[Primer] Boros Burn

[zemanjaski]

How's fated been? I'm running a Brimaz in that spot.

[zemanjaski]

I agree with Phoenix being sucky / awkward in the mirror. You get tempos too hard so you often can't cast it.

[amcfvieira]

Well I finally managed it. A 4-0 victory in a daily event. this is the list I went with and ill explain the sideboard options that I go with.
[deck]creatures
4 chandra's phoenix
4 young pyromancer

spells
4 boros charm
4 skullcrack
3 searing blood
3 shock
4 lightning strike
4 magma jet
4 warleader's helix

enchantments
1 banishing light
2 chained to the rocks

lands
1 temple of malice
1 temple of silence
4 sacred foundry
8 mountain
3 mutavault
4 temple of triumph

sideboard
4 mizzium mortars
2 chained to the rocks
2 glare of heresy
3 chandra pyromancer
4 eidolon of the great revel[/deck]

You miss 3 lands in your list. Do you use Boros Guildgate or Mana Confluence?

[magicdownunder]

How's fated been? I'm running a Brimaz in that spot.

Its been good - lots of Dragons, Hydras, Barons and Ghosts online right now (BWx and Jund monsters have been doing rather well for themselves...).

[Lightning_Dolt]

@Lightning_Dolt: Any updates with your list? I'm curious about the direction your taking for your next event based on these last few pages (I'm trying to work out if HK1997, Dauntless, Purp and myself are only ones left with Revel in our 75).

I haven't played standard since Game Day (busy). I will be running some number of Glare of Heresy and testing Keening Aparation though.

[Nezeru]

Hey, I played the YP version today in a GPT and finished in 2nd. My matchups were:
Round 1: 2-0 vs Twinflame combo deck (Axebane Guardian + Mnemonic Wall + Twinflame + any damage spell or Opportunity)
This was very easy and is not worth mentioning really.
Round 2: 2-0 vs Bant Aggro (mono-white aggro splashing green for Fleecemane/Voice and blue for Dsphere)
Round 3: 0-2 vs GR Monsters (lost both games to Stormbreath + Blood, got my revenge on him in top8)
Round 4: 2-0 vs Jund Monsters
Round 5: ID into top8
Top8: 2-0 vs Bg Devotion
Top4: 2-0 vs RG Monsters (didn't board out all 4 Skullcracks this time)
Final: 1-2 vs Bg Devotion. Game 1 I crushed, game 2 he won with Whip + 2 Duress and 2 Thoughtseize early, game 3 he won with Whip + 4 Duress in the first 3 turns when I had no creatures. This was annoying as he had 1 Whip and this is a good matchup.

List was MDU's -1 Boros Guildgate +1 Mana Confluence and I
mostly followed his sideboard plans but changed the Monsters one because every Monsters player here has 3-4 Nylea's Disciples on the board.

[magicdownunder]

Hey, I played the YP version today in a GPT and finished in 2nd. My matchups were:
Round 1: 2-0 vs Twinflame combo deck (Axebane Guardian + Mnemonic Wall + Twinflame + any damage spell or Opportunity)
This was very easy and is not worth mentioning really.
Round 2: 2-0 vs Bant Aggro (mono-white aggro splashing green for Fleecemane/Voice and blue for Dsphere)
Round 3: 0-2 vs GR Monsters (lost both games to Stormbreath + Blood, got my revenge on him in top8)
Round 4: 2-0 vs Jund Monsters
Round 5: ID into top8
Top8: 2-0 vs Bg Devotion
Top4: 2-0 vs RG Monsters (didn't board out all 4 Skullcracks this time)
Final: 1-2 vs Bg Devotion. Game 1 I crushed, game 2 he won with Whip + 2 Duress and 2 Thoughtseize early, game 3 he won with Whip + 4 Duress in the first 3 turns
when I had no creatures. This was annoying as he had 1 Whip and this is a good matchup.

List was MDU's -1 Boros Guildgate +1 Mana Confluence and I mostly followed his sideboard plans but changed the Monsters one because every Monsters player here has 3-4 Nylea's Disciples on the board.

Nice!! If the Bg deck is on the Whip or Staff plan, I suggest going with Eidolon of the Great Revel since you'll need to close out the game at a much shorter timeframe.

In regards with Monsters is the Disciples plan something which only RG does or are Jund Monster doing it as well? I havn't really seen it much and I'll love to run some Charms vs Jund Monsters at the very least.

[Valdarith]

It's GR and Jund tech.

[dpaine88]

Congratulations to all who did well this weekend!! I enjoyed reading your reports.

No magic for me this weekend.

Star City Games Providence coming to town this coming weekend tho!!

[cinik]

[deck] Land (23)
2x Boros Guildgate
9x Mountain
3x Mutavault
4x Sacred Foundry
1x Mana Confluence
4x Temple of Triumph

Creatures (8)
4x Chandra's Phoenix
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel

Spells (29)
4x Boros Charm
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
3x Shock
4x Skullcrack
4x Warleader's Helix
3x Chained to the Rocks
3x Searing Blood

Sideboard (15)
2x Wear / Tear
1x Banishing Light
1x Fated Conflagration
1x Reprisal
1x Chained to the Rocks
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Satyr Firedancer
3x Toil / Trouble [/deck]

Hello everyone! I've been reading these forums for a while now and I've finally decided to enter the conversation. This is the list I am currently running after getting a top 4 finish at a local IQ this past weekend. My play group is thoroughly convinced that Great Revel is superior to YP due to the pressure it places on the opponent's life total, YP's susceptibility to cards such
as Golgari Charm and Chandra, Pyromancer, and the idea that "at least Great Revel deals 2 damage to a Mono Black player when he instantly kills it." I have read all the posts in this thread, and I know you guys are probably sick of talking about it, but unfortunately I feel that I am missing something as to why the consensus over the last few pages seems to be that Great Revel is NOT the preferable main deck creature over YP.

From what I understand, Great Revel is better in the UW control, the Mirror, and the Mono Black devotion (at least on the play) matchups. I do believe the Great Revel / Firedancer sideboard combo is weaker vs Junk / BW midrange / GR monsters matchups than the YP / Mortars combo.

If anyone would be kind enough to clear up the misconceptions I'm sure I have, I would truly appreciate it. Also, I would be grateful for any feedback on the mana base (20 red sources, 11 white sources, 13 untapped red sources) and the contents of the sideboard. Finally, I should mention that I
play at the FNM / IQ / Super IQ level, so I am aware that there is a significant difference between the paper meta I play in vs the top tier of the online meta that many of you base your decisions around. Thanks in advance.

[magicdownunder]

@cinik: The argument hasn't been settled, but you've nailed it with this comment: "From what I understand, Great Revel is better in the UW control, the Mirror, and the Mono Black devotion (at least on the play) matchups. I do believe the Great Revel / Firedancer sideboard combo is weaker vs Junk / BW midrange / GR monsters matchups than the YP / Mortars combo."

You basically established that Revel is only good in the MD against a few MU, while dancer from the SD suffering from the same situation - which tells us that YP is better vs more MUs so unless you KNOW you can rig the die roll so your always on the play and your meta is infested with control and mirrors - YP would seen better.

- - - - - -

[deck=MDU's Rw Burn]Lands 23
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of
Malice
1 Temple of Silence

Creatures 08
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Exile 03
3 Chained to the Rocks

Burn 26
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Searing Blood

Sideboard 15
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Toil // Trouble
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Banishing Light
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Fated Conflagration
1 Reprisal[/deck]
Link to Basic SB plan

SE Report 7151672
G1 R1 Mirror SE 7151672
G1 R2 Mirror SE 7151672

G2 R1 Bw Devotion vs Rw Burn SE 7151672
G2 R2 Bw Devotion vs Rw Burn SE 7151672

G3 R1 AiR vs Rw Burn SE 7151672
G3 R2 AiR vs Rw Burn SE 7151672

Short Magic Related Animation: Ever wonder how you card's felt when you gave them outrageous commands?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J36yHF7elPg

Here is the channel for more, likes, and Sub would help allot since this is my newer channel.....

[nme]

Hello everyone! I've been reading these forums for a while now and I've finally decided to enter the conversation. This is the list I am currently running after getting a top 4 finish at a local IQ this past weekend. My play group is thoroughly convinced that Great Revel is superior to YP due to the pressure it places on the opponent's life total, YP's susceptibility to cards such as Golgari Charm and Chandra, Pyromancer, and the idea that "at least Great Revel deals 2 damage to a Mono Black player when he instantly kills it." I have read all the posts in this thread, and I know you guys are probably sick of talking about it, but unfortunately I feel that I am missing something as to why the consensus over the last few pages seems to be that Great Revel
is NOT the preferable main deck creature over YP.

The tokens YP leaves behind are capable of doing more than 2 damage, so I don't think that's really a fair assessment of the cards. I tend to hold on to YP until I can get some value out of it by generating tokens if they remove it instantly, which means waiting until t3-t4 to play it if necessary. If it gets Golgari Charmed, then so be it. You can't play around everything at all times. At the end of the day it's still a 1 for 1 because the tokens are free.

[Nezeru]

Both Jund Monsters and RG brought in 3 copies of Disciple of Nylea.

Played an 8-man today and was frustrated. Won vs Junk Constellation 2-0, Jund Monsters 2-1, and lost to Dredge(what?? I know, lost the bye) 1-2. Mistcutter killed me G2 and double Eidolon draw didn't help g3 because I had only one burn spell all game and 7 lands. Was any burn spell short of killing him (he was at 1 at the end of the game) and he killed me with Jarad.

[magicdownunder]

That was painful, after having this long 7 event win streak, I dropped one event vs Junk (I was outplayed) then proceed to go 2-2 in the DE losing to Dredge 1-2 in the finals because I don't see a white source (I had a BL for his whip and chain for anything else).

[Elricity]

I would keep Skullcrack in against Monsters. It's decent against Courser and they're getting on the Nylea's Disciple postboard plan now too.

I havn't seen Nylea's Disciple from Monsters yet, but I did notice them in goldfish so I'll keep that in mind.

I lost my last DE due to 2 disciples from the board when I had him at lethal twice that game so I'm with Val on this. Mind you, I couldn't hit removal to save my soul so the life gain amounts were significant where keeping his devotion down would have made it less of a factor.

I would prefer not to cut
boros charm in that match so it's possible you just need to focus on disciple only gaining life on an empty board? I'd rather race it.

[Purp]

Lost my win an in at this past weekend's iq to a Naya Token deck.... Pretty sure the matchup is impossible. T2 Voices/Caratyds into Chandras, Purphuros OR Xenagos into Trostani into Elspeths. Pretty lame.

Was 3-2-1 to end the day. R1 I drew vs hexproof (keening apparition is so good.) R2 lost a mirror (both games missed 3-4 land drops). Won the next 3 vs GW Aggro, BG Devo, Junk Aristocrats. Then lost to the token deck.

Ran YP$ list which seems fine, I do however think it's significantly weaker in the mirror. But with all the midrange decks seeming to pop up, I like having access to 4 mortars.

[Lightning_Dolt]

@ MDU, why the 1 of Fated and Reprisal in the board?

[Purp]

How's fated been? I'm running a Brimaz in that spot.

Its been good - lots of Dragons, Hydras, Barons and Ghosts online right now (BWx and Jund monsters have been doing rather well for themselves...).

[zemanjaski]

Fated is ok, I don't line reprisal though that could be local meta.

[Purp]

Well Fated can kill everything that Reprisal can, except DD. Reprisal has one target vs basically every deck, where Fated has more. I think Fated is def better, but I am not sure if it's needed at all.

[mutantcrock]

I definitely feel like the underdog in the mirror when they are running eidelon and I'm not. For those of you running lists without any eidelon, whats your gameplan for this matchup?

[HK1997]

Well Fated can kill everything that Reprisal can, except DD. Reprisal has one target vs basically every deck, where Fated has more. I think Fated is def better, but I am not sure if it's needed at all.

That's a meta call imo. MDU is tested 2 fated instead of one in his side today, dont know how happy he was, but since he was already running 1, Im guessing he is happy.

I have been running into what feels like 80% Jund Monsters, GR Monsters, BW Midrange, Bw devotion online the past two days or so, which has me overreacting with 3 Mortars, 2 Fated and 2 Reprisal in the side. I appreciate the sentiment of Z, to only prep for control, but in the online world, you have to fight through all those BBVs, Palukranos, DDs, Archangels, Reapers, Coursers and
Ghost Dads <---- hate hate hate that card!, until you finally stand at 3-0 or 2-0 in the finals and face... Monsters!
Dont get me wrong, control is still there and being played, but beating control, especially Esper, seems a lot easier than the other matchups. UW is a pain, but not that bad either.

Fated and reprisal have killed me plenty a Ghost dad, DD and planeswalkers lately. The scry 2 should not be ignored, if cast on your turn. Quite powerful...

[Purp]

I definitely feel like the underdog in the mirror when they are running eidelon and I'm not. For those of you running lists without any eidelon, whats your gameplan for this matchup?

Hope to hit lands on curve, and draw more 4 point burn spells.

[magicdownunder]

Yep, fated is basically my reaction towards all the BWx and Monster decks online right now - though I cut reprisal.

[BrainsickHater]

It looks like I'll be heading to Providence for the SCG Open, and I'm trying to predict the meta. Any thoughts anyone has on this are greatly appreciated.

I'm looking at the last SCG Open, it seems to me that UWx control decks are falling out of favor, while Monsters, Naya variants, and Bx decks are out in full force. I feel that it's presumptuous of me to not have SB cards for control, but at the same time I feel that I need a higher density of cards for the creature matchups, which is leaving me in the position where I'm constantly second-guessing my SB choices.

I've definitely settled on running YP$ list with 3/3/3 Shock, Blood, Chains split. Here are the cards I've settled on for the board.

- 4 Mizzium Mortars: Creatures die to it. That's nice.
- 1 Chained to the Rocks: This really needs no explanation.
- 2 Chandra, Pyromaster:[/b:
fktgs6s9] This card has singlehandedly won me many games, and it's excellent in so many matchups that it's perfect for an open event.
- 3 Keening Apparition: I red Zem's reddit post about this card and it seems very well positioned. A reactive effect that I don't mind loading up on feels really good as well.
- 1 Wear // Tear: An actual disenchant is still necessary.

The cards that are under consideration but I can't decide on are the following:
- Toil // Trouble: The card was really good for me a little while ago, but if I'm not expecting as much control it seems weak.
- Fated Conflagration: Unless someone can convince me that this card is very good, I probably won't run it, as I don't have much experience with it. However, it seems good against the meta I think I'll be facing.
- Blind Obedience: This card hasn't been around for a while, but I anticipate
Obzedat's and an abundance of monsters. If I was more sure of the meta, I would run it, but this might be too narrow for an open event.
- Mutavault: Only running 3 in the maindeck, so this seems like an auto-include, but if Control isn't as popular maybe I don't want it.
- Harness by Force: I very much like this card, but I feel as if I'll be playing a grinder control game against creature decks than trying to hit hard. It is good against Bx decks though, so it's pretty high on the list.
- Brimaz: Saw it on Z's list, and who doesn't want to run a Brimaz? Lack of testing and not really having an intimate knowledge of how I would run this card make me wary of it though.

EDIT: Forgot to include Flames of the Firebrand as a card I'm considering in the board.

[zemanjaski]

1 Banishing Light
1 Blind Obedience
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Harness by Force
2 Keening Apparition
4 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
1 Wear // Tear

Seems reasonable. I could see -1 Apparition, +1 FotF or +1 Soark Trioper depending how you think the meta will look. I don't like Brimaz against monsters or MBC variants.

[BrainsickHater]

The only card I don't like is Banishing Light. As I understand its place in the board, it's a catch-all response to control shenanigans that has additional utility in some other matchups, like MU devotion. In that capacity I think the card is definitely fine, but in all the times I've run Banishing Light, it's caused a headache for me in the SB because there are so many situations where I feel like I want it, while at the same time I hate playing it because it usually costs me my turn. For me personally, SB cards that have clearly defined purpose and are very strong in specific matchups are easier for me to play with. I think this may be a weakness on my part because it's probably much more powerful to be able to have a bunch of cards that have small amounts of overlap and be able to sideboard organically based on the cards you've seen. I'll probably run this board with -1 BL and +1 FotF. I have a tendency to
throw games against aggro.


I recall you mentioning in your reddit post that Brimaz is for attrition matchups. The only attrition matchups I can think of are midrange/Bx decks where he would just eat removal, and I guess...aggro? I suppose against the small decks we just want to grind them out then slam something that carries the game away, but there are more flexible cards that do the same thing (i.e. Chandra). I'm pretty decided on not running the card because I agree that he's not where I want to be against Monsters and MBC, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around when it is where I would want to be.

[magicdownunder]

Fated is good vs SBD, Walkers, BBV and Ghostdad if your meta is filled with Junk and Monsters run them.

I can vouch for BL, I view it as your 5th chain vs Ux Devotion (that imo is good enough reason to run it) - now I havn't tried Brimaz but I imagine he is good vs Aggro and Mirror, if your having trouble with those MUs run him.

[BrainsickHater]

I don't think I would run Brimaz in the mirror for the same reason Phoenix can be awkward to cast, and if I wouldn't run him in any other matchup than aggro he doesn't warrant a SB slot imo.

Telling me Fated is good doesn't actually tell me all that much. Plus the only thing it really seems to do is kill Obzedat and save me damage from Stormbreath at the cost of my turn. Blind Obedience helps remedy both those issues and more.

And my thinking is that if I run FotF I'm still shoring up the MU matchup, but I get to run cards that make more sense to me and also shore up the matchupa I tend to play poorly against. Plus, I'm not really all that worried about MU devotion. I've played against it a lot and I don't think I'v ever actually lost a match to it. The likelihood of me drawing a chians is the same as them drawing a master, and there are situations when Banishing Light can actually be a poor card when
they're UW and playing DSphere.

[magicdownunder]

I'm glad your doing well against Ux Devotion, sometimes they will have MoW and kill you while you don't chains - due too the blowout nature of the MU I like too increase my odds (keep in mind I primary only play online where Ux Devotion was sitting at the 3rd most successful deck for a very long time).

In regards with Fated, I believe it is better in situations where your Opp. is likely to run cards like Decay, Decided and Charm because it gives you a permanent answer against large creatures which are normally difficult too deal with (this is something which Chains, BL or BO cannot do).

Note: I also dislike threaten effects against Bx Devotion and Monster/Junk decks mainly because they can just put creatures in front of your targets or just sac something.

[BrainsickHater]

I didn't make myself very clear in my last post, and that's my bad. I was comparing Fated to Mortars. I didn't think the ability to clear out Obzedat or save some damage from Stormy was worth playing Fated over something like BloB or Mortars.

I really like Threaten effects though, so that pretty much explains why you would run Fated and I wouldn't; the slots where I would play Fated I'm instead running threatens. I like Threatens a lot because they fit with the game plan of the deck very, very well. They have also been very strong for me. Against Dredge I smacked an opponent for 8 (which won me a game I had zero business winning), and you can oftentimes catch a T4 Demon when they're tapped out. You can also steal dudes and sac them into their demon if you don't think you can get a clean attack through. I feel like Bx matchups require an extra punch to get there in the post-board games, and pretty much every
big creature deck has a flier you can steal to avoid their chump blockers.

[magicdownunder]

I didn't make myself very clear in my last post, and that's my bad. I was comparing Fated to Mortars. I didn't think the ability to clear out Obzedat or save some damage from Stormy was worth playing Fated over something like BloB or Mortars.

I really like Threaten effects though, so that pretty much explains why you would run Fated and I wouldn't; the slots where I would play Fated I'm instead running threatens. I like Threatens a lot because they fit with the game plan of the deck very, very well. They have also been very strong for me. Against Dredge I smacked an opponent for 8 (which won me a game I had zero business winning), and you can oftentimes catch a T4 Demon when they're tapped out. You can also steal dudes and sac them into their demon
if you don't think you can get a clean attack through. I feel like Bx matchups require an extra punch to get there in the post-board games, and pretty much every big creature deck has a flier you can steal to avoid their chump blockers.

Yep we all have our own preferences and yes I agree MM is MANY times better then Fated though Fated also hits the horrible Hydra, walkers and large oozes as well - I run them together

[magicdownunder]

Anyone else running Harness by Force?

I know the card is great vs Dredge and GWx Aggro but I don't count those as real MUs so what I'm really asking is "how good is Harness by Force vs Monster, Bx Devo and Junk"?

I havn't ran threaten effects in a long time but vs most decks isn't Boros Charm better (it deals 4 damage, saves YP$ from removal, saved your enchantment from removal and can kill x/4 creatures when combined with a 2/x)? vs Monsters your best target is SBD valued at 4 damage, vs Junk your ONLY target is the Angel which is valued at 3 damage and vs Bx Devo you have a limited window to target down DD.

If your wondering why I'm comparing Harness by Force with Boros Charm - that is because when its boils down too it
that is what your sided out since you need Skullcrack vs each of the MUs to stop huge life swings and your already boarding in (going by your comments) 1x Chains, 4x MM, 1x BO (which takes out all the usually board choices)?

[dpaine88]

@BrainSickHater

Rcwraspy and I live in Boston and are going to the SCG too!

As for the meta.. The New England metagane is typically heavy on Midrange and Control. Lots of black devotion. Not much for aggro really aside from mono blue every now n then.

[BrainsickHater]

Hrmmm, then I think I'll want a little more for control so I can side out the bad cards (shock) in addition to the dead cards (blood/chains).

@MDU Threaten is a lot better in a YP variant than an Eidolon variant. Clearing away a blocker in addition to the extra damage from the opponent's creature will sometimes clear enough of the board away for you to alpha strike for lethal. Another thing to consider is that many players will not play around Threaten which makes a big difference in whether or not you can connect with it. In some matchups, if they do play around Threaten, that favors you. In a race-oriented matchup like monsters, preventing them from tapping a caryatid or swinging with courser for fear of being threatened out of the game can be very beneficial.

But for the purposes of comparing this card to Boros Charm, Harness will almost always be worth more (except in extremely cluttered board states) as it
enables any other creatures you have to attack, oftentimes unimpeded. This is especially true for harnessing fliers. And if you ever strive the card that's usually GG.

[BrainsickHater]

@dpaine What's your SB look like? I'm curious to see what the real OG New Englanders play.

[Purp]

Not sure how Harness is good.

I don't get why you think the monsters match up is a "race". That matchup is incredibly easy with the YP$ version, G1 is almost un-loseable (made up this word).

[Purp]

Interesting Japanese God of Standard list (2nd Place)

[deck]4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer
Creatures [8]
4 Boros Charm
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
1 Mizzium Mortars
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
Spells [29]
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Mana Confluence
8 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
Lands [23]

SIDEBOARD
2 Banishing Light
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Reprisal
2 Wear // Tear
Sideboard [15]
Deck Total [60][/deck]

[Purp]

Interesting Standard metagame snapshot.

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/standard- ... june-2014/

[zenbitz]

That "other" must have a lot of white and mono blue.