dudes away, survive and win via shrine or just by strategically nipping away at their life. The fact that their manabase is so painful is a huge edge for us.

[Khaospawn]

Also, I don't like Dismember vs Zoo. Anybody else feel the same way?

[magicdownunder]

Not a fan of Dismember vs Zoo either.

Seem like we have different experience against Twin (I come from a more Burn and tempo background, heck I even play twins ) I dislike how Rift advises itself and its slow nature, I feel that Spellbomb on the other had represent an uncountable burn which results in a situation where they simply CAN'T combo because they need to counter everything too go off, add Grim in the mix, Dismember and so on and you'll have them at a point where it would take 8+ mana before its "safe".

That said I agree its fantastic for racing and I love how its a free spell when you actually cast it - perhaps racing them is better then hindering them I guess I'll find out once I finally sink some hours into it, though it is alarming that the list didn't make a dent on the MTGO winning page.

[Khaospawn]

I've been playing with Twin for the last few days myself.

What don't understand is how a 2 mana shock is better than a Rift Bolt. You have to be the aggressor in this battle. You either need to be punching through with lots of damage or forcing Twin to play things out of order.

Just play with the deck. You'll get what I'm talking about. I don't claim to be the authority on this, but a lot this makes sense to me. Although there is the off chance that I'm completely insane.

[GoblinWarchief]

I hear pauper mono u and was summoned.

Is that deck still the best thing in the format? 3 sets have been released since I last tried it.

Its absurdly broken, even pre-8post banning but even more so now

That said a Good hand from Elves or Affinity can still beat you (emphasis on the word good ).

I recommend playing goblins rather than burn. Not because i love goblins, but because it is just better. It can act as a control deck in disguise in some matches while being extremely explosive in others. Sparksmith is fantastic, death spark is awesome against delver decks .... it is definitely better than elves and less broken, but much more consistent than affinity. Matchup against monoblue is definitely winnable. Read this thread , it is salvation but is quite good http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the- ... ed-goblins

[Valdarith]

I actually like the idea of Spellbomb against Twin because it's easy to lead with it on turn one or two and dare them to end step Pestermite or Exarch. Having Searing Blaze in the list helps a ton here since you just activate landfall, Blaze the Exarch, then finish him off with either Mogg Fanatic or Spellbomb. I think against UR the swap of 4x Molten Rain for 2x Dismember and 2x Spellbomb is fairly obvious. Perhaps taking the Forked Bolts out for the other two Spellbombs is correct too, but since UR tends to run Spellskite I'd probably prefer Smash to Smithereens.

This is all theorycrafting of course.

[Khaospawn]

Fyi, Spellbomb still requires mana to activate it.

On turn 1, you want to be doing more than tapping out for a Spellbomb. Like suspending a Rift Bolt....

Another cool thing about Rift Bolt is that you can still use it with Searing Blaze when you can't trigger landfall to kill an x/4 .....

And like I also said, 2 Dismember and 2 Smash is what you'll want.

[Khaospawn]

Forked Bolt should stay. Makes Pestermite and Lavamancer your bitch while also can compliment a Bolt to hit that 4 damage.....it's also Red for the sake of Shrine.

[magicdownunder]

The problem is that the x/4 we want to kill have flash so rift bolt isn't likely too do the job.

I'm not saying your wrong Khaos, the only difference we're having is play-style - your trying to race the combo deck, we're trying to delay them - I see the bomb as a removal spell rather then a lava spike...

[Khaospawn]

Just play the deck. I'll wait. When you guys tell me I'm right, I won't let it go to my head. I promise.

Also, I think Heal mentions something in the decktech about Rift Bolt being needed for Twin....

[Khaospawn]

This whole "me vs 'we" thing is ridiculous by the way. It's more like Khaos talking sense to the people who haven't played with the deck.


Niggas need to wake up and stop over analyzing this shit.