Gone Postal Mafia - Game Over - Scum Win

[Wraith223]

I voted LMD because chasing my own tail by rereading the thread has gotten me nowhere. He's the lynch that involves the least WIFOM.

Sounds good. Will wait to hear what C_P thinks and vote accordingly (LMD is my best scum read).

[Cursed_Pride]

My biggest qualm with regards to LMD-scum is that everyone basically agrees that he's scum. I've never seen a situation where that happens in lylo and that person actually flips scum.

I had login issues as well.

My gut says RN is scum, but I'm having serious trouble finding a scumbuddy for him. Dechs doesn't work since he had a very long time period where they could both hammer. If Wraith and RN are scum I will congratulate them. I think ham is town.

RN/Lord_McD? Muh.

I'll put in more work in this game in the morning.

L_McD: Why are you town? I want you to tell me what you've done that makes you town.

[RedNihilist]

You're not going to find my scum buddy because I'm not scum, duh.

Why doesn't my [ham / LMD] + [DK / Wraith] theory sound convincing to you?
Let's at least try to be constructive here, I find this "let's wait for C_P to act on his own" thing very frustrating.

[Wraith223]

Red tripped a big scum read I was waiting for. The first in this day to complain about waiting for C_P. We are in no hurry and working together does not benefit scum. Hasty votes do. I learned my lesson. Red apparently has not.

@C_P, LMD and Red were voting for me together at one time. Not sure if that matters though with day 1 and all.

[RedNihilist]

Red tripped a big scum read I was waiting for. The first in this day to complain about waiting for C_P. We are in no hurry and working together does not benefit scum. Hasty votes do. I learned my lesson. Red apparently has not.

...says the guy who quickhammered on Day 2.

Tell me more on the differences between then and now.

[Wraith223]

Red tripped a big scum read I was waiting for. The first in this day to complain about waiting for C_P. We are in no hurry and working together does not benefit scum. Hasty votes do. I learned my lesson. Red apparently has not.

...says the guy who quickhammered on Day 2.

Tell me more on the differences between then and now.

Sure.

If you noted my statement that I learned my lesson; I would hope you have headed my mistake. Your comment is frivolous now. You seem more hurried this day, and I don't understand your posts to C_P. In one, you asked him to post more/
talk, but now you are irritated with C_P for town following him or attaining consensus. That looks like another scum tell to me. Don't write so angrily and I think your posts should not look so scummy.

[RedNihilist]

Nope, you're just slinging mud.
I asked him a question, so I'm STILL asking him to "post more/talk" as you said.

[hamfactorial]

My biggest qualm with regards to LMD-scum is that everyone basically agrees that he's scum. I've never seen a situation where that happens in lylo and that person actually flips scum.

I had login issues as well.

My gut says RN is scum, but I'm having serious trouble finding a scumbuddy for him. Dechs doesn't work since he had a very long time period where they could both hammer. If Wraith and RN are scum I will congratulate them. I think ham is town.

RN/Lord_McD? Muh.

I'll put in more work in this game in the morning.

L_McD: Why are you town? I want you to tell me what you've done that makes you town.

Alright, I'll play along.

Unvote

Who would you like me to dig into? I'll re-read again.

[RedNihilist]

ham, am I scum?
Who's scummier between Wraith and DK?

[Wraith223]

Nope, you're just slinging mud.
I asked him a question, so I'm STILL asking him to "post more/talk" as you said.

You are the one that requested C_P talk more and now you are irritated by town waiting on him.

If anyone is slinging mud; it's you baby.

I am just responding to the scum tells players are posting. Asking who is scummier, contradicting yourself with C_P, and not posting reasons why you think certain players are scum are not helpful to town. It's like you are "acting" town instead of
playing town.

[Wraith223]

My biggest qualm with regards to LMD-scum is that everyone basically agrees that he's scum. I've never seen a situation where that happens in lylo and that person actually flips scum.

I had login issues as well.

My gut says RN is scum, but I'm having serious trouble finding a scumbuddy for him. Dechs doesn't work since he had a very long time period where they could both hammer. If Wraith and RN are scum I will congratulate them. I think ham is town.

RN/Lord_McD? Muh.

I'll put in more work in this game in the morning.

L_McD: Why are you town? I want you to tell me what you've
done that makes you town.

Alright, I'll play along.

Unvote

Who would you like me to dig into? I'll re-read again.

Can you look into Red. He claims to have a mail watcher ability. What if he could forge mail or alter it? Very hypothetical, but it has been on my mind as of late.

[RedNihilist]

Nope, you're just slinging mud.
I asked him a question, so I'm STILL asking him to "post more/talk" as you said.

You are the one that requested C_P talk more and now you are irritated by town waiting on him.

If anyone is slinging mud; it's you baby.

I am just responding to the scum tells players are posting. Asking who is scummier, contradicting
yourself with C_P, and not posting reasons why you think certain players are scum are not helpful to town. It's like you are "acting" town instead of playing town.

The thing you're doing is called "fencesitting" and it's an actual scum tell, unlike those fake slips you're trying to set up against me in order to have people tunnel me.

I'm actively trying to promote discussion, you're trying to disrupt it.

[hamfactorial]

My biggest qualm with regards to LMD-scum is that everyone basically agrees that he's scum. I've never seen a situation where that happens in lylo and that person actually flips scum.

I had login issues as well.

My gut says RN is scum, but I'm having serious trouble finding a scumbuddy for him. Dechs doesn't work since he had a very long time period where they could both hammer. If Wraith and RN are scum I will congratulate them. I
think ham is town.

RN/Lord_McD? Muh.

I'll put in more work in this game in the morning.

L_McD: Why are you town? I want you to tell me what you've done that makes you town.

Alright, I'll play along.

Unvote

Who would you like me to dig into? I'll re-read again.

Can you look into Red. He claims to have a mail watcher ability. What if he could forge mail or alter it? Very hypothetical, but it has been on my mind as of late.

He claimed to mail imopen2 on night 1, which corresponded with his death. No idea if that matters, but I noticed it.

[hamfactorial]

Red and DK also never claimed their sent mail.

[Wraith223]

Nope, you're just slinging mud.
I asked him a question, so I'm STILL asking him to "post more/talk" as you said.

You are the one that requested C_P talk more and now you are irritated by town waiting on him.

If anyone is slinging mud; it's you baby.

I am just responding to the scum tells players are posting. Asking who is scummier, contradicting yourself with C_P, and not posting reasons why you think certain players are scum are not helpful to town. It's like you are "acting" town instead of playing town.

The thing you're doing is called "fencesitting" and it's an actual scum tell, unlike those fake slips you're trying to set up against me in order to have people tunnel me.

I'm actively trying to promote discussion, you're trying to disrupt it.

Huge lie. I am willing to vote you or LMD currently. You asked for thoughts from C_P and now anyone else who talks or questions you is disrupting? Also, complaining about town waiting for consensus is disrupting? I asked Ham to check you out cause it he is was not looking
into you as scum currently. New eyes looking into a player is good for town. If he finds nothing; you should be good...unless you do have something to hide? Ham unvoted as well cause hasty/yolo decisions are a bad idea late game. The more a player posts; the more reads we get. Why would you not want more players talking or asking questions? You are just not acting town today.

[Wraith223]

Red and DK also never claimed their sent mail.

I saw that with Red and he never posted the mail he claimed to have seen or watched? Not sure how his ability works.

Though DK posted his mail. Will check that.....

[RedNihilist]

This is getting interesting.
Elaborate, the both of you.

[Wraith223]

At this point of the game I wouldn't be surprised if C_P was a godfather, honestly.
My only game as scum was Fire and Ice where I replaced in - go see for yourself.

---------

I'm okay with lynching Wraith.
If you want to lynch me, go ahead, I'm fed up with this game - OH NO! WAIT! Let's slow down some more! That's working!

Early Day 4 Red posts this. Was he trying to get a C_P vote going underhanded? Also, he is asking for the game to speed up. I am seeing a pattern here.

DK did reveal his mail Day 3 but not Day 4.

[hamfactorial]

Ok, apologies, maybe it was only Red who didn't claim his N1 mail. He sent mail to DK N2, allegedly. I showed DK's mail to me from N3.

[Wraith223]

<- won't post anything more until C_P shows up.

REALLY. What changed now this time.

You complained about town slowing down. Then you posted this. Later, you ask for C_P to talk more, and now you are irritated with everyone getting a consensus with a C_P blessing. A consistency problem has been located with you. Please explain.

[RedNihilist]

Nope, you're just slinging mud.
I asked him a question, so I'm STILL asking him to "post more/talk" as you said.

You are the one that requested C_P talk more and now you are irritated by town waiting on him.

If anyone is slinging mud; it's you baby.

I am just responding to the scum tells players are posting. Asking who is scummier, contradicting yourself with C_P, and not posting reasons why you think certain players are scum are not helpful to town. It's like you are "acting" town instead of playing town.

The thing you're doing is called "fencesitting" and it's an actual scum tell, unlike those fake slips you're trying to set up against me in order to have people tunnel me.

I'm actively trying to promote discussion, you're trying to disrupt it.

Huge lie.

Nope.

I am willing to vote
you or LMD currently.

Are you distancing him?

You asked for thoughts from C_P and now anyone else who talks or questions you is disrupting?

You're being disrupting since day 1.
You're the one who slowrolled on the first day scumkill, you're the one who quickhammered town on day 2, you're the one that acted like C_P could REALLY be scum, you're the one who tries to pass fencesitting as a proper town behaviour.

Also, complaining about town waiting for consensus is disrupting?

What?

I asked Ham to check you out cause it he is was not looking into you as scum currently. New eyes looking into a player is good for town. If he finds nothing; you should be good...unless you do have something to hide? Ham unvoted as well cause hasty/yolo decisions are a bad idea late game. The more a player posts; the more reads we get. Why would you not want more players talking or asking questions? You are just not acting town today.

I don't recall saying anything about the post you've directed at ham.
In fact, I was the one asking ham questions just before you did.

Is this a straw man argument?

[RedNihilist]

I didn't send any mail on N4.

[RedNihilist]

<- won't post anything more until C_P shows up.

REALLY. What changed now this time.

You complained about town slowing down. Then you posted this. Later, you ask for C_P to talk more, and now you are irritated with everyone getting a consensus with a C_P blessing. A consistency problem has been located with you. Please explain.

Nope, you're making this up.
I've actually asked things to C_P.
I've complained about the fact that everybody is leaving him on his own.

[Wraith223]

At this point of the game I wouldn't be surprised if C_P was a godfather, honestly.
My only game as scum was Fire and Ice where I replaced in - go see for yourself.

---------

I'm okay with lynching Wraith.
If you want to lynch me, go ahead, I'm fed up with this game - OH NO! WAIT! Let's slow down some more! That's working!

Starts the C_P claim of Scum boss/ Complains of game slowness.

<- won't post anything more until C_P shows up.

Fence Sits and slows down.

[...]Who originally proposed this theory of C_P being scum boss?

It was actually a bitter joke on my part.

Admits to joke. Was it a joke or a cover response?

Ok, this is getting ridicolous.
I'll write this again: if you think I'm scum just hang me, I'm really fed up with this game and rereading 40 pages of madness because C_P says I "need to commit" on my case against Wraith is really beyond my possibilities.

Let's sum things up:
- I get
a case on myself;
- I refuse to give up on this game and try to find something to help town once I flip town - namely, I case the raspy-ham couple;
- we end up lynching raspy, after a lot of effort by my side, while Wraith does his best to shift the focus from raspy to LMD;
- raspy flips scum;
- on D2 C_P asks people to slowroll because he wants to I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WANTED TO DO, HE JUST WANTED TO DO SOMETHING;
- Wraith quick-hammers;
- group hugs to Wraith because he feels offended by a post from Iso and wants to sub out;
- Wraith is considered absolutely town because, you know, scum never subs out - (Manders pointed out G_R subbing out for me in Fire & Ice as a scum tell, but Manders is a shitty player, huh?).

I'm really angry at how things went astray in this game and I'm not going to say it's anybody's fault but mine, yet labeling Wraith as town for no reason at all while investigating me is something that should make you all feel stupid.

Wants to win, but
complains about playing the game. Takes credit for Inflateablepie's work. When anyone targets Red for investigation; he posts more. Claiming he did all the work with on the RCW case is a complete Lie. He was asked by Pie to join him. It was not his idea.

"This is not helping my case".
What case are we talking about?
I'm not being cased, I'm not casing anyone... care to explain?

Also, QUIT REREADING C_P AND EVALUATING HIS SCUMMINESS FFS.

You started the theory. We checked it and found it absurd. You offended we caught you in an underhanded attempt to lyncg C_P?

I don't see Wraith's late post being "good enough" to be a reliable
scum end-game strategy.
The same goes for DK's silence.
I expect scum to be willing to try to misdirect town at this point, honestly.

Agreed, what is with the hastiness and C_P scum boss claim then?

RedNihilist » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:05 am. I'm trying very hard to avoid tunneling Wraith, that's why I get angry at the idea of re-reading 40+ pages of Wraith's madness to case him when it would be WAY more smart to have someone else do the same without being so emotionally upset at him.
And yes, LMD's vote could have been a trap directed as me as well.

This is strong distancing to me. You don't want to tunnel me, but you are emotional upset with me? Now you think I am scum? Which is it?

C_P, come here so we can discuss things.

He summons C_P for an opinion.
Wants to slow down perhaps?

You're not going to find my scum buddy because I'm not scum, duh.

Why doesn't my [ham / LMD] + [DK / Wraith] theory sound convincing to you?
Let's at least try to be constructive here, I find this "let's wait for C_P to act on his own" thing very frustrating.

Now he finds waiting C_P irritating, yet did just that? Laying out this days has showed me that Red in very inconsistent and hasty this game. The lie or omission of credit to Pie has me placing Red in a stronger seat of scum than LMD. Thoughts?

[hamfactorial]

ham, am I scum?
Who's scummier between Wraith and DK?

I'm not sure about you. You've been teetering back and forth all game for me.

I find DK scummier than Wraith.

[Dechs Kaison]

Red and Wraith going back and forth again, I see. I'm really feeling that one of them is scum.

You guys have seen my case on LMD, but now I feel like it's only gotten better. Look at the votes, Red was all over Wraith the past two days but today the quick Wraith vote came from LMD. They're coordinating effort to try to hang Wraith and I feel like he's the mislynch target in all this confusion that fell out after LMD didn't die from the bomb. Also, we had two votes on LMD for a good long while. If he wasn't scum, the scum team could have seen to it that he hanged because we've all been online during that time.

So, I've made my decision and I'm going to commit to it.

Vote LMD

There's no reason for you guys to rush this. Make sure you're comfortable hanging him before you toss in with me.

V/LA - I'm about to begin the long trip home across 13 time zones.
I have to get on a bus for the airport, then a 12 hour flight followed by a 2 hour flight. I don't have much layover time. My next opportunity to post will be after about 9 PM EDT, but I doubt I'll be feeling like playing mafia. Expect to see me sometime Thursday morning.

[Cursed_Pride]

God why does every time I think I have the game figured out, RN makes me think twice.

You're not going to find my scum buddy because I'm not scum, duh.

Why doesn't my [ham / LMD] + [DK / Wraith] theory sound convincing to you?
Let's at least try to be constructive here, I find this "let's wait for C_P to act on his own" thing very frustrating.

I think hamfactorial is town.

DK/Wraith could be a possibility, but I would have to look into that further.

Who would you like me to dig into? I'll re-read again.

Can you do a meta analysis of RedNihilist from Fire and Ice Mafia and one of his town games? I remember clearing him as town very early in Checkbox.

nAt least try. I can help, if I have time.

This Wraith/RN fight is getting nowhere. Please stop.

I want LMD to show up and answer my question.

[RedNihilist]

This Wraith/RN fight is getting nowhere. Please stop.

Just this:

RedNihilist » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:05 am. I'm trying very hard to avoid tunneling Wraith, that's why I get angry at the idea of re-reading 40+ pages of Wraith's madness to case him when it would be WAY more smart to have someone else do the same without being so emotionally upset at him.
And yes, LMD's vote could have been a trap directed as me as well.

This is strong distancing to me. You don't want to tunnel me, but you are emotional upset with me?
Now you think I am scum? Which is it?

Am I drunk, or he did just try to call me scum for distancing him?

[RedNihilist]

http://diestoremoval.com/search.php?aut ... 8&sr=posts

After rereading Suga, I feel like DK is 100% town.

[hamfactorial]

I did some thinking about an old style of puzzle that I liked to do when I was young. They were called logic puzzles, and could usually be solved by laying out a grid and marking a dot or an X between pairs of things that you wanted to sort out.

They usually went like "a farmer has four cows. One cow is red, one is named Daisy, one is blue, the cow named Martha isn't brown" and you'd work your way through associations until you identified all the cows and their colors.

I made a 4x4 grid with Red, Wraith, LMD and DK and started looking for associations using the most direct tool: lynch votes. Occam's Razor says that in a game with 2 scum players going into day 2, they're likely to vote to lynch town players instead of each other.

To construct the grid, I laid out the four players on each axis and got to work. I put an
X into self pairs, since a player can't form a 2-man team with himself.

Then I put an X wherever a player has shown consistent voting against another player. Wraith consistently votes for Red, and Red consistently votes for Wraith so they each get an X. DK consistently votes for LMD, so they get an X. LMD consistently votes for Wraith, so they get an X.

This arrangement gives only 2 possibilities for the scum team: Red/LMD or DK/Wraith.

I find it interesting that Red laid out an almost identical scum team pairing, except with me teamed with LMD instead of him, since naturally Red would put himself as town and so would I.

Other players here should evaluate this matrix for themselves (with or without players they think are confirmed town).

[Wraith223]

@ C_P, Fine. Will stop poking the bear. I will watch him closely and respond to any future scum tells though. I laid out a significant issue I found in his post analysis from today. Can you post in numbers list what the questions are again for LMD. Just to get every one on the same page for analysis.

[RedNihilist]

I did some thinking about an old style of puzzle that I liked to do when I was young. They were called logic puzzles, and could usually be solved by laying out a grid and marking a dot or an X between pairs of things that you wanted to sort out.

They usually went like "a farmer has four cows. One cow is red, one is named Daisy, one is blue, the cow named Martha isn't brown" and you'd work your way through associations until you identified all the cows and their colors.

I made a 4x4 grid with Red, Wraith, LMD and DK and started looking for associations using the most direct tool: lynch votes. Occam's Razor says that in a game with 2 scum players going into
day 2, they're likely to vote to lynch town players instead of each other.

To construct the grid, I laid out the four players on each axis and got to work. I put an X into self pairs, since a player can't form a 2-man team with himself.

Then I put an X wherever a player has shown consistent voting against another player. Wraith consistently votes for Red, and Red consistently votes for Wraith so they each get an X. DK consistently votes for LMD, so they get an X. LMD consistently votes for Wraith, so they get an X.

This arrangement gives only 2 possibilities for the scum team: Red/LMD or DK/Wraith.

I find it interesting that Red laid out an almost identical scum team pairing, except with me teamed with LMD instead of him, since naturally Red would put himself as town and so would I.

Other players here should evaluate this matrix for themselves (with or without players they think are confirmed town).

Thumbs up for this post.

Are you still thinking DK is scummier than
Wraith, though?

[Stardust]

Votecount!

Wraith223 (1): Lord_Mcdonalds
Lord_Mcdonalds (1): Dechs Kaison

Not voting: Cursed_Pride, RedNihilist, Wraith223, hamfactorial

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Deadline is set for July 10th at 8 am CST (UTC-6), exactly one week from the time of this post.

[hamfactorial]

Thanks Red.

I read your ISO of Suga and had mixed feelings. He has excellent reads, putting raspy as scum, io2 and CM as town, but he was wrong about Pie. I'm not sure if that's because he was scum or just because he's a good player who can read people.

[RedNihilist]

When did he put raspy as scum? I think I've missed that post.

[hamfactorial]

He said raspy and Pie were the scum suspects on your wagon.

[RedNihilist]

Wouldn't it be that much of a problem to provide me a link?
I'm trying to act like I was working here!

[hamfactorial]

imopen is confirmed town in my eyes. too much rage for a scummer.

After a reread, I feel that CM is probably town. I don't see any real scum motivation in his posts.

After a reread, I REALLY don't like the wagon on Red. One innocuous comment has gotten him piled on. Looking at his wagon, I can assume that Wraith saw that one comment and his detective skills kicked in and he's latched on to that read. My
two favorite suspects on his wagon are rcw and inflatablepie. I'd like to see the pressure applied to RCW.

vote rcw

[RedNihilist]

Whoopsie, you wrote "Suga" but I've read "Wraith".
My bad.

Now, going back to Suga, let's try to play around him - if he was actually scum, who'd be his partner?

[RedNihilist]

PS: I'm questioning you because you're the only one that's actually answering.
I've got this gut read on Suga but I guess that calling the read "100% town" is quite ambitious.