[Primer] Boros Burn

[Lightning_Dolt]

Videos don't seem to work yet, but here is the coverage / decklists:

http://www.mtgcanada.com/canadian-magic ... to-may-10/

The other Burn deck had some interesting choices...

I also think I might change the one of Temple of Malice for a 1 of Temple of Silence. There were a few times I had issues hitting white...

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'm also probably going to start writing for that site. It's for free, but maybe some day a site will pick me up like Z. If i ever make the pro tour, I'll have a sponsor too.

[zemanjaski]

Nice one.

[Lightning_Dolt]

The owner was really nice, and he runs great tournaments. He's trying to make it like Canada's SCG Open Series. Reasonable prices on things on the store too.

[Elricity]

Videos don't seem to work yet, but here is the coverage / decklists:

http://www.mtgcanada.com/canadian-magic ... to-may-10/

The other Burn deck had some interesting choices...

I also think I might change the one of Temple of Malice for a 1 of Temple of Silence. There were a few times I had issues hitting white...

Seems reasonable in that build. I want 19 R if I'm going turn 1 or two red though.

[Lightning_Dolt]

You're probably right, probably just variance.

[Elricity]

Probably but you do get a slight percentage tick in gaining a white source and you lose almost nothing losing a red source if your double red isn't until phoenix. It's a good swap.

/math

[Rhyno]

yes but all they did was merely see it in a decklist with no context how the card is good. how is seeing a card with not context all of a sudden make the card worth testing where it was a joke the day before. What would have happened if I was the only one running the card and came back and said that the card was good but I didnt quite get there in the top 8. I would have been met with fierce resistance yet again. I just dont see how the card being in a winning decklist makes it an auto test card. I cant tell you how many times I have read tourney reports of poeple who top 8 and said well this card sucks so if i had to do it all over again I would change it. Just because the card is in a winning decklist doesnt make it an auto test card. what if they also ran
titans strength and still got top 8?

Going undefeated at a major event IS the context. If you put up big results at a major event it'd also lend credence to your argument. I'm not saying it makes or breaks an argument, it just adds to it.
None of this is unusual or problematic. Thinking a card might be good, and seeing a card perform well at major events are two very normal reasons to test out a card. Either reason is sufficient.

If a deck performs well outside of my expectations, yes, that is a reason for me to test it. What is the problem with that?

The other Burn deck had some interesting choices...

Is that other sideboard typed up correctly?

But seriously fuck me these players are bad.

Is it possible that missing every Soldier of the Pantheon trigger was a meta choice? I'm not sure if free lifegain is good against burn.

[Lightning_Dolt]

It's possible that there was a mistake with the SB.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Maybe even probable.

[BiddingMaster]

everyone should go back to the scg coverage at knoxville and skip all the way to 16:40:00 and you will see me loose to kendell burdette in game three to some awkward draws. Hopefully z wasnt talking about me when he said man those were some bad players .

[Elricity]

You're probably right, probably just variance.

Specifically what I meant was if you were needing to cast ash zealot turn 2. 18 vs 19 red when you only need double red turn 3 is about 0.5% difference.

[BrainsickHater]

@Rhyno: Would you be willing to trade any of them spicy dictate promos?

[Purp]

Well Z, you based a lot of your decisions off of your results at 1Ks and 5Ks, which are equal or lesser competition than an SCG Open(considering a majority of GP top 8 finishers are SCG grinders) would be. If you want to discount results from ALL things that arn't GPs, be my guest. But in North America, SCG/TCG results shape our metagame. Those events shape the metagame of our GPs.

[Purp]

Expect to see more NVS and Whips in the coming week to combat all the burn.

[BiddingMaster]

Expect to see more NVS and Whips in the coming week to combat all the burn.

well. in the states anyway. Im not sure how scg results effect other countries. Well z is right about one thing. I routinely see people who go to scg events who just arent that good. Its the curse of any open event because random store level people still drive hours at a time and pay $40 just for that chance that they might be lucky enough to make it. Where as if it was an event that you had to grind to get there the competition would be greater. Also another point to make is that there are many scg events so it gives more store lvl people the opportunity to go, but gp and pts are held only so often and are far enough away to give it enough exclusivity. I dont go to many gps so
I dont know exactly how scg open result effect gp turnouts so I might be completely wrong in all of this. Im not sure why causal people flock to scg open events. It might be becuase there are not as many pro players there like luis-scott vargas, willy edel, the german juggernaut, johnny magic, shuhei nakamura, gabriel nassif so i guess they beleive the competition is lower because the scg grinders are known but they are not household names like the ones I just listed. Also mtg is alot bigger here in the states than it is in other countries so it just be because we have alot more people playing that the acverage skill lvl is lower because we have more fnm heros than we do actual grinders who do well regularly. I think both purp and z have valid aruguements but its good to keep both of them im perspective of what kind of people play magic in different countries. Just remember guys, your both pretty.

[Purp]

Just as many casual players attend GPs as they would opens, as the experience at a GP is greater.

[BiddingMaster]

I wished that someone would explain to me why dirty casuals would want to drive hundreds of miles and spend $25-$40 to play in a highly compettitive event? When I was a casual player the store level events were enough competition for me to handle.

[Lightning_Dolt]

To test their mettle. You have to start somewhere.

[Purp]

The experience of attending a GP is what appeals to casuals, where as the competition/prize payout is what appeals to competitive players.

[Elricity]

1) For the experience and higher quality players
2) Because they don't realize how bad they are
3) For the same reason people gamble in games with bad returns in Vegas

I'm regularly guilty of #2. Last season I had silence in my sideboard.

I'm switching to MTGO for #1. Unlikely I'll even invest in a paper deck next cycle just due to my schedule.

[Elricity]

Is it possible that missing every Soldier of the Pantheon trigger was a meta choice? I'm not sure if free lifegain is good against burn.

I tried looking for these videos but it doesn't look like SCG hosts them, do they? I'm amused that it doesn't look like they put that in their write ups.

[BiddingMaster]

Is it possible that missing every Soldier of the Pantheon trigger was a meta choice? I'm not sure if free lifegain is good against burn.

I tried looking for these videos but it doesn't look like SCG hosts them, do they? I'm amused that it doesn't look like they put that in their write ups.

go to twitch.tv and for look scg open knoxville

[Valdarith]

Is it possible that missing every Soldier of the Pantheon trigger was a meta choice? I'm not sure if free lifegain is good against burn.

I tried looking for these videos but it doesn't look like SCG hosts them, do they? I'm amused that it doesn't look like they put that in their write ups.

https://www.youtube.com/user/starcitygamesvideo

They usually post coverage of the events a couple of
days afterward. Meanwhile you can access the full-length stream on twitch.tv.

[Lightning_Dolt]

1) For the experience and higher quality players
2) Because they don't realize how bad they are
3) For the same reason people gamble in games with bad returns in Vegas

I'm regularly guilty of #2. Last season I had silence in my sideboard.

I'm switching to MTGO for #1. Unlikely I'll even invest in a paper deck next cycle just due to my schedule.

yeah, # 2 for my first one.

[magicdownunder]

First Draft

---

[deck=MDU's Rezzel Draft 1]Lands 21
9 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Creatures 10
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Eidolon Of The Great Revel

Enchantments 04
4 Chained to the Rocks

Instants 25
2 Searing Blood
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
3 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard 15
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Toil // Trouble
2 Eidolon Of The Great Revel
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Reprisal
1 Banishing Light[/deck]

Land Explanation:
THIS IS A MODO RESPONSE DECK (mtgo is known for its deck of the week nature) right now Gx and Sheeps are being heavily played so Mutavaults don't really do that well in getting around 0/3 hexproof plants or 0/5 sheep.

SE Report 7086573
[url=https&#
58;//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNkDiARp2Z0&lis ... y6m7Azu4Ma]G1 R1 Bg Devotion vs Rezzel (MDU) SE 7086573[/url]
G1 R2 Bg Devotion vs Rezzel (MDU) SE 7086573

G2 R1 UW Control vs Rezzel (MDU) SE 7086573
G2 R2 UW Control vs Rezzel (MDU) SE 7086573

G3 Split

Initial Thoughts:
1) While I initially wrapped the land base to provide are more consistence stream of color and scry as an experiment - I ended up really enjoying it, I feel that the more chances I have at making decisions ultimately
increases my odds of winning.
2) Rakdos Cackler under-performed, I kept thinking about him as a T1 play that I forgot that you don't always draw him on T1 in which case once it hits the T3 mark he is next too worthless
3) Some MUs Revel is outright HORRIBLE!! (unless your ahead)

[deck=MDU's Rezzel Draft 2]Lands 22
9 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Mutavault

Creatures 8
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Enchantments 04
4 Chained to the Rocks

Instants 26
2 Searing Blood
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Sideboard 15
4 Toil // Trouble
4 Eidolon Of The Great Revel
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Reprisal
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Banishing Light[/deck]

This is the 2nd draft I went with after discussing with Lazer, so far the first result was 3-0 beating Naya
Hexproof, G Devotion and Jund Monsters.

[Elricity]

You're missing 2 creatures in your maindeck.

[NotARobot]

The 2 YPs did throw me for a loop for a second.

[Tanro]

I think 4 mutavault is also probably ideal in a control heavy meta. So many free games on the back of drawing multiple vaults.

[zemanjaski]

Well Z, you based a lot of your decisions off of your results at 1Ks and 5Ks, which are equal or lesser competition than an SCG Open(considering a majority of GP top 8 finishers are SCG grinders) would be. If you want to discount results from ALL things that arn't GPs, be my guest. But in North America, SCG/TCG results shape our metagame. Those events shape the metagame of our GPs.

I actually didn't.

I base my decisions from:
- MTGO grinding where I am one of the best players online
- playing with team channel fireball
- playing with team sneak and show (#1 team in the southern hemisphere)

I don't sit here and say "hey, I won this 5K, here is THE DEFINITIVE burn list".

[magicdownunder]

I think 4 mutavault is also probably ideal in a control heavy meta. So many free games on the back of drawing multiple vaults.

Go for it (This is a tempt meta experience in dealing with creatures and pushing land bases).

That said I prefer the additional "Scry" for now so I can dig for Revels and/or T//T because Sheep and friends have been blanking my creature approach D:.

@All: whoops I'll toss the extra two YP$ back in again

[Tanro]

Maybe all the Control Players around here just suck then. I have been playing 4 Mutavaults since I picked up this deck. I also use YP$ and not Ash. I tryed ash once. I went 2-2 that night. Every other event has been 3-1 or better whilst getting myself into playoffs.

My current 75:
[deck]1 Satyr Firedancer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

3 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Searing Blood
2 Chained to the rocks

4 Mutavault
3 Mana Confluence
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
8 Mountain

3 Anger of The gods (BW Humans Hate Card)
3 Viashino First Blade
2 Banishing Light
2 Blind Obedience
2 Spark Trooper
2 Satyr Firedancer
1 Dictate of the Twin Gods[/deck]

I have to say Dictate EOT when the control player taps out for turn 4 jace so he can fend off your YP$ tokens into a turn 6 Land - Spark Trooper - Boros Charm Double strike play
sequence is lots and lots of fun. Of course that only works on the play. I still have found dictate to be really good, or a really dead card.

3 Anger is a local meta call. As soon as everyone and his brother decided BW Humans isn't worth when both the burn players and the 2-3 UWR control players are running hose cards that one goes back to mortars or possible 2 mortars/1 chained split.

[magicdownunder]

Maybe all the Control Players around here just suck then.

No no no... Mutavault is GREAT against control, don't let anyone convince you otherwise.... they did get slightly weaker by sheep but they're still VERY VERY good.

I'm just not running them for an experiment (please don't misunderstand I don't think vaults is bad).

[Rhyno]

I had a weird day at Standard tonight. Went 3-1.

In Round 1 I got COMPLETELY blown out by Rakdos Return for 3 in both games. Just destroyed. He was running a burn deck, it didn't really matter what he was on though.

Then in my next 3 rounds my opponents punted at least 1 of the games.

Eidolon was good against B/G as expected, but it was mostly just an Ash Zealot that hurt me. I'll be able to start testing more intensively soon.

I'm just not running them for an experiment (please don't misunderstand I don't think vaults is bad).

I'm interested to see how it goes, it's not something I'm willing to test in paper meta.

[Tanro]

Maybe all the Control Players around here just suck then.

No no no... Mutavault is GREAT against control, don't let anyone convince you otherwise.... they did get slightly weaker by sheep but they're still VERY VERY good.

I'm just not running them for an experiment (please don't misunderstand I don't think vaults is bad).

No I mean, the control players here have failed to pick up the sheep. Even the one that runs the AoT, Brimaz, and friends sideboard strategy.

[BrainsickHater]

Just gonna post the list I'll be trying out and my thoughts behind it cuz why not

[deck]
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

3 Chained to the Rocks

4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Searing Blood

4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain

Sideboard
2 Harness By Force
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Dictate of the Twin Gods
2 Wear // Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil // Trouble
[/deck]

Sideboard Plans:

Bx Devotion:
-2 Searing Blood, -4 Shock, -3 Boros Charm
+2 Harness by Force, +2 Chandra, +2 Dictate, +2 Wear, +1 Chained

UWx Control:
-2 Searing Blood, -4 Shock, -3 Chained
+2 Chandra, +2 Dictate, +2 Wear, +3 Trouble

Dredge:
-
4 Skullcrack, -4 Boros Charm, -2 Shock
+2 Harness, +2 Wear, +2 Chandra, +3 Mortars, +1 Chained
I'm very unsure about this SB plan. I've seen a wide range of tech come in from the BG Dredge players including Nylea's Disciple. Usually if they play it in the early game(aka when it actually matters) it's only for around 3-5 life, but that still bites. I want to go on the plan of stripping them of threats and leaning on Chandra to grind out the game, but idk if that's feasible. The last post-board match I played against Dredge I tried to grind my opponent out but he managed to keep 2 fatties. I ended up just Harnessing him which put him in range of a couple burn spells. It might just be that Harness is strong enough we can board out Skullcrack and kill our opponents even if they are playing Nylea's disciple.

Big creature decks:
-4 Skullcrack, -4 Boros Charm
+2 Harness, +2 Chandra, +1 Chained, +3 Mortars

Small creature decks:
-4 Skullcrack, -
2 Boros Charm
+2 Chandra, =1 Chained, +3 Mortars

Mirror:
-4 Shock, -1 Searing Blood
+2 Chandra, +2 Wear // Tear, +1 Chained to the Rocks
Not sure if this is correct, I haven't played the mirror too much. It could be that shock is really good for tempo when removing opposing creatures and boarding 2 Wear is too reactive.

Other Stuff:
I think I'm off Banishing Light. There was only one time I ever was glad to have it, and that was to get rid of a Jace when I had a Young Pyro out, so it wasn't even really necessary. While it's nice to have removal that isn't dead against control, the enchantment feels pretty bad in virtually every other matchup. Also, Wear // Tear has gotten a lot better and I love the card right now.

I'm trying out Trouble against control as the word on the street is that FDS isn't great right now; I believe that. It just sucks because I really hate Trouble. The only matchup where I'm confident it will do work is
against control, but it's very prone to getting countered and costing 3 mana puts it in that awkward spot where we can't cast another spell off our sweet spot of four lands.

I'm also trying out dictate. It seems to me that you just EOT flash this in against MB, untap and win the game if your hand hasn't been totally raped. I'm trying it against control too because I want to see how it performs, but it might just be the case that it's very difficult to find a window to play the card unless they tap out, which is a situation we already usually win from.

Overall I think my list is pretty stock, and it feels damn good to play. If anyone knows of any tech that's good against control right now that doesn't get walled by hate or isn't the clunky trouble, let me know.

[warwizard87]

Got a state's champs this weekend, expected meta, bx Devotion, u/wx control, monsters, naya, ux devotion

List as current

[Deck]

4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 magma jet
4 warleaders helix
4 young pyromancer
4 lighting strike
4 chained to the rocks
4 shock
4 boros charm
4 skullcrack
1 satyr firedancer

8 mountain
4 sacred foundry
4 temple of triumph
3 mutavault
2 temple of silence
1 boros guild gate
1 mana confluance

Sideboard
4 eidolon of the great revel
3 firedancer satyr
2 Chandra, pyromaster
2 reprisal
2 wear/tear
1 mizzium mortars
1 banishing light

[/deck]

Doing this on a cell phone sucks ass btw so I hope I formatted that right.

Eidolon is on a trial run, so far when its been good its been good, when its been bad its been awful. So we will see if he dosnt pan out it will become toil/trouble most likely.

[magicdownunder]

BTW, I'll still be testing my craze "scry" happy list but I strongly believe Zemanjaski has the best manabase, I do think the results from SCG will shift our SB around a little but it should just be business are usual (building your SB is usually half the game so you should be net decking it anyways unless you can justify it).

- - - - -

If I was to take a list too an event today it would be:

[deck=MDU's Rw Burn]Lands 23
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Mana Confluence
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence

Creatures 08
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Exile 03
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Banishing Light

Burn 26
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Searing Blood

Sideboard 15
4 Toil // Trouble
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chained to the Rocks
2
Reprisal[/deck]

(I think my old land base with with 4+ non-red-sources is much too greedy with Revel and Blood throw into the mix)

Based on the SCG results and my own testing I found Rezel too be an effective card against control and a decent skill testing card against Bx Devotion, I DON'T recommend it MD unless you KNOW your meta 100%.

The Reprisal could just be [card]Wear // Tear[/card] but I found Junk too be a real threat though Monster deck are more common (Reprisal doesn't have enough targets vs Monster T_T).

[warwizard87]

I'm not sure if I'm ready to give up Chandra

Couldn't sleep so I did a ten game set vs u/w post side and kept track of damage from Eidolon, in the ten games Eidolon was cast/drawn in 9 out of the 10. In the nine games Eidolon dealt a average of 4.77 damage. That's counting attacks and triggers. Seems legit vs blue white control decks.

[magicdownunder]

I'm not sure if I'm ready to give up Chandra

Then run her

This is just my take on the SB plan, I have odd hinge card just for a random MU which most of you will likely won't face (Junk, BW control, BR Rock, G Devo, B Aggro) I'm also running 4x on Revel and 4x T//T so that is a huge over-commitment on my part since I despise control...

Cut down any of those cards for things you like and it would be fine