[Primer] Boros Burn

[magicdownunder]

You didn't side it in vs black in your video, which had me scratching my head.

You only have 4 targets vs Black Devotion so I wouldn't run reprisal.

Have you guys come to a consensus on Eidolon? I may have time to test tonight. Call me crazy, but I'm also considering a return to ash zealot.

L_P nailed it, you won't get general consensus....

IMO its great for the Mirror (it won me my mirror during the DE) and Control while being decent against Bx Devotion and any list which packs many */2 creatures (it acts likes a horrible [card]Seal of Fire[
/card] in those MUs) I do think in some MUs it can be a death sentence and I'm no longer willing to MD it.

Other will just defend the card and say its good vs everything but is extremely skill testing.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Which matchups do you think its a death sentence?

[zemanjaski]

There isnt a matchup where Eidolon is better than YP$, though yes, it is easier to play with.

[magicdownunder]

Which matchups do you think its a death sentence?

Most Gx based decks.

There isnt a matchup where Eidolon is better than YP$, though yes, it is easier to play with.

For the most part I agree, except for the Mirror and the Control MU (its not MD card (imo) by any means though).

[zemanjaski]

YP$ is insane in the mirror...I couldn't disagree more. They're both pretty middling against control ~ Eidolon is more consistently worth 3 damage, but YP$ has substantially higher upside. I'd give the edge to Eidolon against control (though that is somewhat tempered by it been RR, which is more demanding on your mana, both in how you constructed the mana base and in actually casting it on turn 2, both of which narrow the margin) but in the mirror it isn't that close imho.

[magicdownunder]

IDK - looking at burn list from the DtR group or Mezzel I'll agree (yes if I face you guys I'll keep my YP$).

The avg. burn players however is on 4x Searing Blood plan, in which case I'll much rather have them kill my Revel then YP$ (even if you play a burn spell to create a token, your just giving them more chance too keep Searing Blood live) heck if I could dedicate the board space for it I'll love to take the creatureless route against the avg. burn player.

[Kaitscralt]

It is really hard to evaluate this card in a vacuum, but after talking to a lot of strong players I test with, we more or less came to the conclusion that there simply isn't a home for Eidolon of the Great Revel, in any format.

[zemanjaski]

I still haven't been proven wrong.

[Kaitscralt]

yeah but you will say that even if the card becomes a 4-of in every red aggro deck, so it''s easier to than say you're wrong

[BiddingMaster]

There isnt a matchup where Eidolon is better than YP$, though yes, it is easier to play with.

My thoughts on eidolon is that it is by no means a replacement for YP$ in any shape or form. the reason I suggested it as a maindeckable card is because it is basically a benevolent bodyguard for YP$ and if they have to use a downfall then it protects chandra as well, which is why its awsome and In the mirror its really awsome to play t2 eidolon and have them go oh searing blood. Also its way better than ash zealot because eidolon works out better in the matchups where she is terrible and performs the same job if not better in the match ups where she is good. I forget who but someone said that it is a death sentence in the gx match up but against the
mono green deck we just crush it. Against any aggro deck you just drop both yourself and the opp to a low life total then you just burn thier final few blockers make some tokens then swing house with everythink even the tokens and they cant play any spells or they just die anyway. Green white aggro is the only match up where eidolon can get you killed but alot of the times if you can protect chandra then by the time she ultimates they cant come back from it because I have never not hit a warleaders helix with a chandra trigger. the only reason gw gives us trouble with eidolon is that we are having to 2-1 voice of resurgence/advent of the wurm. but its a very small part of the metagame and you should not have to face it but once in like every 10 daily events which is how often I see it. Im fine loosing to it every single time if I see it so few times.

[BiddingMaster]

I posted a few of my videos on youtube set as private but I was wondering how discriminant should I be when I start posting them for the general public? What vids should make the cut and which ones should not. I plan on playing 8+ daily events per week so I dont think I should Post every single one but should I just post the ones where I 3-1 or 4-0?

[NerdBoyWonder]

I posted a few of my videos on youtube set as private but I was wondering how discriminant should I be when I start posting them for the general public? What vids should make the cut and which ones should not. I plan on playing 8+ daily events per week so I dont think I should Post every single one but should I just post the ones where I 3-1 or 4-0?

Depends on what you want to get out of the videos really. If you want feed back just posting your 3-1 and 4-0 isn't always good

[LaZerBurn]

I posted a few of my videos on youtube set as private but I was wondering how discriminant should I be when I start posting them for the general public? What vids should make the cut and which ones should not. I plan on playing 8+ daily events per week so I dont think I should Post every single one but should I just post the ones where I 3-1 or 4-0?

Depends on what you want to get out of the videos really. If you want feed back just posting your 3-1 and 4-0 isn't always good

I agree with Nerdboy on this - which ones you post depends entirely on WHY you're
posting them, only you can answer that

[Rjayz]

Hi, couldn't happen but notice that Zem's list includes Firedrinker Satyr as a sideboard card while most of the other lists you've posted have Toil//Trouble or neither in the sideboard. Is this a response to Nyx-Fleece Ram and Courser of Kuphrix-decks being heavily played on Magic Online or is there a different reason as to why this is? From personal testing, I've never been impressed by Trouble while Firedrinker has gotten in for good chunks of damage, although I can imagine against the sheep it's less impressive

[LP, of the Fires]

Hi, couldn't happen but notice that Zem's list includes Firedrinker Satyr as a sideboard card while most of the other lists you've posted have Toil//Trouble or neither in the sideboard. Is this a response to Nyx-Fleece Ram and Courser of Kuphrix-decks being heavily played on Magic Online or is there a different reason as to why this is? From personal testing, I've never been impressed by Trouble while Firedrinker has gotten in for good chunks of damage, although I can imagine against the sheep it's less impressive

Probably just pers pref. Idk if Z shares this facet of my deckbuilding philosophy, but when decisions are close, I always err on the side of the more consistent card. Toil/troubles inconsistent in that you don't always know what it's
getting you. You always know what FDS gives you.

For example, if I'm going into a tourney with a few sideboard slots up in the air, it's not uncommon for me to look at say dictate of the twin gods and say, "I don't know what the card does so I'm not confident playing it. I know what boros charm does so I'd feel more comfortable playing that" or whatever.

[hoeiberg]

Turn/Burn is such an underpowered card to splash for >_>
.

It would also allow us to play Keranos out of the board (taking the slot that assemble used to hold). He provides (almost) the same kind of inevitability and is indestructible. Could be good, could be terrible, I'm inclined to think the latter but i just wanted to mention it.

[BrainsickHater]

Some people in this thread really like T/T, while others, including Z, do not. Personally, I hate Toil and Trouble. It's 3 mana, Sorcery speed, and not guaranteed to do a whole lot. The problem with FDS right now though is that there are more creatures clogging up the ground. That said, I ran FDS at an FNM recently and it did a ton of work.

@hoelberg: I don't like Keranos beacuse he doesn't clog the board and protect my life total. His inevitability is also much more linear which makes it hard to fight through lifegain and end the game.

[Elricity]

Turn/Burn is such an underpowered card to splash for >_>
.

It would also allow us to play Keranos out of the board (taking the slot that assemble used to hold). He provides (almost) the same kind of inevitability and is indestructible. Could be good, could be terrible, I'm inclined to think the latter but i just wanted to mention it.

Before even discussing the merits of the card:

The Hypergeometric Distribution by Hamfactorial.

What would your manabase look
like?

[zemanjaski]

Stop talking about splashing blue.

[Aodh]

Just beat UW on a mulligab to 4 lol. Keep Sacred Foundry, Boros Charm, Temple of Triumph, and Magma Jet. Win involves main phase Boros Charm to evade counter magic, Trouble for 7, Dreadbore on Archangel of Thune, and Annihilating Fire + Lightning Strike in response to Sphinx's Tegelation.

[Elricity]

Stop talking about splashing blue.

Or that putting 4 mana in the deck is even a splash.

Ham needs some credit every once in a while.

[zenbitz]

I did test a blue counterburn deck ... turn // burn is really much, much worse than chained to the rocks.

Eidolon of Great Revel shortens games, doesn't it? That's how I think about it. There are times when you want to shorten the game, and times when you don't. Most standard decks play mostly 2-3 mana spells, so the asymmetry usually isn't that relevant - with the except of maybe RGx because not only do they have lots of 4s-5s but we generally have to race them. But even then the race is us plinking them for 2-3-4 and them hammering us for 12. Us going to -10 isn't relevant.

[Kaitscralt]

I will probably test RWu now.

[Elricity]

That reminds me, I should totally play with epic experiment at an fnm before that leaves standard.

[Pedros]

Long time ago there was a burn deck playing Epic Experiment that finished top 16 in premier event.

Just saying ^^

[Elricity]

And thus the Great DTR Aneurism Apocolypse began.

I'll go back in the corner now.

[warwizard87]

Just finished the 40 game set vs brave naya, the 2nd place deck from the last open. Pre board 13-7 post 11-9.....to be fair I drew my chains preboard often and not nearlybas often post board. Unflinching courge is a damned beating. Firedancer and reprisal were really good every time. Firedancer wasbest when I had two out if I only got one my win chances reduced if I drew two I felt like I couldn't lose. Brave the elements is sick.

Game one is a race to 0. Game two your trying to land a couple dancers and hope for a chained for Boris reckoner and trying to edge the win since unflinching courage is a beating if you don't keep it in the back of your mind at all times.

[LP, of the Fires]

The matchup is way more interesting then it should be. The naya players job is to not kill themselves with their lands(take less then 8 hopefully) and present the fastest clock while hopefully being able to stick a rampager.

The burn player has to do all the real work as they have to reassess race math every turn to figure out where the burn spells should be going and if they should play around brave. If you have chain and think they have brave, one thing you can do is point a shock at a lesser creature, and if they brave in response, shrug, then casual chain the bigger threat.

Another important thing to keep in mind is that if you're going to kill one of there guys, do it before combats announced as otherwise you leave yourself open to ghor-clan. In general though, it's in your best interest to only try to kill things when they're tapped out or in there second mainphase because selesnya charm does a decent ghor-clan
impression.

[Elricity]

Early game, assuming they don't tap out, you should burn on your turn rather than giving them free swings. It's only at 4 mana once they can pump+boros charm that you have to leave mana up to counter pump swings and wait until their main 2 to remove creatures.

[LP, of the Fires]

So Tyler Winn(guy who just won SCG open with burn) is awesome. Best quote:

"Plus with cards like warleaders helix, the goal is to kill your opponent. Not to kill them as fast as you can."

Dead is dead, no matter when it happens. This is mostly justifying wild guess in that losing a turn is basically not a big deal since it gives him another good turn 2 play.

[Pedros]

Attacking with mutavault, magmajeting to setup your draws, playing boros charm or lightning strike or just playing another scry land isnt good play?

I dont disagree with wild guess, however it isnt even card advantage.

[BrainsickHater]

I think he found the synergy with Chandra's Phoenix way too cute and then he found a way to justify it.

Don't play Wild Guess.

[magicdownunder]

Here are the rest of the videos with that failed land experiment deck I had going (Revel does fairly well in the burn mirror (even though I didn't...))

SE Report 7087285
G1 R1 Naya Hexproof vs Rezzel MDU SE 7087285
G1 R2 Naya Hexproof vs Rezzel MDU SE 7087285
G1 R3 Naya Hexproof vs Rezzel MDU SE 7087285

G2 R1 G Devotion vs
Rezzel MDU SE 7087285
G2 R2 G Devotion vs Rezzel MDU SE 7087285
G2 R3 G Devotion vs Rezzel MDU SE 7087285

G3 R1 Jund Monster vs Rezzel MDU SE 7087285
G3 R2 Jund Monster vs Rezzel MDU SE 7087285
G3 R3 Jund Monster vs Rezzel MDU SE 7087285

DE Finals 7074969[/
b]
G4 R1 Rw Burn vs Rezzel MDU DE 7074969
G4 R2 Rw Burn vs Rezzel MDU DE 7074969
G4 R3 Rw Burn vs Rezzel MDU DE 7074969

Since then I moved backed too the mutavault version and I feel much more comfortable for it (I'm on Gates over MC though since I seen people take 3-5 damage from it, we're usually not trying rush out a kill so the citpt isn't THAT much of an issues (I have 8 citpt lands)). I do have a recorded finish with that list which I'll post tomorrow, though that will be last video for awhile since I'll be rather busy for the next week or so.

Animation

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NYDcQnnflw

Here is the channel for more videos

[Lightning_Dolt]

Had some time to test today... here are my observations:

First: The SCG open list actually plays much better than I thought it would. It appears that it was actually reasonably well thought out and I was too soon to judge / be critical.

Eidolon of the Great Revel: Actually pretty good in the current meta. I'm willing to admit I was wrong on this. UW has to counter it / remove it immediately or it just kills them. Also very good in the burn mirror.

Wild Guess: I personally disagree with this one. Not a fan. I see your point LP, but I'm not looking to durdle on T2, or any other turn really.

Banishing Light: I still like it, but only as a one of.

Shock is still good. Still really good, and with Firedrinker Satyr it's actually not dead VS Control. You can
either shoot a Mutavault or attack into Ram, punk Satyr and Shockthe shit out of it.

Flames of the Firebrand: Still prefer this to Searing Blood because you can kill two Pack Rats or a Nightveil Spectre. Can also cast it vs control without jumping through hoops. Also, just wins vs Aggro. When you guys see the Quarter Final video from my last event, you'll get to see me take the trip to value town.

Satyr Firedancer: Steps in for Eidolon vs GR and other matches where he is disastrous. I also prefer Firedncer vs Aggro. Firedancer makes Mizzium Mortars superfluous. It's ok to lose G1 here is you just wreck the 2+3.

[card]Wear // Tear[/card] Answers Ram for one mana, or Dsphere, Oring etc. It's better now than it's ever been.

[
card]Harness by Force[/card]: Really is strictly better than Act of Treason. I have been able to strive and win games I had no business winning.

Dictate of the Twin Gods: Not a fan. You play it EoT, they let it resolve, then you play your kill shot, they counter it, then kill you with double damage vaults etc.

Stormbreath Dragon: I win card vs UW. Works exactly the way it used to.

[Elricity]

He was trying to use wild guess with Phoenix to make it red divination. Which is...there?

I like that a counterspell 1 for 2's you. I like it so much that I'm leaving this for someone else to test.

[magicdownunder]

@J_S: Moving forward will you be on the Revel MD plan? I'm still very concerned about Monsters, Junk, rock and GW....

[Lightning_Dolt]

For right now, yes. Results have been positive so far.

[Elricity]

When you guys see the Quarter Final video from my last event, you'll get to see me take the trip to value town.

When are they putting those up, anyway?

So, are you satyr or YP in your sideboard then?

[LP, of the Fires]

I get both arguments on harness. If you strive it, it wins the game, on the other hand, it's color intensive where act of treason isn't allowing you to act, and seering blood/charm the same turn if you're mutavault flooded or whatever.

Tyler commented that it didn't really matter because it was just filler anyway.

[warwizard87]

I'm on Eidolon also, admit I was wrong on the guy. I still no like him main, still think pyromancer is better main, but after board Eidolon is a house.