[Primer] UR Delver

[rcwraspy]

Having not played this yet, I have a question for those of you that have. Is the 1 mana that problematic vs Bogles that Hibernation is better than Aetherize? I understand that Bogles puts you on a very fast clock, but the ability to remove all of their enchantments with an Aetherize while still returning their dude(s) just seems way too good. Thanks!

I run 19, some run 20, but a lot of lists run 18 lands. That's just far too few to be able to rely on a 4-drop in a difficult matchup, even with all our cantrips.

[Jedi]

For reference, here's LSV's latest list:

[deck=LSV's UR Delver #2]Lands (19)
6 Island
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls

Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer

Other Spells (27)
1 Electrolyze
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Remand
4 Serum Visions
3 Spell Snare
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Vapor Snag

Sideboard (15)
1 Blood Moon
3 Combust
2 Counterflux
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Shattering Spree
1 Spell Pierce
2 Threads of Disloyalty[/deck]

(http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... -delver-2/)

[Jedi]

Anyone know why there's an empty column in the deck I posted?

[BlakLanner]

I get that all the time as well. Never figured out how to remove it or shift cards over to that side.

[Valdarith]

Maybe lands go after Creatures and Spells? That's how I've always done it and I've never had a problem.

I think LSVs list is okay but I feel like he overrates Spell Snare and underrates Remand. I suppose it's a concession to Tarmogoyf but I feel like there are better ways to attack Goyf decks.

[BlakLanner]

I have never been overly fond of Spell Snare. It just feels way too narrow when you have to face so many different threats.

I will try moving my lands to the end and see if that works.

Edit - Just modified one of my posts and it didn't seem to change.
Edit 2 - I figured it out. You need to have "creatures, spells, land, etc" headers for it to split onto the second column.

[Valdarith]

For reference, here's LSV's latest list:

[deck=LSV's UR Delver #2]
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer

Other Spells (27)
1 Electrolyze
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Remand
4 Serum Visions
3 Spell Snare
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Vapor Snag

Lands (19)
6 Island
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls

Sideboard (15)
1 Blood Moon
3 Combust
2 Counterflux
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Shattering Spree
1 Spell Pierce
2 Threads of Disloyalty[/deck]

(http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... -delver-2/)

Fixed
it for you.

[Longtoe]

I will tell you what it is a piece of shit against burn. I have played it and it is pretty good against the field until you go into a daily run into multiple BR, mono R or WR burn decks.

[Valdarith]

I will tell you what it is a piece of shit against burn. I have played it and it is pretty good against the field until you go into a daily run into multiple BR, mono R or WR burn decks.

Mind posting your list? The burn matchup shouldn't be THAT bad as long as you have the correct 75 (read: my 75).

[zemanjaski]

Tempo should wreck Burn actually. I'm working on UG Tempo right now, but it isn't dissimilar to these decks and ideas.

[rcwraspy]

're: spell snare. It's actually great against quite a lot of decks. Goyf, snapcaster, cranial plating, arcbound ravager, merfolk, Bob, opposing counter magic, and more.

[zemanjaski]

I'd run 4 Spell Snare; it's perfectly positioned in modern.

[Pedros]

Tempo should wreck Burn actually. I'm working on UG Tempo right now, but it isn't dissimilar to these decks and ideas.

Interested, however cant find creatures other than Delver, Goyf, Snapcaster, Clique (maybe it's enough? 15 creatures seems fine to be honest). Dont tell me you are trying Quirion Dryad in modern?

UG lacks removal, so I guess you have some kind of tempo removal such as Vapor Snags? Throw in some dismembers? Rest fill up with counterspells and maybe some draw? (Think twice for instant speed?)

I am intrigued.

[Platypus]

I played against a UG Delver deck in our Modern event a few week ago. Don't have the decklist, but creatures were Delver, Goyf, Snapcaster, Clique at least. Dismember I think as removal. Don't know where it ended up though.

[zemanjaski]

4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf

That's it.

[zemanjaski]

Tempo should wreck Burn actually. I'm working on UG Tempo right now, but it isn't dissimilar to these decks and ideas.

Interested, however cant find creatures other than Delver, Goyf, Snapcaster, Clique (maybe it's enough? 15 creatures seems fine to be honest). Dont tell me you are trying Quirion Dryad in modern?

UG lacks removal, so I guess you have some kind of tempo removal such as Vapor Snags? Throw in some dismembers? Rest fill up with counterspells and maybe some draw? (Think twice for instant speed?)

I am intrigued.

We're tweaking numbers, but basically:

n4 Snapcaster
4 Tarmogoyf

3 Vedalken Shackles

Counterspells (4 Cryptic Command, 4 Remand, 4 Spell Snare)
Card Draw (Serum Visions, Think Twice)
Vapor Snag x 4

[Longtoe]

val my list is nearly LSV's with the exception of an additional blood moon in the board in lieu of one threads.

[Valdarith]

His list seems properly equipped to have a decent burn matchup. What is your sideboarding like, and what is your general strategy against them?

[Platypus]

LSV talks UR Delver today: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/A ... ily/td/297

[Valdarith]

LSV talks UR Delver today: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/A ... ily/td/297

Very good article. Regarding the Hexproof matchup, some discussion could be had on Spellskite vs Hibernation. I don't feel like Hexproof can beat either card, but it's not obvious to me which is better. Does Hexproof have artifact hate? If so, I'd lean toward Hibernation.

[hamfactorial]

While playing my Boros deck against hexproof this morning, I slammed a Spellskite only to be met with a Stony Silence in game 3. He spent the turn turning off my Skite instead of suiting up his dude, so I got him with Blood Moon on the next turn.

If hexproof is running Stony to handle Affinity (they should, it's a great foil), Spellskite's utility goes down somewhat.

Hibernation also has good game against that retarded green ramp Genesis Wave deck.

[Valdarith]

It's also an instant, flips Delver, and can be flashed back with Snapcaster Mage.

[LP, of the Fires]

don't know about ya'll nigga's but I be packing cryptics.

[Longtoe]

how many mana you run?

[hamfactorial]

Nigga curves out to 4 er'day

[LP, of the Fires]

I think 20. Having 8 1 mana cantrips plus snapcasters and miscellaneous cantrips along the way makes hitting land drops a non-issue.

[Longtoe]

Did an 8 man with the thing and lost to faeries in the finals. Is this matchup favorable for us? I wasn't sure how to even board.

[Platypus]

The times I tried the deck I always had trouble with blue-based aggro decks, like Merfolk and Faeries.

[rcwraspy]

The times I tried the deck I always had trouble with blue-based aggro decks, like Merfolk and Faeries.

Hrm, what's your list? I feel like we're favored against those decks, and also favored against Affinity and Burn. I've had a hard time with Zoo because even their 1-drops have 3 toughness and we only have 4 3dmg spells. With Merfolk and Faeries, they're also tempo-ish decks but you have to understand how they differ from our deck. Merfolk is aggro with some tempo cards, and Faeries largely other way around. So the "who's the beatdown" question is very important in each matchup and really in each turn. For Merfolk, I like to load up on Spell Snare, burn cards, Grim Lavamancer, and
even Combust can come in handy if they got off to too fast a start. You'll often have an opportunity to kill lords before they can bring in other lords, or on the stack. They'll try to jam Spreading Seas on your red sources, but make sure to leave up Remand, Leak, Pierce, or Snare for that. Remanding a Seas is actually a skill-tester for the opponent. Many opponents just try to keep jamming it despite me Remanding it each turn, and they can't do much else that turn. Yes, bad plays, but let them make them if they're going to.

I don't have as much experience with Faeries but I feel like you need to start with an aggressive mentality and adjust from there as necessary.

I have a question of my own for the thread. I've been running 3x Hurkyl's Recall in the board (probably the reason I like the Affinity matchup) but I want to diversify that a bit. I'd like to change to 1 Hurkyl's, 1 Ancient Grudge[/c:
3cmpau95], and one [c]Shatterstorm. But now I'm wondering about the mana base. Here's what I'm currently running:

[deck]
Lands - 19
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
6 Island
[/deck]

With the Grudge I want to introduce a green source and with the Shatterstorm I feel like I want 1 more Red source. So on the surface it makes sense to swap an Island for a Stomping Ground. However, this deck keeps 1-land hands fairly often and it absolutely requires blue sources in the opener. If I have 2 lands that can't tap for blue in a 19 land deck, is that hurting myself more than helping?

[Platypus]

I think this was the latest list:

[deck]Lands (19)
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Mutavault
2 Mountain
7 Island

Creatures (13)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer

Artifacts (2)
2 Runechanter's Pike

Spells (26)
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Remand
4 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare

Sideboard (15)
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Combust
2 Forked Bolt
2 Magma Spray
2 Blood Moon
2 Counterflux
3 Hibernation
[/deck]

However, I didn't play any Merfolk or Faeries decks at that event, so I must have remembered an earlier version. But I can't remember what was in that version, could have been only 2 Snapcaster Mages for instance. And inexperience with the deck probably was a factor as well. So that comment about those decks might not be worth anything, really.

[Valdarith]

My current list:

[deck]
Creatures (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage

Spells (30)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Vapor Snag
2 Incinerate
4 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Runechanter's Pike
2 Electrolyze

Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Breeding Pool
4 Island
2 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Flame Slash
2 Magma Spray
2 Dispel
2 Flashfreeze
2 Combust
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Hibernation
1 Counterflux
[/deck]

I'm considering testing out Grim Lavamancer in place of Runechanter's Pike since I haven't tried it out yet and others seem to be having success with it. I'm not sure if six fetches will be enough to support him but there are tons of cantrips so that should help out. I've had a lot of success with Pike so I'm hesitant to take it out but I need to see for myself if the Lavaman can get there.

[Sasky]

This has become my deck of choice for the PTQ as of late. I play a lot of modern and I think this is one of the better choices without being cheesy like playing Twin or Storm. I'm playing LSV's list from the mothership and it has been awesome.

Lavaman is insanely good if the people in your LGS play proper decks and not random rogue brews. He beats up most of the meta barring creature-light combo decks.

[Valdarith]

Who has two thumbs and gets to go to FNM this Friday? This guy!

And guess what the format is?

[deck]
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage

Spells (28)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Vapor Snag
2 Incinerate
4 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Electrolyze

Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Breeding Pool
4 Island
2 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Flame Slash
2 Magma Spray
2 Dispel
2 Flashfreeze
2 Combust
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Hibernation
1 Counterflux
[/deck]

I'm making the switch to Lavaman this Friday. My only uncertainties are whether I should run one or two Flame Slash. I don't care about Spellskite as much against Affinity because I'm boarding in Ancient Grudge anyway, but against decks like Twin that board in Spellskite against Delver, Flame Slash is a good card to
have. Honestly though I don't expect much Twin at all as the vast majority of decks run around here are built on a budget, so I think going to a singleton Flame Slash to make room for a third Hibernation is the best choice. Budget Bogles is exactly the kind of deck I'd expect to see on Friday.

[Jack]

How have you liked spell pierce on the main? My thought is that I'd love it for game 1 vs a few decks, but absolutely hate it against others (mainly pod, where game 1 is close).

[Valdarith]

It's a necessary evil to hedge against combo and control. It's also decent against Affinity in game one if it's in your opener since you can nab Cranial Plating sometimes.

I may swap out the single Flame Slash for a third Grim Lavamancer too. I wanted it because Zoo is a big thing here and I needed a one mana spell that could kill three toughness critters while also being decent against other decks like Twin and Jund, but I think six of those effects maindeck should be enough.

[Jack]

I really don't think 3 Lavamancer is a good decision. I can see incinerate as a meta call, but you really only want 1 Lavamancer at a time, and he doesn't fit too well with any curve.

If you have a free slot in the side, I think it would be a good idea to throw in a miser's copy of blood moon.

[Valdarith]

I'd play Blood Moon at a more established meta, but here decks with less greedy manabases tend to be the norm. Soul Sisters, GR Zoo, Affinity, and Bx tend to be the most popular decks.

I wasn't a fan of the third Lavamancer idea at first either but then I saw LSV have some success with it postboard in his CFB video series. I can say with absolute certainty that I want to see Lavaman in my opening seven as much as possible against decks like Soul Sisters and Affinity, so running three at the risk of drawing multiples is a chance I'm willing to take.

[Valdarith]

Made top 4 at FNM last week, going 3-1-1 in swiss and winning my top 8 match.

[deck]
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage

Spells (28)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Vapor Snag
2 Incinerate
4 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Electrolyze

Lands (18)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Breeding Pool
4 Island
2 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Magma Spray
2 Dispel
2 Flashfreeze
2 Combust
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Hibernation
1 Counterflux
[/deck]

Match 1 vs UB Mill (1-2 loss): this was the strangest match of Magic I ever played. My opponent was on a deck with no removal and cards like Mind Funeral, Breaking / Entering, Archive Trap, Surgical Extraction, and Extirpate maindeck. I lost game one after keeping a slow hand and my opponent milling 30 off a Mind Funeral.

OUT: 1
Electrolyze, 3 Vapor Snag
IN: 2 Dispel, 1 Grim Lavamancer, 1 Counterflux

Game two was much easier as I got an aggressive start and ended the game quickly. Game three I mull to six and snap keep a hand with two Delvers and four lands. I proceed to topdeck lands for five (!) straight turns in unbelievable fashion.

Match 2 vs Tempered Steel (2-1 win): He's running Puresteel Paladin, Precinct Captain, Mirran Crusader, and lots of equipment. I win game one off the back of an early Delver while holding off his guys with removal.

OUT: 2 Electrolyze, 3 Vapor Snag, 2 Spell Pierce
IN: 1 Grim Lavamancer, 2 Magma Spray, 2 Ancient Grudge, 2 Combust

I lose game two after he gets a fast start and find multiple Puresteel Paladins. Game three is long and grindy but I win after resolving a Grim Lavamancer later in the game and he goes to town on his dudes.

Match 3 vs Ninja Bear Delver (2-0 win): I was just poking fun at a friend for running this deck, so of course I get paired against him. We always have
interesting games and I consider him one of the best players in the area. That said, this matchup was probably the easiest win I've had over him, no doubt because Ninja Bear Delver is a shit deck and stands no chance against UR Delver. He's on the play game one and gets an early start with Delver but it doesn't flip for two turns and I am able to even the board state with a Delver and Young Pyromancer. The turning point in the game comes when he plays a Snapcaster Mage on turn four to Vapor Snag my Young Pyromancer and I respond with an Electrolyze the following turn for the three for one. Grim Lavamancer joins the party soon after and that's all she wrote.

OUT: 3 Vapor Snag, 2 Incinerate, 2 Electrolyze
IN: 1 Grim Lavamancer, 2 Magma Spray, 2 Dispel, 2 Combust

The postboard plan against any Delver deck is to play more mana efficient spells and play the control role early, attempting to land a Young Pyromancer or Grim Lavamancer and ride it to victory. Electrolyze is a bit mana intensive and
counter wars are important postboard so I take it out here despite it being awesome against Phantasmal Bear and Snapcaster Mage. Brining in the third Lavamancer makes up for the potential loss in card advantage Electrolyze offers. Game two is similar to game one except I get ahead a lot earlier due to playing Grim Lavamancer, then casting Probe and seeing Disrupting Shoal, Cryptic Command, Remand, and lands. I play around his Shoal for awhile and keep his board clear with Lavamancer and slowly whittle away at his life total until I overwhelm the board and he loses.

Match 4 vs White Weenie (2-0 win): easiest match of the night. I'm pretty sure this guy brought his Standard deck to a Modern event because I saw no non-Standard cards in the deck. I won't even go into the match.

Match 5 vs Mono Green Beatdown (draw): I was in 8th place with 9 points with everyone below me having 6, so I was safe to draw into top 8. He's on a deck with Experiment One, Dryad Militant, Scavenging Ooze, Strangleroot Geist,
Leatherback Baloth, Vines of Vastwood, Aspect of Hydra, Rancor, and a fun-of Hurricane he's been owning people with all night. We play three preboard games for fun and I go 1-2, but I imagine this matchup is much more favorable to me postboard with access to three Hibernation, two Flashfreeze, and two Dispel.

Top 8 match vs Living End (2-0 win): this is about as close to a bye as you can get as UR Delver without actually getting a bye. Living End has real problems with Remand decks or any deck with countermagic for that matter. This was actually my first time playing against Living End, but I knew the basic strategy of the deck. The key to the match is not to get too greedy when the opponent has open mana to ensure he can't cast Violent Outburst at instant speed. Game one I present an early clock and ride my countermagic to victory.

OUT: 2 Electrolyze, 3 Vapor Snag
IN: 2 Dispel, 2 Flashfreeze, 1 Counterflux

Game two is a bit slower than game one. I keep a hand with a Delver, Grim Lavamancer and a
lot of countermagic. He evokes Shriekmaw and I attempt to counter it but he has Ricochet Trap to change the target of the counter to itself. He kills my Delver with the Shriekmaw after I get 3 damage off it. He tries to resolve a couple of cascade spells but I take care of them with a Remand followed by a couple of counterspells. I continue getting damage in with Grim Lavamancer and he starts hardcasting some of his creatures which I take care of with burn spells and Grim Lavamancer. He is facing lethal next turn and is forced to cast Demonic Dread. I allow it to resolve with a Remand and a Dispel in hand. He cascades into Living End, I Remand it, he casts Ricochet Trap, and I Dispel it for the win.

ALL STAR OF THE NIGHT: Grim Lavamancer. This is the first time I've had the pleasure of playing Grim Lavamancer, and boy do I love this card. He did SO MUCH WORK! It's borderline unfair in my meta and I sided it in so much (every game actually) that I'm considering moving the third to the main, probably at
the expense of an Electrolyze.

WORST CARD OF THE NIGHT: nothing. Every card performed well. The only card I didn't board in was Hibernation which I would have boarded in against the mono green deck I drew with.

PROPOSED CHANGES: I think the 75 here is pretty solid for my meta, though it's beginning to develop quite a bit as more people have started to fill their decks out with fetchlands and are moving toward more recognized decks like Splinter Twin, Pod, Storm, etc. As such I'm considering the addition of Spell Snare to the main and taking out either two Incinerates or one Incinerate and another card (maybe a Remand). I like having what's effectively a fifth Lightning Bolt in the deck to hedge against x/3s but I could be paranoid. I'm seriously considering the third Lavamancer in the main because of just how good he was for me this night. I was always happy to see him in my opener and it gives me another solid turn one play which this deck needs help with.

[MattT]

I´ve played this deck for a while going into Modern with much the same deck as everyone else, but the sideboard has Annul vs Twin, Affinity & Auras. Additionally I´m trying Slagstorm vs BW Tokens and (later answer to) Affinity as Shatterstorm feels a tad to slow and tokens buffs faster than a 1 damage thing like Izzet Staticaster or similar can catch.

The main joy of the deck is the plasticity imo. I really like it.

[Valdarith]

I don't like Annul. I prefer Combust against Twin since it cannot be countered and does exactly the same thing against Twin that Annul does, not to mention that Twin can just as easily side out the combo against you, leaving Annul dead in your hand. Furthermore, Affinity spits its hand out so quickly at times that the usefulness of Annul is only relevant within the first couple of turns, making it a terrible topdeck. And against Auras you're pretty much forced to hold it for Coronet whereas a card like Hibernation just wins the game.

As for Slagstorm, I think Anger of the Gods and Volcanic Fallout are more robust answers.

I think the best thing about this deck is just how tunable it is to a certain meta. The entire 75 prefers robust answers. Kind of a jack-of-all-trades, king of nothing approach.