Mono Black Devotion

[RedNihilist]

My current "list", for reference:

[DECK]
Lands (25)
4x Mutavault
17x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit

Creatures (16)
4x Desecration Demon
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Lifebane Zombie
4x Pack Rat

Spells (19)
2x Bile Blight
3x Devour Flesh
2x Ultimate Price
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Thoughtseize
4x Underworld Connections

Sideboard (15)
3x Dark Betrayal
3x Duress
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Devour Flesh
2x Doom Blade
1x Bile Blight
2x Drown in Sorrow
1x flex slot
[/DECK]

I'm actually thinking of adding Pithing Needle as an extra answer to planeswalkers (Gx devotion).
I've seen people going back to a 1x Whip of Erebos in the sideboard, but I'm not sold on that.

[RedNihilist]

[quote="magicdownunder » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:18 pm"]RedNihilist could you post a rough SB'ing guide vs Grx, Bx, Control, Burn and Ux?

I'm thinking:

Grx
in: 2 Doom Blade
out: 2 Devour Flesh

Bx
in: 3 Dark Betrayal, 4 Duress, 3 Erebos, God of the Dead, 1 Bile Blight
out: 4 Lifebane Zombie, 4 Desecration Demon, 3 Hero's Downfall

BW
in: 3 Dark Betrayal, 4 Duress, 3 Erebos, God of the Dead, 2 Devour Flesh
out: 4 Desecration Demon, 4 Hero's Downfall, 2 Ultimate Price

Control
in: 4 Duress, 3 Erebos, God of the Dead
out: 3 Bile Blight, 2 Devour Flesh, 2 Ultimate Price

Burn
in: 3 Erebos, God of the Dead, 2 Devour Flesh, 4 Duress
Out: 4 Lifebane Zombie 4 Hero's Downfall, 1 Ultimate Price

Uw Devotion
in: 2 Doom Blade, 1 Bile Blight, 1 Devour Flesh
out: 4 Underworld Connections[/quote:
1v1ut4d6]

This is pretty much how I'd side with my list at the moment:

- GR Monsters / Jund Monsters*
-3 Devour Flesh
+2 Doom Blade, +1 Bile Blight

- Gx devotion*
-3 Devour Flesh
-4 Underworld Connections
+3 Duress
+2 Doom Blade
+2 Drown in Sorrow

The plan here is just stripping down their hand, keeping their devotion low, and try to kill them before bad things happen.
Still, there are some hands you just can't beat.

- UWx Control*
-2 Ultimate Price
-3 Devour Flesh
+2 Erebos, God of the Dead
+3 Duress

- Esper Control*
-2 Ultimate Price
-2 Pack Rats
-1 Hero's Downfall
+2 Erebos, God of the Dead
+3 Duress

!: Some of them board in Pack Rats, so keeping in a number of Bile Blights could be smart.

- Mirror
-4 Desecration Demon
-2 Hero's Downfall (play) / Pack Rats (draw)
-3 Devour Flesh
+1 Bile Blight
+2 Erebos, God of the Dead
+3
Duress
+3 Dark Betrayal

- BW*
-2 Ultimate Price
-4 Desecration Demon
-4 Hero's Downfall
+1 Bile Blight
+1 Devour Flesh
+2 Erebos, God of the Dead
+3 Duress
+3 Dark Betrayal

- U devotion
-4 Underworld Connections
-1 Devour Flesh
+2 Drown in Sorrow
+2 Doom Blade
+1 Bile Blight

~Uw devotion (for Detention Spheres?)
-2 Pack Rats
-1 Desecration Demon
+3 Duress

- GW Aggro
-4 Underworld Connections
-3 Devour Flesh
-1 Desecration Demon
+2 Doom Blade
+2 Drown in Sorrow
+1 Bile Blight
+3 Duress (feel free to call me a stupid for this)

- Esper Midrange
-2 Ultimate Price
-2 Pack Rats
+2 Drown in Sorrow
+1 Bile Blight
+1 Devour Flesh

- Rx devotion
-4 Underworld Connections
-1 Devour Flesh
+1 Bile Blight
+2 Drown in Sorrow
+2 Doom Blade

- Burn ~ No experience with the
matchup
-2 Underworld Connections
-2 Ultimate Price
-1 Bile Blight
+2 Erebos, God of the Dead
+3 Duress

* = Pithing Needle could go in!

I'd seriously like some feedback from you all while we're at it.
I tried to come up with a sideboard for Burn but I've honestly played against it only one time and my opponent was far from being skilled.

[ADarkConfidant]

Just read an interesting argument by Harrison Hite, who top 8'd a recent SGC Open, about playing 4 Bile Blight.

Of all the choices, this is probably the one that will require the most convincing argument because of how bad the card is perceived to be against the various flavors of Monsters and because it requires the previously discussed warping of the mana base. But the fact of the matter is that this is an extremely flexible all-purpose removal spell with built-in card advantage potential that deserves its slots.

Continuing with the theme of cards that reward playskill, Bile Blight's utility scales extremely well as your knowledge of its various interactions with the rules increases. The easiest and most obvious example has to do with denying evolve triggers to Cloudfin Raptor against Mono-Blue Devotion. Here's how it works:

Let's say your opponent has a Cloudfin Raptor in play and
casts something that would evolve it, such as a Nightveil Specter. Since evolve checks power and toughness on resolution, you can cast Bile Blight on Nightveil Specter in response to the evolve trigger, and its last known power and toughness will become -1/0 before it dies to state-based effects. The evolve trigger will then resolve using the last known information, and since -1/0 isn't big enough to evolve anything, Cloudfin Raptor won't evolve. This interaction came up in my very first game of the tournament, and I stabilized at two life precisely because of taking less damage from Cloudfin Raptor.

Another interaction that has come up in testing on Magic Online is responding to a Xenagos, God of Revels trigger targeting Courser of Kruphix. If you Bile Blight Courser in response, it becomes a -1/-1 that gets -1/-1 from the trigger resolving and dies to state-based effects. Between these sweet interactions and the obvious blowouts it can create against things like the triple identical one-drop start out
of aggro and topdecking it when your Mono-Black Devotion opponent has just tapped out to make their third Pack Rat, it almost feels bad when it's "just" an efficient one-for-one. Have I mentioned how many opponents I've made look foolish by casting this in response to Domri Rade fight activations? This card does it all and easily deserves four maindeck slots.

[ADarkConfidant]

My current "list", for reference:

[DECK]
Lands (25)
4x Mutavault
17x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit

Creatures (16)
4x Desecration Demon
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Lifebane Zombie
4x Pack Rat

Spells (19)
2x Bile Blight
3x Devour Flesh
2x Ultimate Price
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Thoughtseize
4x Underworld Connections

Sideboard (15)
3x Dark Betrayal
3x Duress
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Devour Flesh
2x Doom Blade
1x Bile Blight
2x Drown in Sorrow
1x flex slot
[/DECK]

I'm actually thinking of adding Pithing Needle as an extra answer to planeswalkers (Gx devotion).
I've seen people going back to a 1x Whip of Erebos in the sideboard, but I'm not sold on that.

Cool list. I've only run 25 lands a few
times in testing, and overall I think I'm just too chicken to do it.
I agree with you on the Whip of Erebos. I don't think that card is worth it in Standard.
A Pithing Needle can bring much more value in far more situations.

I may imitate your removal suite setup in my own deck, though.

[RedNihilist]

You could always try to go for 26 lands, 3 BB and no UPs.
I've chosen to add them because I wanted to have more 2-mana answers for things like Polukranos, Arbor Colossus and the likes, while Bile Blight and Devour Flesh are pretty much blank cards on game 1.
It really depends on the decks you're expecting to face, doesn't it?

[ADarkConfidant]

You could always try to go for 26 lands, 3 BB and no UPs.
I've chosen to add them because I wanted to have more 2-mana answers for things like Polukranos, Arbor Colossus and the likes, while Bile Blight and Devour Flesh are pretty much blank cards on game 1.
It really depends on the decks you're expecting to face, doesn't it?

Yeah, currently Im mainboard 2 BB, 2 UP, and 2 Devour Flesh. I'm expecting Green/Red mainly, so I should probably move to 4 BB, and maybe 2 or 3 UP, depending on if I want less lands or not.
Once again, I'm a chicken.

[RedNihilist]

There's nothing like "being a chicken".
There's no point in considering another deck better than the one you're playing but refusing to shift.
Play a bunch of games with both the configurations (i.e. Cockatrice?) and see which one "feels" better to you, then just go for it.
If you feel like you need that 26th land, that's ok, if you feel like you don't have too many problems in missing a land drop every now and then while loving that extra removal, that's ok as well.
The 25-lands list isn't strictly superior to the 26-lands one (or, if it is, I don't think anybody has managed to demonstrate it yet), so there's no point in apologizing for having your own ideas rather than just going with your own.

[magicdownunder]

How important is that extra "terror" effect MD? I'm going to test this brew once MOCS5 grinding starts up again:

[deck=MDU's Black Devotion]Lands 26
4 Mutavault
18 Swamp
4 Temple of Deceipt

Creatures 16
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Nightveil Specter
3 Pack Rat
2 Lifebane Zombie

Spells 18
2 Bile Blight
4 Devour Flesh
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
4 Underworld Connections

Sideboard 15
4 Doom Blade
4 Duress
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Bile Blight[/deck]

That extra BB is for Burn, BW Control and the Mirror MU - 3x rats is me acknowledging the effect BB has the meta game (and Dshpere).

I really wanted to fit Rachet Bomb but I feel that cutting the 26th land would be bad since NOT 5th land is a death sentence (you need it for Pack Rats and Garry).

The Nightveil Specter are for mainly for burn
and the mirror MUs.

[RedNihilist]

Everytime I've tried out Ratchet Bomb, it underperformed.
The list seems good, I'll wait your videos with it

26th land: I've seen BW builds going with 25 lands while boarding 4 pack rats, 4 BBoV and 2 Elspeths, so I tried out cutting that swamp and it "felt" good for me, but I get your point.

[ADarkConfidant]

Everytime I've tried out Ratchet Bomb, it underperformed.
The list seems good, I'll wait your videos with it

26th land: I've seen BW builds going with 25 lands while boarding 4 pack rats, 4 BBoV and 2 Elspeths, so I tried out cutting that swamp and it "felt" good for me, but I get your point.

In testing, I've finally moved to 25 lands and am fine with it.

I've seen Ratchet Bomb work, pre-BNG, for the mirror matchup. Pre-Bile Blight you'd activate the Pack Rat ability and sacrifice Ratchet Bomb in reponse( with 2 counters on it).
All Pack Rats will die( especially your opponent's) and you'd have 1 Pack Rat token enter the battlefield
under your control afterwards.

Aside from that, they're almost only good for taking out D Spheres and Red Devotion (for 2 drops), which is rarely a thing I see anymore.

[ADarkConfidant]

So I've been cheating on this deck with Mono Black Aggro, ever since Born of the Gods came out.
However, I'll return to Black Control with this following list, at the SCG Open in Detroit:

[deck]Sorcery (4)
4x Thoughtseize

Land (25)
4x Mutavault
13x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave

Creature (15)
4x Desecration Demon
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3x Nightveil Specter
4x Pack Rat

Planeswalker (2)
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver

Instant (10)
3x Bile Blight
3x Devour Flesh
4x Hero's Downfall

Enchantment (4)
4x Underworld Connections

Sideboard (15)
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Doom Blade
4x Duress
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
3x Lifebane Zombie
2x Pharika's Cure
[/deck]

[RedNihilist]

If you're really splashing blue, you really should add a Notion Thief in the sideboard for an extra F U to control decks.
I've never managed to get any value out of Ashiok, let me now how it turns out for you.

[ADarkConfidant]

If you're really splashing blue, you really should add a Notion Thief in the sideboard for an extra F U to control decks.
I've never managed to get any value out of Ashiok, let me now how it turns out for you.

So far, in testing, Ashiok is a much better version of Nightveil Specter( especially in today's metagame). Works nice against Black Control decks, Aggro decks, and Blue Devotion.
It's far easier to cast than the Specter, as well.

I'll definitely try to pick up a Notion Thief before the tournament this Saturday!

[ADarkConfidant]

Updated my list

[deck]Sorcery (4)
4x Thoughtseize
Land (25)
4x Mutavault
13x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
Creature (15)
4x Desecration Demon
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3x Lifebane Zombie
4x Pack Rat
Planeswalker (3)
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Instant (10)
2x Bile Blight
4x Devour Flesh
4x Hero's Downfall
Enchantment (3)
3x Underworld Connections
Sideboard (15)
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Doom Blade
1x Notion Thief
1x Drown in Sorrow
4x Duress
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Psychic Strike
1x Whip of Erebos[/deck]

[RedNihilist]

So I hear you don't like BBoV

[ADarkConfidant]

So I hear you don't like BBoV

Nope. Lifebane, Thougthseize, Ashiok, and Devour Flesh are all out to get him!

[RedNihilist]

How did the tournament go BTW?

[ADarkConfidant]

Had to drop, but Ashiok shined in every matchup. Notion Thief disappointed. Psychic Strike was a good surprise in U/W matches.
My friend got 4th in the tourney, though. Had a lot of fun.
Going forward, I hope to play an Ashiok deck in the future, but I think keeping Black Devotion mono black aside from the sideboard might be a good idea, going forward.

[ADarkConfidant]

Had to drop, but Ashiok shined in every matchup. Notion Thief disappointed. Psychic Strike was a good surprise in U/W matches.
My friend got 4th in the tourney, though. Had a lot of fun.
Going forward, I hope to play an Ashiok deck in the future, but I think keeping Black Devotion mono black aside from the sideboard might be a good idea, going forward.

[RedNihilist]

With JOU, it is time to go Golgari.
Thoughtseize, HDF, and Abrupt Decay are meant to be played together.
Bye bye Chained, bye Sphere, bye Domri.

[Tyrael]

Do you guys think it's worth playing Pack rats in a meta filled to the brim with black devo and control decks? Something is telling me I might as well run a Lifebane/Specter split main and maybe a few copies of duress instead of the rats...

[ADarkConfidant]

Do you guys think it's worth playing Pack rats in a meta filled to the brim with black devo and control decks? Something is telling me I might as well run a Lifebane/Specter split main and maybe a few copies of duress instead of the rats...

Pack Rats are still fine.
They shouldn't be your main strategy in the black mirror and u/w matches anyway!
If anything, they're good early distractions in those.

[ADarkConfidant]

With JOU, it is time to go Golgari.
Thoughtseize, HDF, and Abrupt Decay are meant to be played together.
Bye bye Chained, bye Sphere, bye Domri.

I have the lands...not sure why I don't feel compelled to do this, though.
Straight Black has been running great still, so-far.

[Tyrael]

Abrupt Decay isn't even the best reason to splash green

Golgari Charm is a bomb

Also, having access to Vraska is cool since she's a pet card of mine :3

[deck=B/G Devotion; Andrew Tenjum; 1st Place at StarCityGames.com Standard Open on 5/3/2014]
Creatures (16)
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Pack Rat

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Vraska the Unseen

Lands (25)
11 Swamp
2 Golgari Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple of Malady

Spells (18)
4 Underworld Connections
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Devour Flesh
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
2 Dark Betrayal
1 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pharika's Cure
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Duress[/deck]

[ADarkConfidant]

Abrupt Decay isn't even the best reason to splash green

Golgari Charm is a bomb

Also, having access to Vraska is cool since she's a pet card of mine :3

Yeah, I splashed green back in january just for 3 golgari charms within the deck.
Takes out Detention Sphere( and these days far many more enchantments and enchantment creatures), Supreme Verdict, and any 1 toughness creatures( another bile blight against Elspeth tokens).

[RedNihilist]

I'll be honest: I've never tried Vraska out. Does she deserve her slot?

[Tyrael]

Well, she's another win condition vs control and her -3 answers almost everything so I think she might be worth it as a 1-of

[ADarkConfidant]

I'll be honest: I've never tried Vraska out. Does she deserve her slot?

I think she's very important against U/W based control decks, simply because she's another threat that Supreme Verdict can't get, forcing them to use more Banish Lights and D Spheres on her instead of Underworld Connections or Erebos. That's why I loved Ashiok so much. Alternate wincon + another distraction from my rats or demons.
At the same time, she can blow up their planeswalkers, Elixirs, or any other weird stuff they board in against us.

It's not good against Obzedat and Blood Baron decks, but in most matchups she's a winthegame clock too.
Try here out to see if you like her, because honestly it might not be the best card for every player, and can be
easily replaced by a Whip or something.

[RedNihilist]

(Erebos is bugging me with Deicide out)

[ADarkConfidant]

(Erebos is bugging me with Deicide out)

I only run 2, so having it in a post-Deicide world is no biggie. It just means that an Underworld Connections gets to live.
Also, I run 4 thoughtseize and 4 duress, so I usually can take their singleton copy before they can use it.
Either way, I think having Erebos is still worth it, and probably necessary for the Black control deck to survive the U/W matchup.

[RedNihilist]

Local Esper - Burn players run two copies in order to fight off Thassa / Ephara, but that's not even the point.
I think you're right, I shouldn't let the existence of Deicide bother me too much.

[Tyrael]

Brain Maggot anyone?

I have been testing it MB for a few days and now my control playtester refuses to play any more matches against the deck (TS + Duress + BM post-board is just game over)

[Toddington]

Yeah, +1 on the Maggot. Sweet card, the discard package for Black at the moment is awesome.

[Toddington]

Hey guys, I'm looking to pick up this deck after playing MBA. I feel MBA is very powerful, but in a meta where 1-drops are bad (Green + Aggro) this is just better. Here's a list I threw together;

[deck]Creature (18)
4x Desecration Demon
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3x Lifebane Zombie
3x Nightveil Specter
4x Pack Rat

Sorcery (5)
1x Duress
4x Thoughtseize

Enchantment (1)
1x Underworld Connections

Instant (11)
2x Bile Blight
4x Devour Flesh
4x Hero's Downfall
1x Silence the Believers

Land (25)
4x Mutavault
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
16x Swamp
4x Temple of Malice

Sideboard (15)
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Doom Blade
3x Duress
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Lifebane Zombie
1x Nightveil Specter
2x Ultimate Price
2x Underworld Connections
1x Whip of Erebos[/deck]
I'm not the world's biggest fan of Connections, but I do love Zombie and Specter. Am I insane for not having 4 Connections in the 75,
nevermind the 60?

I love how this deck can just play as a Pack Rat combo deck with certain draws. The manabase is maybe a bit ambitious for Specter. I think the SB is good, but I might be way off the mark.

[Tyrael]

4 Connections + Discard is the reason you stomp most control matchups

Some advice:
Don't cut your card advantage.
I would just run 4 Zombies main if green is so popular at your LGS.
Cut the Specters and refill on the Connections.
Running the singleton whip main is fine if you expect a lot of burn.
Nykthos is unnecessary and Silence the Believers may seem cute but we really don't need it atm.

[Toddington]

Ok cool, some follow-up questions;

1. Are playsets of both Zombie and Specter accepted in the 75?
2. SB Connections out against non-control decks?
3. A lot of lists run (ran?) 2 Drown in Sorrow, necessary?
4. Is Whip good anywhere else, grindy match-ups?
5. I really am not fond of Bile Blight atm, at the same time don't want to cut it all together. 2 copies good?

[RedNihilist]

Ok cool, some follow-up questions;

1. Are playsets of both Zombie and Specter accepted in the 75?
2. SB Connections out against non-control decks?
3. A lot of lists run (ran?) 2 Drown in Sorrow, necessary?
4. Is Whip good anywhere else, grindy match-ups?
5. I really am not fond of Bile Blight atm, at the same time don't want to cut it all together. 2 copies good?

1. Back in the day pre-RG monsters, the consensus was 4 NVS + 3 LBZ in the side. I've never really felt the need to go back to Spect0r, but it's a good card nonetheless - I guess the meta call is up to you.
2. Connections get out in matchup where you desperately need those life points - namely, against aggro and burn, I guess.
3. Do you expect small aggro (Mono Black, RDW,
White Weenie)? If so, Drown in Sorrow is a good card.
4. Whip can either be good for its lifelink clause (burn) of for its ability to recur ETB effects like LBZ and Gary (white / green decks, control, BW midrange).
5. The standard shell is 25~26 lands, 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Hero's Downfall, 0~4 Pack Rats, 4 3-drops of your choice, 4 Desecration Demons, 4 Gary, 4 Underworld Connections; a 25 lands, 4 Paco build would end up with 7 free slots that you can fill in every way you want, Bile Blight is a strong card but it's not mandatory, feel free to experiment around.

[Tyrael]

You can run something like, say Ultimate Price mainboard to compliment Bile Blight main board

[Toddington]

Ok, thanks a bunch guys. I'm playing this deck this week, hopefully will get some insight from FNM.

Has everyone jumped ship from Mono-Black, I know B/g received a lot of hype? I tried B/r, and enjoyed Dreadbore and Rakdos's Return a fair bit.

[RedNihilist]

Lately I've been playing Burn in order to "breath some fresh air", in the past I've tried BW midrange but I don't really like it and I found the red splash wrong - while green and white give you some tool that let you answer some threats that monoB is weak to (Abrupt Decay, Golgari Charm, Revoke Existence, Deicide) or game winning options (Elspeth, BBoV), red gives you sorcery speed removal, Slaughter Games and Rakdos Return that are good cards but didn't feel stellar when I tried them out.

I plan to try Golgari as soon as I manage to get my last 2 Temples of Malady, but I'll probably stay with MonoB's consistency.