The sales is an odd situation though as there were contractual/legal reasons we had to keep that secret until the sale finally went through. And the only reason why that went south is because some one decided to put the needs of a very small yet very vocal minority above the needs of the rest of the site.
Here there isn't quite the same burden of secrecy and it appears we have inadvertently invited a couple of people to take part in the beta without knowing it.
Rascals, can you put the text you have prepared up here as well before you unleash it to the masses.
2- Sheriff Galspanic
Starring in "Good Cop, Bad Cop: The Internet Forum Chronicles"
Originally posted by Galspanic on MTGS
What they don't
understand is that there is a constant exodus from the site that is slightly overpowered by our new registration. Basically, people are always moving on for any number of reasons.
And no, this isn't me downplaying their concerns... it's just that it's nothing new.
Originally posted by mikeyG on MTGS
No, feel free to downplay their concerns, that's what I'll be doing.
Originally posted by Galspanic on MTGS
Good Cop
Bad Cop
3- The one and only lapdog
World renowned expert: in Internet forums trolling countermeasures
Originally posted by ExpiredRascals on MTGS
Ok, I'm more than a little frustrated by this happening repeatedly, so we get a ML thread about it.
Don't take the troll bait.
Recently we've had a situation develop in CI because people bit on trollbait. First a local and then an admin. This is not something that happens just to the inexperienced, this happens to all of us
eventually. That being said, it's also something that inevitably creates CI drama.
Don't take the troll bait.
People will try to exploit your good nature by making a blatantly wrong post for you to correct. Often it will be something with a false assumed premise or fallacious logic. The purpose of the post is to get a response from you that they can then springboard off of.
Don't take the troll bait.
If you see an low post count account suggesting the GRRRRRRRRR should be publicly archived with the gutter, it's a troll account.
Don't take the troll bait.
If you see a post addressing you that is ignoring a mod request, it's troll bait. The entire point is to make it so that you feel compelled to respond.
Don't take the troll bait.
I've made the mistake more times than I can count, and I'm sure everyone else has as well, but we need to be much more careful about this. It's important to realize that you as a staff
member have a larger target on your head than most, and that a troll can generate a much larger stir if they can get you to bite.
Don't take the troll bait.
Look at the post you're replying to. If it's made by a low post user or a known troll, don't touch it. Maybe card it, maybe report it, but to blindly approach with benign innocence will result in more work and drama for you and everyone else. Look for the clear memes used in the past when targeting the staff.
Don't take the troll bait.
I get that this got pretty pedantic, but I'm tired of dealing with drama because a troll succeeded in exploiting someone's good nature. It's not a big deal for it to happen now and then, but this is turning into a major hassle that I'd rather not see repeated frequently.
Anyway, that's about it. Any questions, frustrations, or musings are welcome below.
Originally posted by kaburi on MTGS
This really should be stickied for
future generations to reference.
4 - Boubouille
For the timeless double-faced corporate posting here in DTR and in MTGS mod lounge. Never gets old!
Originally posted by Boubouille on MTGS
Hello,
I waited a little before starting a big thread in the ML but now is the time!
What would you say you do here? (Yep!)
As some of you might know, I'm that "Curse guy" who is in charge of MTGSalvation now that we took over. Some of you might have seen me hang out in the new Staff chat on AIM and jump in a couple of threads but I tried to lay low for a while to get a better feel of the community and let you guys adapt.
My job on the site isn't to replace the admins, I will definitely be
around if needed but ultimately most of the responsibilities still fall on admins. I'm mostly here to make the link between our team and Curse when needed (developers, marketing if we want to do giveaways, etc) and sometimes share my experience when it looks like it could be useful.
You can pretty much talk to me about any concern you have, best way to do that is to drop me a mail at [email protected] or talk to me on skype (fbonte-curse) and AIM (BoubouilleMMO). You should still go through the admin team for 95% of your concerns but it doesn't hurt to say hi and chat a little. ^^
What's going to change?
A lot and not much. We will move the site to our own platform in the near future (say 2 or 3 months) but you guys and the entire community will be involved as soon as we have something decent to show. We'll keep things in public testing for a while and make sure a huge majority is happy
before we actually go through with the change, it's pretty challenging to push something new on a 10 year old community full of people with very old habits but assuming we don't screw up, it should be make everyone's life easier.
On the moderation side, I did push a couple of ideas to the admin team but ultimately the decision will boil down to the mod team. I just assume that you know the community more than I do and I'm pretty fine with not having to micromanage moderation anyway. I'll definitely give my input to admins or in ML threads if necessary but the bottom line is that for a crushing majority of moderation-related issues my word isn't law and admins will have the final say.
In the short run I would also like to go through forums and see how we can expand them, see if we can run a bunch of contests or giveaways for example, and I'll be happy to hear random ideas you might have for the future.
So... Gutter?
The Gutter is a situation
I somewhat took over when we acquired the website because of how messy it got. Having new blood in the conversation did good and the situation isn't as bad as it used to be, to the point where we reach the critical phase: we might have to unban people.
The reason for this is that a lot of these bans were done in the middle of the summer drama and left people with a sense of injustice/incomprehension. I do realize that a lot of these people had a heavy past, but in the end we're stuck in a situation where a lot of people got banned at the same time in the middle of the summer dramas with what I think was a bit of collateral damage.
I do believe that the easiest way to "fix" the entire drama is to allow people who are willing to join the community and be positive members to come back. The admin team suggested a wave of appeal to let the mod team decide and it sounds pretty good to me, we had an example earlier this week that worked pretty well. I do realize that it might be hard but I
think if everybody involved try to stay slightly objective, the situation can be resolved.
Of course it will come as a trade off on their side, the Gutter will remain closed (and is very unlikely to be reopened), account sharing/multiple accounts will be forbidden, and we will probably keep a slightly closer eye on them (as long as it doesn't turn to harassment and trying to get them banned by all means)
Overall I think this is something that took way too much importance for the moderator team in general and that's why I really want to turn the page. The last stage on this is to get ML feedback so ... well, here we are.
Anything else?
Not much. I do realize that the situation might have been a tiny bit confusing over the past month. I took things slow on purpose to allow some discussion in the team and I think it was overall a good thing. I was also swarmed with real life, that part didn't help.
Hopefully you guys will leave me with enough
blood to go home when we're done with this thread. I'm a tiny bit scared.
Boubouille
5 - Nai
For more classic bullshit: Posting on DTR encouraging all the banned members to appeal in the rape cave, while at the same time posting in the mod lounge who is going to be unbanned or not
Originally posted by Nai on MTGS
Hey guys.
I've seen, in a lot of threads recently (most notably the 'bias and you' thread) similar comments from lots of mods about where they feel the upper staff, mostly the admins, are on the Gutter situation. A lot of you believe that we're in a place where the admins simply want to unban them.
After having spoken to Sene and ER, I thought this thread was appropriate. To let you all know where we are.
When Boubouille informed us that he believed there should be unbannings, I was unhappy. There is a lot of bile over there on MTGC, a lot of upset with us and constant
attacks on us. I've been following them off and on for a while. Believe me, I see what's going on there.
So one of the things I decided to do, about a week ago, is be honest with them. Tell them where I felt we went wrong, and where I felt we went right. And then tried to lay the groundwork so that, if appeals were made and we were to consider unbannings, it'd be done on our terms. Not 'our' as in 'admin'. 'Our' as in 'staff'. If there will be unbannings, I want us to agree to it. I want us also to be the ones to say 'here's the stipulations, deal with it or get out'. Which is why, for anyone who's been following the MTGC thread, I've been sticking to my 'get in appeals' guns.
So that's that thread. And this is this one. So we can tell you exactly where we're at.
Boubouille has said something I agree with, though he said it in the admin chat, and I'm going to paraphrase that here: If a poster becomes a good poster,
if they contribute and cause no problems, then their history becomes moot. I think it'd be a good idea to work on this ideal. So with that in mind, here's what I think.
Of the Gutter folks, here's what I think:
- N_S is outright 'no'. He's made it very clear, on that site on and on that thread, that he holds nothing but ill will for us. I can't imagine a single thing he could say that would make me change my mind on this. He can wait a couple of years until he learns that he's not in charge here.
- Kijin would probably get my 'unban' vote if he applied. He's also being very clear over there, but he's showing that he wants to work with us. To not only make the site better, but also to add content and basically be a good poster. I've talked with Kijin directly through PM and IM, in various threads and over there. I think he's being sincere, and I'd like to give him the chance to prove it.
- Kpaca is a hard one for me. Again, I've spoken to
him through PM and IM. I feel as if I know his standards of speech and his general speaking pattern when it comes to posting. The whole '**** you' thing doesn't phase me much, since I can see what he thought I was typing. I'd have responded the same way if the staff told me to 'come back on my knees and beg'. I'd like to give him a chance, but I'm also willing to ask him to wait.
- Madding has been talking to Sene for a while now, and had a whole PM that he wrote to Sene that had all sorts of information in it about the Madding and Belza accounts. I felt there was enough reasonable doubt of their identities to make an unbanning just. Nothing more, nothing less.
- As for the rest of them, I haven't seen enough of them to make a decision on that.
But at the end of the day, guys, I want them to appeal. I want them to actually do it, to show they're willing to follow our rules and do things our way. And I want us to go into those appeals threads with 'if we bring
them back, will they be a good poster and add value to the boards' and the front of our mind, not as much 'what they did in the past'. If they cause problems I'll ban them myself when it comes to it.
Most importantly, though, I'm not going to overrule you guys. We, as the staff make decisions by checking with everyone who wants to weigh in. I'm not going to simply say 'Well, I think they should come back' and go ahead and do that. I've told them that, I've told Boubouille that, and I'm telling you that. We're making sure that a great deal of the staff agree with a decision before we send it through.
That's all from me. I know Sene and ER want to post in here for you guys.
Let's get on the same page folks; your opinion matters. We're not going to act without you.
6 - The lapdog
Again for having the best interests of DTR at heart
[quote1=ExpiredRascals;9652079:
1wdztjxf]My personal opinion is that the unbannings should be on a case-by-case basis through appeals.
I'm trying to avoid pre-judging, but I know already that I just can't see letting N_S back on site. All that crap that we've been spewing about "not making the staff take abuse" is really important to me, and I just see him spoiling for a fight. Worse for him is the amount of just outright malicious actions that we've seen from him. From the plethora of stuff we saw before his banning, to the PM he sent ria from a gimmick, he's proven that he's looking to hurt the site and the staff. He's toxic to our community and MTGC's, and I don't see why we should let him back.[/quote1] 7 - Arcadic for maximum Internet Rage
The Internet Terrorism Chronicles:
Originally posted by Arcadic on MTGS
You want to handwaive the
obvious bias, but every single time and punuitive action was even suggest against a gutter member, it was a 10 page thread. It was then a 26 page CI thread and another 10 page appeal thread and another 26 page CI thread. When do you simply realize that the staffs time WAS BIASED towards these members? How much of the volunteer time has gone into telling these anarcists and ****throwers off?
The staff is biased because the members of the Gutter are vocal?
The staff has had to bias their time in talking and attempting to reason with these troublemakers for more time that we have on ANY ONE SUBJECT COMBINED in the last year. That freaking includes the sale of the site! The staff should not be concerned with a tiny group of discenting voices for that much of our time. The upper staff has gone from (rightly) not trusting the lower staff with infomation, to (incorrectly) trusting lower staff with information to spending countless hours absorbing the low-blows
and personal attacks made in public. For what? To have them simply come back and cause even more ruckus? Move the **** on. They can appeal when the sun burns out.
I'm done wasting my time listening to their garbage. If you want to continue to waste the MTGS's community's and sites time on 3-5 members, go ahead and waste that time. The site is far bigger than those people, yet somehow we have wasted a year on their pathetic attacks and childishness. I'm at least smart enough to know that when someone spits in my face, not to let them do it again and again. Lets MOVE ON. Show your not biased by MOVING ON. Lets not waste another year of productive work on people who would only tear it down.
Please be civil. This accomplishes nothing.
I'm done being civil with terrorists. They deserve nothing from those of us who care about this site but our malice.[/
quote1] 8 - Megiddo
For out what he can do to people he doesn't like
Originally posted by Megiddo on MTGS
i like banning people because it makes people I don't like go away
9 - and finally mikeyG
For his appreciation of our hard work
Although, let's face it, those Forum Razzies are pretty ****ty.
Originally posted by Galspanic on MTGS
I would still like to see the posts sent over to ( N_S ) and have the Salvation Gutter archived away and replaced with a link to MTGC.
Thank you for all the lies. Another fine display of integrity by iridium
I'm inclined towards Galspanic because I accused him of playing good cop to his face over the years at Sally and here, and then embarrassingly he admitted it in the mod lounge
But the how to avoid trolling thread... Deer god
Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.
Post #6 gets it. I almost voted Arcadic because terrorists, but repeated displays of ignorance about the true meaning of the word "malicious" and that concern about us really tipped the balance.
[quote1=ExpiredRascals;9652079:
