[Primer] G/R Monsters

[Alex]

I'm not sure I understand why the Voyaging Satyrs aren't just Elvish Mystics in that deck. Is it because of all of the ETBT lands?

[Alex]

Setessan Tactics is a neat card though, I'm going to play Monsters at a super IQ tomorrow and I think I need to pick some of those up. I was intending to play Harness by Force but I almost like this one better.

[Valdarith]

I prefer Harness because it's the better card in the matches I want it (Monsters and black devotion). If I'm in topdeck mode against black devotion, Harness is exactly the kind of card I want to be drawing into. Tactics is a good card to have against the smaller decks like GR devotion, mono black aggro, red aggro, and blue devotion.

[Alex]

The deck has pretty fair matchups across the board, I've noticed. I'll probably play a 2/2 split of Tactics and Harness in the board. I want to try 'em both but I don't have a lot of time left to playtest.

[Elricity]

Voyaging satyr is in there because you need to make sure you hit [mana]rrr[/mana] or [mana]ww[/mana], particularly out of the board for fiendslayers. I think jund gets away with elves because it has no [mana]bb[/mana]? Also, the deck doesn't do that much ramping from 1 to 3 as it does from 2 to 4.

About harness, the monsters matchup is almost a bye, it doesn't need help. It also doesn't need a game winning punch since it's main goal is to grind you to death with planeswalkers. What it's very soft to is aggro, hence the tactics. I'm not sure if I like tactics yet since it doesn't have an early game play since you can't use it on summoning sick creatures.

I did put in a couple vandalblasts over unflinching courage since nothing has hexproof and I got tired of pithing needle. It should probably be wear//tear but I played against this dumb trading post deck. I'
m testing this:

[deck]

Creatures
3 Keening Apparition
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Voyaging Satyr
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Polukranos, World Eater

Super Friends
3 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Xenagos, the Reveler

Spells
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Mizzium Mortars

Land
3 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Plenty


Sideboard
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Setessan Tactics
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Unflinching Courage
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Magma Spray
2 Vandalblast
[/deck]

[Elricity]

Some rough aggro games I had made me cut a vandalblast and courage for a spray and 4th mortars. I just don't like courage in this deck. It has the potential for huge lifegains or just getting utterly blanked vs removal. That you can't put it on stormbreath is a huge minus. If you want lifegain, bow just might be better but I'm not certain the deck needs it.

The deck is really weak to boros reckoner unless you stabilize early and have the life to soak up redirects for the dragons. I don't think there's much to actually do about that.

It's a shame Ajani's ult just isn't realistic vs small aggro.

Finally got some games against black devotion and the matchup there feels solid. Even had one game vs an early whip and lifebane zombie where he cruised up to about 35 life while I fogged with planeswalkers for a while (probably a mistake on his part). Once I got a poly down to sweep his board, he scoops in the 30's.
It's actually questionable who the control deck.

Anyway, I really like it and I'm amused that other than the shock lands, it's almost entirely theros block. As long as the mana base holds up, should be playable post rotation.

[Link]

Destructive revelry hits artifacts and enchantments, not sure why I'd ever play Vandalblast over that...

[Elricity]

The random sweeper chance. How many needles do decks sideboard? Also, cheaper, the deck has solid enchant hate, and the two damage doesn't matter.

[Link]

the two damage can kill a jace for free or an elspeth that just wiped your stormbreath, I'd argue that it does matter.

And I'd be really, really surprised if anyone actually hit two needles with it

[Valdarith]

Updated list:

[deck]
Creatures (27)
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 Boon Satyr
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Xenagos, God of Revels

Planeswalkers (7)
4 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

Spells (3)
3 Mizzium Mortars

Lands (23)
2 Mana Confluence
2 Mutavault
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Stomping Ground
8 Forest
3 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Unravel the Aether
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Gruul Charm
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Harness by Force
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Nylea's Disciple
[/deck]

I won Gameday with my previous list BTW.

[Tyrael]

Seems like everyone is playing Jund currently, how do you feel about that Valdarith?

[Alex]

Jund is lame, I'm playing straight GR still also. I prefer the consistency.

[Valdarith]

Jund is lame, I'm playing straight GR still also. I prefer the consistency.

[Valdarith]

Expanding upon that, I played Jund for a little bit but ended up going back to GR. Why?

1) Consistency. I was running a couple more scrylands in the Jund build which reduced my odds of a three drop on two. The best opening you can have with this deck is turn two three drop into turn three four drop and that's MUCH harder to do with Jund.
2) Jund tends to play a more reactive game, especially postboard. I prefer to just beat my opponent's face in.
3) I personally don't think playing 8 more shocklands just for two Dreadbore and two Abrupt Decay in the main is worth it. You lose a lot of ground against the aggressive decks while only slightly improving your MBD and control matchups. While the sideboard does offer some juicy sideboard tech like Rakdos's Return and Golgari Charm, I feel like GR Monsters can effectively address the matchups where you'd want these cards without going with a black splash.

[Alex]

I would rather be able to play an Elvish Mystic on one as much as possible than play Abrupt Decay. Mizzium Mortars is usually enough removal for me.

[Valdarith]

Yep, and with 14 untapped green sources in my deck, it's going to happen A LOT. The deck has been humming like a well-oiled machine ever since I put in the two Mana Confluence.

[Alex]

I don't have Mana Confluence in mine, and I'm actually playing 4 Mutavaults too, but I like the deck the way it is. I have 12 potential untapped green sources and have been pretty happy with it. I'll post my decklist later when I have it on me.

[Alex]

Also what's up with the lists playing 4 Xenawalker? He's consistently been the worst card in the deck for me time and time again. Xenagod, on the other hand, has been super sweet. I tend to play out my Ghor-Clan Rampagers as creatures a lot, and drawing into Xenagod makes them tremendous, "must be answered immediately" threats more often than not. The card has been good, I'm playing 2 now and I think that is the right number.

I understand the "ramp" capacity of the card, but every time I've drawn it, it has been incredibly underwhelming, or I just had higher priority spells in my hand. I've only ever seen maybe two or three hands where he helped me power out multiple things per turn. The 2/2s are...alright, I guess, but I'd rather just play Chandra.

[Valdarith]

I think people are merely responding to the plethora a mbd and uwx control in the meta, and the card really shines there. I personally don't like more than two because I prefer to diversify my legendaries a bit more.

Agreed that Xenagod is a house. I recently went down from two to one because there were times I drew both and hated it and it also makes the curve a little clunkier. That said it is a house in midrange mirrors unless they're running white. I've had him Selesnya Charmed and Deicided far too many times vs GW and Naya and Junk.

[Alex]

If I was going to play a planeswalker it would be a planeswalker that draws me cards, especially in a deck like this. Chandra barely ever misses in this deck, and you even have a pseudo-Future Sight going on in the deck a lot of the time if you play her.

[Alex]

I'm going to go grab my list and post it real quick. It's probably not perfect, I threw it together before an IQ without any playtesting and ended up finishing 9th with a 6-1-1 record. Because apparently tiebreakers don't make sense.

[Valdarith]

Have you lived the dream with Courser, Domri, and Chandra on the board? Because I have and it is AWESOME.

[Alex]

No, but I did play with Thunderthighs and Courser a few times, it was pretty mathematical.

[LP, of the Fires]

Xenawalker is basically the best card in your deck when is good and the easiest to board out when it's bad. It also has a sweet ult which occasionally comes up.

I can respect rg but it feels less consistent whenever I play it because of how much easier it is to flood with the lower density of scry lands. That and the side board is a bunch of bad cards and destructive revelry.

[Alex]

[deck]Team Venture[/deck]

[Alex]

I don't actually agree that the sideboard is bad. You can do some pretty interesting things with it. Red has some sweet board cards right now.

Abrupt Decay is good but not good enough to ruin my first few turns for. There are other things that hit most of the things I'd be Abrupt Decay'ing anyway.

Harness By Force surprised me with how good it was. I'd play another one in there somewhere. It turns losing boards vs. Desecration Demons into onboard lethal.

[poppa_f]

Am thinking about playing Gruul for rotation, but can't decide whether to go all-in on the ramp/devotion strategy or go for something less powerful but more consistent.

The all-in ramp plan looks something like this:

all-in ramp

---

[deck]all-in ramp[/deck]

The more red-based / mid-range version looks like this:

mid-range

---

[deck]mid-range[/deck]

Both are very rough at the moment, I've not tested at all. I've not played monsters or devotion before, so a bit clueless about the nuances of the decks. I'll probably end up playing the mid-rangey one to begin with as I'm missing a few of the cards for the all-in version.

[Valdarith]

I have two ideas for GR.

[deck]GR Monsters[/deck]

[deck]GR Walkers[/deck]

[poppa_f]

Yeah I like having the extra fetches so you can filter your draws with Courser, I've only got the foothills available at the moment though.

I think the Planeswalker version looks more solid due to the card advantage and more resilient to sweepers. The only downside at the moment is neither deck has an answer to big fatties. Wondering if it's worth biting the bullet and just going Naya so you can run a few banishing Lights. White has some pretty sweet sideboard cards as well.

[Valdarith]

Fatties are mitigated slightly by playing our own. x/5s and up like Siege Rhino, PolyK, and Arbor Colossus can be problematic (hence the Colossus in my sideboard for midrange mirrors) but in the Walkers version you just tick down Sarkhan and then use a burn spell. Alternatively you block with a fatty and burn after damage. Two for ones aren't terrible with this deck since you're playing so many implicit two for ones in the form of Planeswalkers and Courser.

[poppa_f]

Yeah I guess worst case you can probably double/triple block with your team. In theory you just smash face and kill them with your flyers before they can ramp in to anything too big.

The nightmare scenario is when they Genesis Hydra in to Hornet Queen (quite easy to do in the ramp deck), which is why I thought Roar of challenge could be good sideboard tech for that match-up.

The ramp deck can also do some ridiculous crater's claws, so another thing to consider for Naya is Deflecting Palm, as that would also deal with any huge Polukranos or Genesis Hydra they swing in with.

[Toblakai]

@Poppa_f: Does your RG Midrange need Lightning Strike? Seems like you have enough ramp to run a set of Crater's Claws, which I would think better for a ramp strategy.

[Link]

Valadarith you tempt me so