[Primer] Boros Burn

[BiddingMaster]

Im closed on magic online btw. Now im thinking I need to change my forum name to reflect that. No that morning I played you on modo was my 4th 8 man that I lost in the first round. What is sbd?

[magicdownunder]

Stormbreath Dragon its kinda my pet card which I've been trying to push when UW was the dominate control deck - I gave up on it once Esper took over.

[BiddingMaster]

Im going to try 3 chained and 2 glares against uw. I have no idea how im dodging esper but only recently in the last week have seen more uw in the few weeks before that it was esper. I dont think I need any more slots devoted to the matchup. already I have 1 chandra 1 chained 2 glare coming in for it with mainboard tt. Further testing is needed to determine exactly how many slots I need. Hmm dragon seems good.

*edit* How many slots should I devote to it?

[BiddingMaster]

Im on UTC_5:00 easter time us&canada. and I play at 3 am usually when i get off work every other day or so. what decks are represented at those times?

[magicdownunder]

Im going to try 3 chained and 2 glares against uw. I have no idea how im dodging esper but only recently in the last week have seen more uw in the few weeks before that it was esper. I dont think I need any more slots devoted to the matchup. already I have 1 chandra 1 chained 2 glare coming in for it with mainboard tt. Further testing is needed to determine exactly how many slots I need. Hmm dragon seems good.

*edit* How many slots should I devote to it?

Seriously don't run 5 removal spells vs Control, burn is kinda like a combo deck if you take out too many pieces it stops working (this is esp. true vs decks with CA like Bx Devotion and UWx Control).

2x Glares is enough (keep in mind Boros Charm can kill FSP as well), with your 4x T//
T outside the insane 2-3 FSP draws you should be able to win if you keep your head - if not go with Ash Zealots (they're safer to run then SBD) here is an example of what they do too FSP:

Standard Elimination R1 Blind Zurm vs UW Control Event 6884840 <-- he is in the top100

Im on UTC_5:00 easter time us&canada. and I play at 3 am usually when i get off work every other day or so. what decks are represented at those times?

I have no idea since I usually just play from 7:00 PM-11:00 PM (GMT +10), though recently I've found myself logging on earlier or later just to chat with the DtR clan members .

[montu]

Im closed on magic online btw. Now im thinking I need to change my forum name to reflect that. No that morning I played you on modo was my 4th 8 man that I lost in the first round. What is sbd?

Oh, wow. You beat me 3rd game of a DE a few days ago. 1st game was close, but 2nd game you nailed me with 2x Peak Eruption, which shut me down.

[BiddingMaster]

whoah that just blew my mind. charm+critter= dead fsp lol. would not have thought of that one.
The reason I wanted to have the chained and the glares also vs detention sphere. Ill take everything you say into advisement and test out the plan to see if it works. Im recording everything so if the numbers favor my plan ill go with it but if it favors your plan ill go with yours. So with my list what changes would you make to my sideboard. here is how i sideboard currently with my old sb. I probably need to find room for fds along with 2 glare.
mbc
+3 mortars if they have specter
+2 assemble
+2 chained
+1 chandra
-3 searing blood if they have specter
-2 shock
-3 boros charm
esper
-3 searing blood
-2 chained
+3 mortars
+1 chandra
+1 wear//tear
bw same as esper but with
-2 shock
-3 boros charm
+3 blind obedience
+2 assemble
mud
-4 tt
-4 skullcrack
+2 assemble
+1 chandra
+2 chained
+3 mortars
monsters
n+3 mortars
+2 chained
+3 blind obedience
-4 skullcrack
-4 tt
just to name a few

[BiddingMaster]

Im closed on magic online btw. Now im thinking I need to change my forum name to reflect that. No that morning I played you on modo was my 4th 8 man that I lost in the first round. What is sbd?

Oh, wow. You beat me 3rd game of a DE a few days ago. 1st game was close, but 2nd game you nailed me with 2x Peak Eruption, which shut me down.

yeah. I felt like you made some strange plays. I never tap down lower than 2 mana in the mirror no matter what. Also you need 4
mutavaults.

[magicdownunder]

@BiddingMaster:

We approach the SB very differently, I'm strongly against overly reactive boarding plans.

Thing likes:
3x Mortars, 1x W//T vs Esper
4x Chains, 2x Glare vs UW
3x Mortars vs Bx Devotion

Strike me as wrong - just imagine hitting those cards in the top-deck or having 1-2 in your hands with 0 targets , I feel that your win-rate vs control and Bx devotion would have suffer for it.

I'll post my SBP a little latter once all the requirements have been fulfilled:

I do have a sideboard plan with explanations written out - which I'll post either sometime after the sets are complete or if I get 9 new subs or 20 new comments from different people (yeah yeah, I'm fishing for higher view count - whatever works).

For the
time being I highly recommend reading Z's articles on CFB or watching some of my videos (while I'm not greatest player (so many misplays), I'm fairly confident in my SB and tweaking skills since I'm still ranked top30 while going inf. despite my occasional poor plays (which I'm working on ).

[gozmit97]

I'v been thinking, might Satyr Nix-Smith be better against control than Viashano Firstblade? It can grind games against control, and is better if they have Blind Obedience, but worse against Elspeth, the Sun's Champion, which they often board out against us.

[montu]

Im closed on magic online btw. Now im thinking I need to change my forum name to reflect that. No that morning I played you on modo was my 4th 8 man that I lost in the first round. What is sbd?

Oh, wow. You beat me 3rd game of a DE a few days ago. 1st game was close, but 2nd game you nailed me with 2x Peak Eruption, which shut me down.

yeah. I felt like you made some strange plays. I never tap down lower than 2 mana in the mirror no matter what. Also you need 4 mutavaults.

Haha, I tested the "vault-less" mana-base for a couple of days. Needless to say, I'm back to 4x.

I suck at the mirror, for sure. Well, I kinda suck in most matchups. But, at least I'm getting better over time.

It' probably doesn't help that I wake up and jump right on a DE at 5 am.

[BrainsickHater]

I'm working on my SB for an IQ in Syracuse, whose meta is apparently 3/4 GR monsters. I'm running a pretty stock YP list, and here's my SB so far:

[deck]
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Mutavault
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Blind Obedience
3 Toil // Trouble
[/deck]

I can't decide between Toil//Trouble and Firstblade, and I also would like to have 1-2x Wear//Tear / Glare of Heresy somewhere, but the SB feels pretty tight.
I seemed to me that Firstblade was just better than Trouble in every matchup I wanted to bring it in, but Toil's card draw seems good enough it might be better(?) How has T/T been performing for everyone, and do you guys think that BloB is not-prevalent enough in paper to get away with firstblade?

Also, if you have any ideas for cuts that would allow a Wear or Glare to get in, by all means post them.

[BrainsickHater]

I'm working on my SB for an IQ in Syracuse, whose meta is apparently 3/4 GR monsters. I'm running a pretty stock YP list, and here's my SB so far:

[deck]
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Mutavault
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Blind Obedience
3 Toil // Trouble
[/deck]

I can't decide between Toil//Trouble and Firstblade, and I also would like to have 1-2x Wear//Tear / Glare of Heresy somewhere, but the SB feels pretty tight.
I seemed to me that Firstblade was just better than Trouble in every matchup I wanted to bring it in, but Toil's card draw seems good enough it might be better(?) How has T/T been performing for everyone, and do you guys think that BloB is not-prevalent enough in paper to get away with firstblade?

Also, if you have any ideas for cuts that would allow a Wear or Glare to get in, by all means post them.

EDIT: Also, Peak Eruption? Is it worth inclusion?
I would love to play the card because its hella fun, but it seems loose against Burn and Monsters, I would probably be better off running BloB.

[JohnnyfnB]

Here is where I'm at for my list:

For those of you who can count, thats a 13 card sideboard. I need 2 slots for monsters/mirror/aggro decks.

Any suggestions? So far I'm considering Spark Trooper, Blind Obedience, Peak Eruption, another Wear // Tear, and Anger of the Gods

I think you'll get the most mileage out of Anger. It works great against Aggro, can slow down Monsters (kill their mana sources), and can be good in the mirror.
It can also get you out of the hexproof bind.

I'm going to continue to disagree as I always have. I do not want to sit there and take a beating hoping to get a 3 for 1 out of anger when I can just slam YP and go to town. If you want a 2 for 1 spell, just run flames.

I could not care less about killing Carytids. I want to kill everything else in that match up and Anger can't do it.

The window of Anger killing a relevant hexproof creature is on turn 2, max. Unfortunately, anger costs 3. Also, they already have to run a lot of wrath protection.

Perfectly said! Yes, Caryatid is important, but it does no damage to you, so just ignore it. Deal with threats not non threats. In my personal meta, players are getting more aggro and that made me call back SFD. The deck is working really well and I can't wait for FNM tonight.

[Elricity]

I'v been thinking, might Satyr Nix-Smith be better against control than Viashano Firstblade? It can grind games against control, and is better if they have Blind Obedience, but worse against Elspeth, the Sun's Champion, which they often board out against us.

While the card is good in a vaccum, in this deck, you really don't want to be committing mana in your upkeep. It and the firebreathing eidolon will both probably be good come rotation or in a different type of deck.

[Aodh]

Brainsick, if the metagame is 3/4 monsters, don't worry about fine-tuning your control sideboard package...

[BrainsickHater]

I still definitely expect to play against control and MB.

[Aodh]

Well of course. But you should build the deck with your main opposition in mind.

[BrainsickHater]

I think it's stupid to tell me not to worry about my Control SB package when I definitely am going to run some number of control cards and will definitely play against control. It is possible to worry about more than one thing at the same time.

[montu]

Yes, that red aggro deck is exactly the deck I was thinking of where I DON'T want Anger. Possibly a playstyle thing.

Though I am glad it's working for Mezzel. You would need 4 of, not 2, for it to be useful vs the red deck you listed though. I put it in the same camp as peak eruption where you either need 3-4 or 0.

Unlike Peak, I'm not using it as a "strategy" card. It's reserved if things get out of control. With burn, you can blow up both sides of the board and still win, particularly since you're reserving burn for the dome. I never want 2 copies in hand (although 1 in the opening hand is fine by me, I just hit them with burn, let them extend, and then wipe off the creatures). If I can't control the game with what I've drawn
into, Anger is a chance to reset.

I board in SFD and Anger.

[Elricity]

We really don't need more than 8 cards sideboard vs any deck. There's generally not enough low impact cards to remove.

That said, you already have 6 vs control. You could play glare but that strikes me as rather narrow if you know your meta game. Wear // Tear is not a card you want against control. I tend to like keeping some small number of shocks as it's good for YP and good for countering dspheres on phoenixes.

You can only get away with firstblades if that meta is very burn light like Z's was and people aren't building against it. Drinkers are an option over trouble as are ash zealots if you're worried about fiendslayers in the control matchup.

Montu, what if they never play a creature? That happens more than a little in the burn matchup. Going dancer/anger is opening up the possibility of dead cards in your hand while they beat up on you. I guess the better question is, what are you cutting to board them in?

[BrainsickHater]

We really don't need more than 8 cards sideboard vs any deck. There's generally not enough low impact cards to remove.

That said, you already have 6 vs control. You could play glare but that strikes me as rather narrow if you know your meta game. Wear // Tear is not a card you want against control. I tend to like keeping some small number of shocks as it's good for YP and good for countering dspheres on phoenixes.

You can only get away with firstblades if that meta is very burn light like Z's was and people aren't building against it. Drinkers are an option over trouble as are ash zealots if you're worried about fiendslayers in the control matchup.

Montu, what if they never play a creature? That happens more than a little in the burn matchup. Going
dancer/anger is opening up the possibility of dead cards in your hand while they beat up on you. I guess the better question is, what are you cutting to board them in?

I don't know the metagame superbly well, I've just heard things from other people. The main reason why I'm considering glare is because I'm terrified of Fiendslayer Paladin, but I think boarding creatures sounds like a better plan. Viashino Firstblade is probably out, since if the meta is monsters heavy control decks should be running BloB.

So here's my new dilemma; what creatures do I sideboard for control? I really want to run FireDrinker Satyr if I'm not running Firstblade, but if I play Satyr I really want to play it as a 4-of. In order to do that, I would need to cut something. The first thing that comes to mind is shaving a Mizzium Mortars. Question is, if I know I'm playing against a bunch of monsters, do I want less than 4 Mortars?

[montu]

Montu, what if they never play a creature? That happens more than a little in the burn matchup. Going dancer/anger is opening up the possibility of dead cards in your hand while they beat up on you. I guess the better question is, what are you cutting to board them in?

I never board them in against burn, just against small-creature aggro, Ux Devo, and on occasion against Bx Devo.

They usually replace a couple of Skullcracks (except for Bx Devo or Hexproof, obviously, where it's usually Shocks).

[montu]

Going dancer/anger is opening up the possibility of dead cards in your hand while they beat up on you.

If my opening 7 has Dancer and Anger, I consider that optimal for small aggro. I hit them with burn while they put creatures on the board, cast T3 Anger to wipe the board. And then T4 Dancer takes care of anything they put on the board after that.

If I draw Anger after my initial 7 and I'm controlling the board with Dancer, of course the only way I'll play it is if I'm getting over-run with creatures. If you're in that position, there are generally few cards that are going to win you the game had you drawn them instead of Anger. Anger buys you a couple of turns you probably wouldn't have had without it.

[zenbitz]

This is the deck im rocking right now. I have placed 3-1 in the three daily events and 0-4-0 in four 8 mans.
[deck]sideboard

1 chandra, pyromaster
2 chained to the rocks
3 peak eruption
3 mizzium mortars
2 assemble the legion
3 blind obedience
1 wear // tear[/deck]

So far with this deck the only matchup that I think I need to switch up the sideboard for is uw control. I have lost to it every match except for one and I loose because fiendslayer paladin blanks my phoenix. .

I still like firedrinker satyr in this matchup. Obviously not good against FSP, but you have outs (chained, block+boros charm)

[zenbitz]

1x Anger seems awful. 3xAnger I guess is a playstyle thing... (I will probably try in Ru)

[Elricity]

Brain, beyond a number of things, it depends on your playstyle. I'm comfortable playing control so I'm happy playing cards with card advantage and grinding out longer games which is what cards like Mortars and Chandra do. If you're less comfortable with that strategy, you want to shave down on your control spells and go more one drops and the like.

Montu, my apologies, I thought you were talking about bringing in Anger against burn, not using them with burn in your hand.

Sure, vs R devotion or AIR, if someone handed me a deck with Anger already in the board, I would have to use it. Now, if I was playing my normal deck and before the tournament someone said "Ok, everybody gets to use their 15 card sideboard and add 4 Angers into it! DOWN WITH THE RED DECKS!!1", I would never use it. My general paper format is 2 Chandra, 1 chain (up to 4), sub out the 8 lava spikes, and add in whatever my mix of mortar, BO,
Dancer, peak eruption is that week. Each are significantly better card advantage than Anger, hence my preference.

They also allow me a more fluid style of play. Say if I play my dancers hoping to get burn for any future creatures and then all I do is topdeck anger, do I sweep my own board to kill two of his now? I don't like having to put myself into that decision path which is what I feel anger does when you're playing YP, CP, and even Dancers. Anger has a place in a creatureless control deck like Dega or American, if those can ever be successful.

[BrainsickHater]

So you bring in MM against UW Control? Just to hit Archangel/FSP? That's very interesting and I hadn't thought of that. However I have definitely considered playing a grindier game against control, as I feel that trying to rush them down plays to the strength of their cards.

[BrainsickHater]

I was thinking my plan against control would be to bring in 2x Assemble, 2x Chandra, 1x Mutavault, and 3x Creatures. Chandra and Assemble can grind out a game, and the creatures would just let me steal wins. As I type this, I realize that this is not a cohesive plan; the creatures conflict directly with the plan to grind them out.

Well now I have 3 sideboard slots and I don't know what to do with them. Am I overthinking this? I feel kind of insane atm.

[montu]

Montu, my apologies, I thought you were talking about bringing in Anger against burn, not using them with burn in your hand.

Sure, vs R devotion or AIR, if someone handed me a deck with Anger already in the board, I would have to use it. Now, if I was playing my normal deck and before the tournament someone said "Ok, everybody gets to use their 15 card sideboard and add 4 Angers into it! DOWN WITH THE RED DECKS!!1", I would never use it. My general paper format is 2 Chandra, 1 chain (up to 4), sub out the 8 lava spikes, and add in whatever my mix of mortar, BO, Dancer, peak eruption is that week. Each are significantly better card advantage than Anger, hence my preference.

They also allow me a more fluid style of play. Say if I play my dancers
hoping to get burn for any future creatures and then all I do is topdeck anger, do I sweep my own board to kill two of his now? I don't like having to put myself into that decision path which is what I feel anger does when you're playing YP, CP, and even Dancers. Anger has a place in a creatureless control deck like Dega or American, if those can ever be successful.

There's no denying, it's a crutch card for me (which can be a very effective crutch). Maybe when I'm a stronger player I'll decide I don't need it.

FWIW, none of the Burn decks that placed in a SCG event in the last month had Anger in the SB. Maybe they know something.

[Aodh]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as bossy or anything. 75% monsters is outrageous. It's probably wrong, but if that's the ACTUAL metagame, then you absolutely don't need to focus on your anti-control cards. Our deck is meant to beat theirs without any help. I'd advocate enough sideboard slots to cover your chains (2-3) and bloods (0-3), then call it quits. In monsters metagame, you probably want the 3/3/3 package, so you'll need 6 sideboard cards for Esper (shock's still fine to buy back phoenixes and for pyromancer). +4 Mortars, +1 Chains, +2 Assemble the Legion (mandatory for MBD, IMO), so you have two slots left. Id run 2 BlOb or Spark Trooper, given your meta.

[Elricity]

So you bring in MM against UW Control? Just to hit Archangel/FSP? That's very interesting and I hadn't thought of that. However I have definitely considered playing a grindier game against control, as I feel that trying to rush them down plays to the strength of their cards.

I think I had monsters on the brain. No, I don't bring in any mortars unless they're representing thune or BBV and even then I think I only want one. I also don't recommend Assemble vs control because they have too many answers. There's nothing wrong with Drinkers.

[BrainsickHater]

I'm thinking about this SB actually:
[deck]
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Mutavault
1 Chained to the Rocks
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Blind Obedience
3 Ash Zealot
[/deck]
I prefer Ash Zealot against control because FSP. I could play 3 FDS instead, but I would need Boros Charm or 2 more toughness on board to take out a Pally.
Am I respecting FSP too much? I'm terrified of that card because it came down on Turn 3 against me before and I couldn't beat it.

EDIT: Is it enough to keep in 1x Chained as a hedge against FSP?

[Elricity]

1 chain would be max and I wouldn't do it until they actually show the card because if they choose BBV or Obzedat as their card of choice, you're in trouble. Particularly since you now have a potential of 7 cards that can stop it. Remember, they can dsphere your chain so it's not even that great. That sideboard is fine, just remember your game plans.

[Midnight_v]

Do you think the new magma spray, will have a lot of influence on the deck? There seem to be more and more exile effects... 1 for each major archtype now.

[Aodh]

If Xathrid Necromancer or Voice of Resurgence become popular, it might be worthy of consideration. I miss Pillar of Flame, TBH.

[Midnight_v]

If Xathrid Necromancer or Voice of Resurgence become popular, it might be worthy of consideration. I miss Pillar of Flame, TBH.

I had to re-read that thing but it actually can't hit players... I was shocked.

[Airdraken]

just a small thing, aren't we better making room for a mountain as mainboard inplace of blood crypt and bringing in BC when we want to run toil? (if we have the room in SB?) no sense taking 2 damage that's all?

[magicdownunder]

+4 Mortars, +1 Chains, +2 Assemble the Legion (mandatory for MBD, IMO)

(This is not posted directly at you Aodh)

This is prevalent view among our new posters, board in 10000x removals or reactive cards against control decks (including the likes of Esper, Bx and UW).

I tried too explain that diluting your deck is bad vs anything with CA just last page (it maybe two pages back at this point) but - the discussion continues, can someone who shares this view justify it too me?

[BrainsickHater]

Yeah when I board against MB I only board in one piece of removal. It feels much worse to be playing reactively against a deck that boards in discard against us than to be executing a game plan. My mandatory MB cards are +2 Chandra, +2 Assemble, +1 Mutavault, +1 Chained