Gone Postal Mafia - Game Over - Scum Win

[hamfactorial]

come on mod, just tell me who scum is

[Wraith223]

Also I'm Mr. Zip, speed writer

I can send an extra message each night

Sent none both nights

Why? Besides you don't talk much. I am partly concerned that you are scared of being caught by red or another player in a lie or some tell in your mail. When I look at from your perspective, the day 1 wagon was either you or rcw. Thus I could see a reason to not contact anyone as they all saw you as scum.

Not wanting to contact anyone, serious lurking, and somehow evading a letter bomb is not screaming town to me. You are hard to read though.

Do we still think LMD is scum? He has claimed an ability that is counter intuitive to his play style if that is to be believed. He could have claimed this ability as a play on our psych reads of
him. An interesting play if that is the case. He claims to not use it and it could be justified as we haven't given him any town reads as of late. At worst he is scum trying to claim an ability than can only be verified if he survives a lynch and night. At best he is passive town that has been targeted by lurk hunters. A vote on LMD seems a 50/50 chance of him being scum based on past play and results of ham's bomb. Any other thoughts I might have missed?

[hamfactorial]

Of those here, LMD is the one who has the biggest dark cloud hanging over him. He's done nothing overtly scummy, but the lurking, passive play, and the failed vig shot makes me very reluctant to consider him town.

If he's actually just a very low key town player and a victim of clever scum night actions, I'm sorry. I wasn't able to unravel the mechanism by which they did it, so I'm going with Occam's Razor. Pie's death letter mentioned the "counterwagon to scum" argument being the only reason for not wanting him dead. I feel the same.

Given 6 townies and 5 to lynch, it will be hard for scum to get a mislynch without being on the wagon unless we manage to WIFOM our way to lynching LMD with an all-town wagon (obviously he wouldn't self-vote) while 2 scum park their votes elsewhere or on each other to distance (Red vs. Wraith, for example).

The simpler option is that scum will be on the wagon, so
finding them tomorrow should be easier.

I'll vote LMD unless anyone has any more they'd like discuss. Waiting on C_P mostly, since he's the clear.

[Wraith223]

Of those here, LMD is the one who has the biggest dark cloud hanging over him. He's done nothing overtly scummy, but the lurking, passive play, and the failed vig shot makes me very reluctant to consider him town.

If he's actually just a very low key town player and a victim of clever scum night actions, I'm sorry. I wasn't able to unravel the mechanism by which they did it, so I'm going with Occam's Razor. Pie's death letter mentioned the "counterwagon to scum" argument being the only reason for not wanting him dead. I feel the same.

Given 6 townies and 5 to lynch, it will be hard for scum to get a mislynch without being on the wagon unless we manage to WIFOM our way to lynching LMD with an all-town wagon (obviously he wouldn't self-
vote) while 2 scum park their votes elsewhere or on each other to distance (Red vs. Wraith, for example).

The simpler option is that scum will be on the wagon, so finding them tomorrow should be easier.

I'll vote LMD unless anyone has any more they'd like discuss. Waiting on C_P mostly, since he's the clear.

Same here. I am very curious on Iso's fast vote, and as well on Red's interaction or lack there of so far.
I have noted two people that were voted for by RCW with a short wagon or full wagon:
Ham (Rez made and still unsure on the grounds for his wagon, seemed like a scum quick vote to me)
Red (Imopen2 and Pie voted for him, thus I think it was easy vote with little or no info from day 1)

Folks he never voted for when he could have:
Jack (tiny wagon, considered insignificant now)
LMD (RCW coul have hammered or at least put LMD at L-2 but he never did)

Anyone else have anything to add? I am building fence right now and checking this game during breaks, thus
may have missed something while speed reading. An LMD lynch at this moment would be for information and purely based on 2 counts of poor circumstances or association (day 1 wagon that RCW did not vote on and somehow dodging Ham's claimed bomb).

[Iso]

Since this is the only thing I haven't claimed, I'm Agent K from Men In Black, although I don't remember any of my time as an agent because I got de-neuralized by J. So I'm a mailman.

[Iso]

Let's see...so, if LMD flips town, I think it'll be fair to lynch the Cloak dude (I don't remember who that was) simply on the grounds that he was probably lying about his ability use if LMD is town.

Putting that out there in case I die.

[Cursed_Pride]

Let's see...so, if LMD flips town, I think it'll be fair to lynch the Cloak dude (I don't remember who that was) simply on the grounds that he was probably lying about his ability use if LMD is town.

Putting that out there in case I die.

-Why would you die if your slot has been gone for most of the game and on a list of PoE targets?

His ability is confirmed (Dechs Kaison sent mail to hamfactorial, who was cloaked by Jack, and it got sent back to him). Who would you lynch instead, if LMD flips town?

[Iso]

Let's see...so, if LMD flips town, I think it'll be fair to lynch the Cloak dude (I don't remember who that was) simply on the grounds that he was probably lying about his ability use if LMD is town.

Putting that out there in case I die.

-Why would you die if your slot has been gone for most of the game and on a list of PoE targets?

His ability is confirmed (Dechs Kaison sent mail to hamfactorial, who was cloaked by Jack, and it got sent back to him). Who would you lynch instead, if LMD flips town?

I'm pretty awesome.

And there is no "instead" - I
would lynch Jack.

[Mcdonalds]

Can we lynch someone, I'm thoroughly bored with this

vote wraith

[hamfactorial]

LMD:

Did you get my letter?

[Mcdonalds]

No

[Wraith223]

Can we lynch someone, I'm thoroughly bored with this

vote wraith

No read? No Scum hunting? Just bored? You are not helpful to town at all.

Vote LMD

[Wraith223]

RCW never voted for you either and had little contact. Red is in my town pile now after re-reading day one.

[Mcdonalds]

Given in prolly being lynched

My guess for scum is

wraith/jack:one of them is lying or is not town, if we're to assume ham is town neither of those is very pro town, my inclination is wraith, he slow rolled day 1, hammered day 2, and keeps trying to make connections between me and rcw that frankly aren't there.

Dechs: he's bugged me since he made two long posts stating he had read the full game, admitted the town was lost, then Sheeps Rez.

[Mcdonalds]

Wtf does little contact mean, I've barely talked to iso, pie or c_p, they can't all be scum

[hamfactorial]

LMD:

What do you see wrong with Jack's behavior?

He voted for you forever ago, but hasn't contributed much since. He also hasn't scum hunted at all, and the delayed "GGtap" thing with Wraith set off lots of alarm bells.

I'd like to dig more, since it looks like he got an early position on your wagon to avoid suspicion and has been content to sit there.

[RedNihilist]

Jack's disappearance is not really nice from him.

[Mcdonalds]

I don't disagree, I just feel its wraith or jack, not both

[hamfactorial]

Is it just a gut read, or is there something you've seen? Either Jack or Wraith, I've been suspicious of them both at various times this game, so please share.

[Dechs Kaison]

I don't buy that Jack is scum at all. I'm convinced he did protect Ham when Ham was trying to bomb someone. Ham's target was unknown, but it was down to a small selection. The only way Jack could be scum and have still protected Ham is if he knew all of those targets (four if I'm remembering correctly) were town or he was just willing to play the odds and risk losing his teammate.

I'm just not buying that. If you want me to lynch Jack, that's going to be a hard sell.

[hamfactorial]

One of your 4 scenarios was that Jack could be a scum jailer. Now you don't buy that he could be scum?

[Dechs Kaison]

Unless Jack/Ham is the scum team and Pie was just a night kill and there never was a mail bomb. But that leaves too many things unexplained, like how did the mail get screwed up?

[Dechs Kaison]

One of your 4 scenarios was that Jack could be a scum jailer. Now you don't buy that he could be scum?

Shit, that's right, jailer does still work. That does perfectly explain why your bomb doesn't go off and why you couldn't have been mailed.

Sorry, there's a lot to keep track of.

[Dechs Kaison]

Can we lynch someone, I'm thoroughly bored with this

vote wraith

No read? No Scum hunting? Just bored? You are not helpful to town at all.

Vote LMD

Well, at least that's one way to avoid being the hammer two days in a row. Be the guy to put him at L-1.

Ham, you wanted a wagon to analyze and you were willing to lynch LMD. Now's the time to make good on your word.

[hamfactorial]

One of your 4 scenarios was that Jack could be a scum jailer. Now you don't buy that he could be scum?

Shit, that's right, jailer does still work. That does perfectly explain why your bomb doesn't go off and why you couldn't have been mailed.

Sorry, there's a lot to keep track of.

It's cool. What's bothering me about LMD's claim is that a scum player usually claims a PR, not something effectively useless like a double voter.

Pedit: I'm going to do a re-read and focus on Jack. If I can find something worthwhile, I'll present it. If not, I'll hammer
LMD. I'll have a few free hours tonight after the gym.

[Dechs Kaison]

We already have a ton of power roles already claimed, though. Wouldn't claiming a duplicate cast even more suspicion?

[hamfactorial]

Note that this is NOT an invitation to hammer while I'm away and then call me scum again, you fucks.

[hamfactorial]

We already have a ton of power roles already claimed, though. Wouldn't claiming a duplicate cast even more suspicion?

There are plenty of possible power roles on the MS wiki, and I'm sure LMD could make up a convincing one with mail flavor attached.

[Dechs Kaison]

Note that this is NOT an invitation to hammer while I'm away and then call me scum again, you fucks.

That card's already been played. I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to try it again.

[hamfactorial]

Let's hope!

[Mcdonalds]

League and Dota have taught me that if it's stupid enough to work once, it'll work twice so I wouldn't be so sure....

[Dechs Kaison]

I mean, the only guy who could pull it off without getting suspicion thrown on him is C_P.

Actually, that's the absolute best thing CP could do right now, isn't it? If he jumps on the lynch wagon, then it means there's only four people to analyze.

[Wraith223]

I don't buy that Jack is scum at all. I'm convinced he did protect Ham when Ham was trying to bomb someone. Ham's target was unknown, but it was down to a small selection. The only way Jack could be scum and have still protected Ham is if he knew all of those targets (four if I'm remembering correctly) were town or he was just willing to play the odds and risk losing his teammate.

I'm just not buying that. If you want me to lynch Jack, that's going to be a hard sell.

So.....who is scum in your list? Based on my re-read, Red and Ham were the wagons rcw voted for. Red was early and I think that clears him in my opinion. Ham has never really given me scum tell, thus he is town to me. Jack is a mystery to me as his clams could be false
or true with simple logic. Either he protected ham or did not. Jack's town standing unclear and subjective. The whole mail matter could a confusing trap scum made and that is why I posted Pie's mail to me as soon as I got it. Scum is messing with the mail globally and personally. They have to be as counter town abilities would require mischievous abilities. That's what my gut says.

Out of curiosity, if Red thinks I am scum; why didn't he watch me?

[Mcdonalds]

Is it just a gut read, or is there something you've seen? Either Jack or Wraith, I've been suspicious of them both at various times this game, so please share.

Gut, wraith has simply drawn my attention more, one of his posts at the end of day 1 stating he didn't want the day to in a no lynch....despite me never accusing him of that, came off as off a boy

[Wraith223]

Is it just a gut read, or is there something you've seen? Either Jack or Wraith, I've been suspicious of them both at various times this game, so please share.

Gut, wraith has simply drawn my attention more, one of his posts at the end of day 1 stating he didn't want the day to in a no lynch....despite me never accusing him of that, came off as off a boy

I believe or Jack or Red asked me if I wanted a no lynch day, thus your point here is....what?. To answer your question on "little contact", specifically yours and his contacts between each other
are severely low via posts.

I think the vote should be up to Ham, Red, or C_P to hammer.

Well I have to drive to Corpus Christi, Texas again to take care of grandparents again for the weekend. Probably won't get to a computer till tomorrow morning after 3pm today.

[Kazekirimaru]

Votecount!

Wraith223(2) - Red Nihilist, Lord_Mcdonalds
Lord_McDonalds(4) - Dechs Kaison, Jack, Iso, Wraith223 L-1!
RedNihilist(0)
Dechs Kaison(0)
Jack(0)
Iso(0)
Cursed Pride(0)
Hamfactorial(0)

Not Voting - Cursed Pride, Hamfactorial

With 8 Alive it is 5 to Lynch

[Dechs Kaison]

I don't buy that Jack is scum at all. I'm convinced he did protect Ham when Ham was trying to bomb someone. Ham's target was unknown, but it was down to a small selection. The only way Jack could be scum and have still protected Ham is if he knew all of those targets (four if I'm remembering correctly) were town or he was just willing to play the odds and risk losing his teammate.

I'm just not buying that. If you want me to lynch Jack, that's going to be a hard sell.

So.....who is scum in your list? Based on my re-read, Red and Ham were the wagons rcw voted for. Red was early
and I think that clears him in my opinion. Ham has never really given me scum tell, thus he is town to me. Jack is a mystery to me as his clams could be false or true with simple logic. Either he protected ham or did not. Jack's town standing unclear and subjective. The whole mail matter could a confusing trap scum made and that is why I posted Pie's mail to me as soon as I got it. Scum is messing with the mail globally and personally. They have to be as counter town abilities would require mischievous abilities. That's what my gut says.

You missed my post rescinding the JackTown judgement. Jack could be a Jailer, which does the job of making Ham look protected while simultaneously blocking the mail bomb. If that's the case, then he could very well be scum. I do find this less than likely, because if he did jail Ham, the best follow up if he is scum is to point the finger at Ham and try to get him lynched because "I protected you, what the hell happened you lying scumy scum?&
quot; Jack didn't do that, but then again, maybe he didn't because it would have been too obvious. WIFOM, blah blah blah. End result: Jack could be scum, but he's not my number one suspect.

My number one suspect is LMD, who has my vote. I'm extremely confident in my vote on LMD. I've run through my thoughts on this well enough, but to sum up, it's a logical conclusion reached by the actions of last night. What we know is that Jack made Ham untargetable and that Ham sent a bomb to LMD and that LMD didn't head asplode. I personally verified Ham's untargetable-ness. This leads me to believe that LMD was somehow protected overnight, either by his own ability or his scum buddy's.

Here's the really cool thing, though, and it's why I'm so confident in my vote. If LMD does flip town, then that gives us a ton of information to go on for finding out who the real scum is. I don't want to start lining up tomorrow's lynch until we have all that information in, though.

[hamfactorial]

I did a Jack ISO which only made me think he's town. His lurkiness today doesn't undo all his town posts from the first 2 days.

Then I read this -

rcwraspy (7): InflatablePie, Cursed_Pride, imopen2, RedNihilist, Jack, Wraith223, Mogadishu Jones

I'm town
CP is town
imopen is dead!town
Red claimed mail-Watcher
Jack is null
Wraith is town
Moga is town

so either we lynch Jack or Red today.

vote Jack

I am curious as to why imopen died. Tempted to say that scum weren't on the wagon so they left conf-town on it early because WIFOM.

also he's probably yelling at me in the deadQT, if there is one, for what I wrote him. it's really not important; I couldn't think of anything useful to send last night so I got all
cheeky with him.

(sorry for lurking, been busy IRL. should have more time next week but I'll be visiting North Carolina so maybe not)

Dudes, what the fuck?

Read this part again -

also he's probably yelling at me in the deadQT, if there is one, for what I wrote him. it's really not important; I couldn't think of anything useful to send last night so I got all cheeky with him.

This happened on day 2, so Pie could have only written 1 letter at this point. He sent a letter to io2, which was never posted since they both died on successive nights.

We have 2 letters claimed to have been written by Pie, one self-signed and received by Wraith, and the other received by Jack and signed GGtap.

When would he have the chance to write a third letter?

Dechs confirmed that both letters were written by Pie, but that's impossible. His role PM has no double mail ability.

Dechs you scummy fuck.

Vote Dechs Kaison

nPedit: and now he's trying to line up tomorrow's lynch. Nice.

[hamfactorial]

And now the great follow-up question: which letter is fake and who wrote it?

[Dechs Kaison]

Pedit: and now he's trying to line up tomorrow's lynch. Nice.

I specifically said I'm not trying to line up tomorrow's lynch. I said if LMD flips town, it gives us a lot of information to make that decision. Please don't misrepresent me.