[Primer] Boros Burn

[Elricity]

Or wear.

Just remember, you only have room for 8-9 reactive spells in the 75. I'm personally still against more than 3 reactive spells maindeck.

[zenbitz]

The Purp list basically subbed a Banishing Light for a Searing Blood... which is eyebrow raising. Clearly that's worse vs. anyone running 1-2 Toughness dudes, but may be better vs. the meta. I was about to call searing blood a reactive spell... but clearly it's not really the same thing. It is ... less flexible than Strike. O-ring 2.0 has some aggressive utility as well, freeing imprisoned pheonixes... but that's still reactive, isn't it.

I guess the question for me is - how useful is 2 banishing light main deck vs. UWx control? Because that is where chained is mostly dead.

[JohnnyfnB]

Guys, reactive proactive shmoactive. It's about having the right cards in your deck. We are a burn deck we want burn spells that are instants, so we can do 20 pts to the dome. Sprinkled in between them are cards that help us get to that point that burn can't handle. As long as they answer the problems that our deck has against certain cards and certain decks, who cares if it's reactive or proactive. In Magic you have to do both, theres no way around. As long as the theme and synergy of your deck isn't watered down and you can effectively navigate through your meta on a winning path, that's all that matters.

Our burn deck is a tempo deck that becomes aggressive if we need it and we can shift gears to control. It's about being flexible. Like Bruce Lee said, "Be like water."

[Purp]

2 Chain 2 Banishing Light felt great. Helped me answer Whip in G1. Searing Blood is arguably the worst card in the deck, and not necessary if you don't think you need it. I am comfortable playing against any aggro deck without searing blood, I still feel favored.

I like that Reprisal also kills Advent.

Act of Aggression against midrange decks could be a thing.

[Elricity]

Yes, banishing light is still a reactive spell even if it's freeing a phoenix from d-sphere because they need to play their spells first before you do something to it. Searing blood needs them to play creatures. Just because they do damage doesn't mean they aren't reactive.

For a while there, searing blood was so certain to go off that it didn't matter that it was reactive. Now that people aren't playing into it as often, it's true nature comes out and why it's been slipping in spots in the deck. It's a narrow card which ranges from terrible to amazing and requires actual attention on whether it gets included.

Johnny, there's a smidge of truth in there, but mostly, it matters quite a bit whether you have the option of setting the flow of the game or not. If you're going to be reactive, you better be doing something powerful. Assembling 20 points of damage from instant spells is not powerful in standard. It's
barely even powerful in modern.

And that's why, game 1, you don't want to load up on too many cards that don't kill your opponent because we are not generally doing powerful things game 1.

[Purp]

[deck]3 YP$
2 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Shock
4 WLH

2 Banishing Light
2 Chained to the Rocks

8 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice
1 Mana Conflux

SB
1 Mutavault
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Chained to the Rocks (OR 1 Chained and 1 Reprisal)
3 Mizzium Mortars (OR 2 Mortars and 1 BO)
2 Wear//Tear
3 Toil//Trouble
1 Chandra, Pyromaster[/deck]

[magicdownunder]

The Purp list basically subbed a Banishing Light for a Searing Blood... which is eyebrow raising. Clearly that's worse vs. anyone running 1-2 Toughness dudes, but may be better vs. the meta. I was about to call searing blood a reactive spell... but clearly it's not really the same thing. It is ... less flexible than Strike. O-ring 2.0 has some aggressive utility as well, freeing imprisoned pheonixes... but that's still reactive, isn't it.

Why do we care about the Aggro MU when we're already favored?

Top 8'd my IQ yesterday. Lost R1 to my playtesting buddy playing BG, grinded out 4
wins and then lost to him again in R1 of the top 8. Deck is tough to beat. With that and UW doing so well this weekend, I need to start getting the deck ready for SCG Knoxville next weekend.

I'm glad you decided too go with the 4x Exile route (was I correct about my meta assessment?), I HIGHLY recommend 2x SBD in your 75x vs UW control because its a PROVEN strategy - in regards with Bg I don't think its a horrible MU (esp. if your accustomed in playing against Junk or Bw....) its just a SB'ing nightmare because it flips the 'usual anti-black plan on its head' - Boros Charm suddenly becomes good, Assemble the Legions suddenly loses some of its venom and Exile enchantments are no longer your permanent answers.

I'll either PM you the SB'ing plan I'll take against them once I return from work or we can discuss it here if you don't mind leaking information about your next event.

@Titian Strength: its horrible in Burn, same with flamespeaker because they'
re both cards which require other cards too be viable - I know some of you want to counter this argument by saying that YP$ is in the same boat however with YP$ your still just pointing your burn at your Opp. face which is your primary goal while with flame and TS you need a clear board.

[NotARobot]

I'm considering testing a list with destructive revelry and temples of abandon instead of the black splash scrys, at least in the place of Wear/ Tear in the sb. Any thoughts? Hitting sheep, coursers, other chains / lights/ whips ect ect and doing 2 to the face seems nice. Has anyone else tested this out extensively?

[zenbitz]

Why do we care about the Aggro MU when we're already favored?

Well, it's hardly a bye. I didn't say swapping out a Searing blood for an OR2 was *bad*, I raised my eyebrow to indicate it was intriguing. What I find interesting about banishing light is that it's good against lots of CARDS but I am not sure it's good in specific MATCHUPS. That still could make it good because it saves spots in the 75.

If we were to make take the basic 60 for every game 1, but have a special 15 card SB for BG devotion, what would those 15 cards be? I am not sure Assemble makes the cut, although I guess we are overloading golgari charm. Vraksa doesn't seem like a big deal, just have to keep her from ultimating and untapping (or have a bunch of tokens).

Chandra seems good if they board out Downfall. In general haste creatures would be OK if they cut removal.
How does BG SB against
Burn?
+2 Golgari Charm
+4 Duress
+2 Doom Blade
-4 Underworld Connections
-4 Lifebane Zombie?

Or leave a few of those in and take out some downfall/devour flesh?

[Elricity]

I'm considering testing a list with destructive revelry and temples of abandon instead of the black splash scrys, at least in the place of Wear/ Tear in the sb. Any thoughts? Hitting sheep, coursers, other chains / lights/ whips ect ect and doing 2 to the face seems nice. Has anyone else tested this out extensively?

Do not ever run a spell in standard if you don't have 10 sources for it. This jumps up to at least 14 if it has double mana symbols. Mind you, these are bare minimum and I would actually suggest more.

[Tanro]

I ran golgari charm in RG Monsters with 1 shock, 1 scry, and 4x caryatids. 6 source, 4 of which were non land.... Worked fine.

[Aodh]

That's wrong.

[Lightning_Dolt]

#Magicxmasland

[Elricity]

A place where every boy should visit and every man should grow out of.

I should add that creature mana sources count as only maybe 1/4 - 1/3 of a land.

[Purp]

Here was one of the supere IQ winning lists:

[deck]
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice
9 Mountain
1 Mana Confluence
4 Mutavault
3 Shock
4 Searing Blood
3 Satyr Firedancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Warleader's Helix
Sideboard:
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Burning Earth
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Wear
1 Satyr Firedancer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
[/deck]

[magicdownunder]

That a solid meta list

I can't see G Devotion, U Devotion or aggro really beat it, though I wouldn't take it against a field of Black and control....

@All: I'll hopefully be able too play and record again next week but RL is rather hectic for me this month so no promises.

P.S. I PM you purp best of luck mate

P.P.S. if you guys could sub or comment (even advice on how you would improve it) / spread information about my new short animation channel (its pure amateur work done with paint and everything ) which my mates and I intend to update
weekly (and eventually daily) that WOULD help dramatically

[JohnnyfnB]

Here was one of the supere IQ winning lists:

[deck]
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice
9 Mountain
1 Mana Confluence
4 Mutavault
3 Shock
4 Searing Blood
3 Satyr Firedancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Warleader's Helix
Sideboard:
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Burning Earth
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Wear
1 Satyr Firedancer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
[/deck]

That list is very close to mine. I think burn will be very completive for the rest of the season, even though we didn't get anything ground breaking. Very excited to burn some brews down at FNM.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Anger in the SB is interesting to me...

[Purp]

I sent him a message, his list seems so weak to a GOOD control player.

Ill post a list shortly I will try in testing tonight.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Cool!

[zenbitz]

I do miss those firedrinkers against control. Toil//Trouble never seems to be there for me when I need it.

How is this for magical xmas land. I lost a game 3 last night (Naya Monsters) to the following sequence:

I have 2 YP + 2 tokens, Phoenix, Guildgate, Charm and skullcrack in hand, 3 lands.
He has 5 lands + Carytid and 12 life.

He taps out for Elspeth + 1.
I play Phoenix, Hit elspeth (possible error, but as you will see it didn't matter)

He executes the following turn:
1) play temple garden, untapped, go to 10 life (7 mana open)
2) Play Xenegos, the Reveler (4 mana open)
3) +1 Elspeth (now has 6 soliders)
4) +1 Xenegos (10 mana open)
5) Play Archangel of Thune (5 mana open)
6) Warleaders' Helix my YP, gain 4 to 14, place 8 +1/+1 counters

[montu]

Toil//Trouble never seems to be there for me when I need it.s

While I've had some great hits with Trouble, and Toil has gotten me out of some tight spots, taking out of the mana base does make things more consistent.

[montu]

From Brian Demar's SCG article today:




http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28 ... nnati.html

[Purp]

And your point?

What I do find interesting is him saying about the amount of black aggro decks he faced.

[montu]

And your point?

Don't forget those cards in your SB if you play Naya Hexproof.

(Seriously, though, there are some interesting combat trick you could pull off with Electrickery, like swing Ash through a Carytid while killing an elf at the same time, not to mention how it sweeps aggro. But, yeah, they're both reactive cards.)

[Purp]

Seems like he mentions doing it for the Black matchups. Hexproof is already super favored vs burn, and if anything thats atleast a killable target.

[Purp]

Here was one of the supere IQ winning lists:

[deck]
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice
9 Mountain
1 Mana Confluence
4 Mutavault
3 Shock
4 Searing Blood
3 Satyr Firedancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Chained to the Rocks
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Warleader's Helix
Sideboard:
4 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Burning Earth
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Wear
1 Satyr Firedancer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
[/deck]

Here were his matchups, his only loss in Swiss to a Mono G

1 uw 1 dredge 2 mono g green 2 gb devotion 2 junk midrange

[Lightning_Dolt]

I do miss those firedrinkers against control. Toil//Trouble never seems to be there for me when I need it.

How is this for magical xmas land. I lost a game 3 last night (Naya Monsters) to the following sequence:

I have 2 YP + 2 tokens, Phoenix, Guildgate, Charm and skullcrack in hand, 3 lands.
He has 5 lands + Carytid and 12 life.

He taps out for Elspeth + 1.
I play Phoenix, Hit elspeth (possible error, but as you will see it didn't matter)

He executes the following turn:
1) play temple garden, untapped, go to 10 life (7 mana open)
2) Play Xenegos, the Reveler (4 mana open)
3) +1 Elspeth (now has 6 soliders)
4) +1 Xenegos (10 mana open)
5) Play Archangel of Thune (5 mana open)
6) Warleaders' Helix my YP, gain 4 to 14, place 8 +1/+1
counters

Being able to cast splash cards on >6 sources is MagicXmasLand.

[LaZerBurn]

I sent him a message, his list seems so weak to a GOOD control player.

Ill post a list shortly I will try in testing tonight.

I thought it looked quite good with FDS and VFB to come in!

[Purp]

The more I discuss with him, I am wondering if SFD might be in a better spot right now compared to YP$...

[montu]

The more I discuss with him, I am wondering if SFD might be in a better spot right now compared to YP$...

It is absolutely brutal to get on the board, in particular against the decks that don't have removal, where you can cast it on T2.

[Purp]

[deck]3 YP$
1 SFD
4 Chandra Phoenix[/deck]

[zenbitz]

I dunno 80% of the time you will never see it.

[Purp]

80% of the time I'd never see the 4th YP$ by that logic..

[LaZerBurn]

I want to test this when JiN hits MTGO 'cos why not

[deck]LaZerBurn Rough Draft[/deck]
Lands 23
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
9 Mountain
3 Boros Guildgate
3 Mutavault

Burn 26
3 Shock
3 Searing Blood
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Warleader's Helix

Monsters 8
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments 3
2 Chained to the Rocks
1 Banishing Light

Sideboard
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Viashino Firstblade
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Banishing Light
4 Satyr Firedancer
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
[/deck]

Mana needs tweaking to see if I can squeeze in another scry land and I'm not 100% on Chandra or MM in the SB. FDS might be better than Cackler.

[PirateKingAtomsk]

even if your're not seeing the 4th 80% of the time (not sure thats mathed out right) by running fewer copies you reduce the chance of seeing any at any point in a match.

[Purp]

FDS > Cackler because there will be an increase in Caratid. I'd play Toil over Firstblade, the Ram is going to be an auto 3 of in control sbs... That firstblade is going to look sad in your had when they drop a t2 ram.

[Purp]

Yeah im sure zen's math is way off, which was why I was sarcastic. The idea is that at 3 YP$ im fine with seeing that card more, however the % chance of having the SFD is probably equal to the % of the games I want him in.

[Lightning_Dolt]

@Zenbitz:

viewtopic.php?p=53032#p53032

[LaZerBurn]

FDS > Cackler because there will be an increase in Caratid. I'd play Toil over Firstblade, the Ram is going to be an auto 3 of in control sbs... That firstblade is going to look sad in your had when they drop a t2 ram.

Good point Purp, I forgot about the Ram!