[Primer] Boros Burn

[RedNihilist]

How is the deck faring against Reid Duke's Junk Midrange (reference: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/cov ... ith_r.html )?
I played a game (please note: I'm not a dedicated Burn player like you guys, my main deck is monoB at the moment) against this today and found out that Thoughtseize into Caryatid into Courser of Kruphix into Archangel of Thune into Elspeth can be quite embarassing, but I guess not all games go that way.
Still, it features 6 reliable lifegain sources (Courser, Obzedat) + 6 (Thune, Scavenging Ooze), so I was wondering how you guys find the matchup.

[magicdownunder]

In theory its a horrible MU - my experiences against them however has been positive.

[LaZerBurn]

It's not favourable but it is winnable and thankfully it's only 3.22% of the meta on MTGO

[RedNihilist]

Thanks guys

[magicdownunder]

@Closed:

Good game - it was quite close, I ended up winning that event beating you, Junk and another Rw Burn deck.

I'll be uploading that set next week Wednesday, I can upload it earlier if you want since I make some comments about your sequencing choices (if you also recorded it from you end we can do a back-to-back analysis, which would be much better since all of my comments are based on how I read your hand (which could just be wrong )).

[DixieFlatline]

@Closed:

Good game - it was quite close, I ended up winning that event beating you, Junk and another Rw Burn deck.

I'll be uploading that set next week Wednesday, I can upload it earlier if you want since I make some comments about your sequencing choices (if you also recorded it from you end we can do a back-to-back analysis, which would be much better since all of my comments are based on how I read your hand (which could just be wrong )).

Really enjoying your videos, man. I'm subbed, keep 'em coming and thanks!

[Lightning_Dolt]

I was actually thinking the opposite. I think it might be better to run more basics and a more conservative mana base and run Burning Earth again. People are going to get greedy.

[Elricity]

I've tried the mutavault light version of the burn deck a few months back both in paper to test the toil/trouble version and also online when I was trying to be cheap and get them while building a bankroll.

The mutavaults are way too important to cut.

Also, as with the wear//tear discussion, I'm not a fan of people just listing cards that interact with X card. Last time it was "here are a bunch of enchantments or artifacts" and now it's "here are cards that can be played with swamps".

Rakdos returns is a good card but those are in ramp decks and/or 26 land decks. I'm not real interested late game in the spell for 2-3. I would need to see a spell like blightning back for an on curve similar power.

You might be able to build a creatureless dega control deck that does what you want to do, given the cards that you listed. But then you have to compare it to esper.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I was actually thinking the opposite. I think it might be better to run more basics and a more conservative mana base and run Burning Earth again. People are going to get greedy.

Or that. Really, there's a lot of interesting things to discuss.

But saying "that is dumb" is not a discussion.

I know that a lot of people are looking at that card an screaming "Shut up and take my money!"

I hope it doesn't make hexproof a thing. The manabase was what held it back...

[Aodh]

Let's save the speculation for a later time (though I agree with all of your claims). And thanks for all your actual feedback.

[zenbitz]

RR for 3 (5 mana) midgame is pretty boss against anyone not dumping their hand (burn, control). That would suggest 10 black sources. I think it's obviously worse than mutavault. We cannot really maindeck it for sure. We do have a few SB slots - that are being used by Assemble and T/T that are high CMC. Obviously Assemble is much better against decks w/out counters or enchantment hate.

Toil // Trouble lis actually a pretty similar card but with HUGE edge of burning for 6 or 7 on turn 3 with no black mana. I am mildly curious as to how a straight Radkos burn deck would do. Obviously there are many substitutes for CttR but barring something nasty in JOU I can't really see losing WLH or Charm. Maybe one. We do get dreadbore. There's a thread for PyroBlack though!.

[Aodh]

I feel ya'. For now, black probably doesn't merit more discussion. I really want a 1-of Erebos in the list for a 5th anti-life-gain effect against the other decks, though.

[JohnnyfnB]

Regarding Rakdos Return, I agree it is an amazing card and can be back breaking, but it just isn't a good fit in this deck. Mana is tough as it is and altering the mana to fit 1 card is not advisable. Once you add RR, then you'll want to add Dreadbore, then this card and that card etc. Before you know it, your playing R/W/B midrange. If you want to make it, have at it, but it isn't a burn deck and you will hurt the efficiency and potency of the deck if you do change it.

IMHO, the Boros Burn and the Dega burn are as optimal as they can be (except for changing some cards here and there in your sideboard for your meta). When the new set comes out I'm sure there will be changes made, until then I suggest get as much testing in as you can and have fun.

[montu]

I feel ya'. For now, black probably doesn't merit more discussion. I really want a 1-of Erebos in the list for a 5th anti-life-gain effect against the other decks, though.

I'm a fan of brainstorming ideas, even if the ideas don't pan out, they can help you think of other creatives ways to accomplish the same thing.

Erobos is actually a source of card advantage I'd never considered.

[lorddax]

Allright guys here's some for you that came up from a couple hours of testing vs WUr aka American Control (win cons of Elspeth & Aetherling - secondary Jace)
Testing with 4YP main, 2Crypt, 1ToMalice, 1ToSilence, 3shock 3blood with 4 t//t side.

Took long time to decide mull decisions, wondering what your feedback is:

Temple of Silence ,Temple of Malice, Mutavault, Sacred Foundry, YP, Shock, Shock

---

I tossed it back as I felt that the hand wasn't strong enough after turn 3 and drawing a fifth land would be very painful. With a different card in the second shock place I probably would have kept with the scry, definitely keep with YP Shock MJ

Foundry Mountain Gate Vault CP LS

---

I kept this one as I felt having 3RR or 2WW available was okay, but again this is a four land hand which Im not sure I like but figured land 5 turns on mutavault with impunity[/
spoiler]

Mountain Mountain YP MJ Helix

---

I went to 4 as not having white was deemed too much of a downside.

Also was leaving chains in for g2 g3 due to FSP, but not sure if thats right call.

[Purp]

Which game was each hand? That is super important lol

[LaZerBurn]

Where you on the play or the draw?

[DXI-Edge]

The first and third hands you should've kept.

The first one, you have 2 scry lands that you play on turns 2/4 and bottom anything that you dont need, being able to go Pyro-Shock with another shock for later is awesome and mutavault is the best card in the matchup. On top of that you had 4 lands, 2 scry and 1 mutavault, meaning your hand was actually 3 lands and 5 spells. Snap-keep, if you draw badly you'll lose but if you draw normally its a fine hand.

The third one you had a MAGMA JET. You're on 5 and your greedy enough to mull to 4 because you didnt have white mana? Keep the 5 thats a great 5

[Purp]

I keep them all G1 in the blind. Well Id only keep the 2nd Hand G1 if I was on the play.

[Valdarith]

All three are keepers. The second hand is questionable against aggro decks but just fine against control (turn one Mutavault, turn two Mountain, activate and swing is a perfectly acceptable opening line).

[brianandstuff]

Hey all! I'm playing a burn variant this weekend at a Star City Open Trial, so not a terribly big deal, but I'd still like some input on my current 75

[deck]My Current List[/deck]

My biggest Concern is the Sideboard. Until recently, I was playing two Blind Obedience, only one [card]Wear // Tear[/card], only two Mizzium Mortars and
two Satyr Firedancer in the sideboard. I found myself never ever boarding in Blind Obedience, since Monsters decks have apparently disappeared from the face of my meta, and in accordance, the Firedancer got even worse out of the sideboard. So I cut those four in exchange for the Firstblades making a triumphant return to the board, and a second Wear // Tear (because apparently everyone is playing Bow of Nylea in their sideboard to combat the deck). The balance of Searing Blood and Shock was also 3 and 3 until recently, when I was beginning to notice fewer and fewer small creature aggro decks.

I have no idea what to expect from the event, so I'm mostly looking for a list that will do well against a varied meta. Does anything here need to be changed in order to improve my matchups against whatever is thrown at me?

[Purp]

That list looks fine. You could even go -3 Firstblade, +1 T//T, +1 Mortars, +1 Chandra. If you think heavy control, your list seems fine.

[JohnnyfnB]

I agree that the list looks fine, with one personal exception. I like BO and have found that it's one of those cards that I'd rather have and not need, then need and not have. RDW and burn are relatively cheap to build, so you might want to consider it.

[brianandstuff]

I'm just a bit nervous about GW having a big showing after that second place finish last weekend, and I've been finding that my current list is still a bit slow to control, since I have to leave in some number of Chains to deal with their Angel. My current plan against them is to take out all of the Shocks and Bloods to bring in the Firstblades and T // T. After the first Trouble resolves, I've found, UW players typically scramble to counter whatever you throw at them, just to decrease their hand size, and then the card just turns into a worse Lava Axe, so going up to 4 is iffy.

Is there a general consensus on the Firstblades? I keep seeing them disappear and then reappear in sideboards throughout this thread and I just don't know if they have a big enough impact to warrant 3 slots anymore, and the extra Chandra seems pretty sweet with the Pyromancer plan.

[Purp]

There is no general consensus on anything. At this point, the list is so tuned it comes down to player preference.

Afraid of gw? Run 4 mortars.
Afraid of BO? Run 4 Toil.
No one at your store running BO? Firstblade is good.

I would not leave in 3 chains, 1 chain 1 mortars should be fine vs any esper build for g2.

With that SB, you have 8-9 control cards. -2-3 Chain, -2 SB, -4 Shock. It's up to you.

[Elricity]

Brian,

-1 gate, +1 temple of silence. I ran the math on it a while back but it's like a 1.5% difference you miss [mana]RR[/mana] on turn 3 and you pick up a scry. If you really want the need to RR on turn 2 for searing blood, then keep it.

[brianandstuff]

Does the second Malice make up for this? Or is 8 scry effects (12 I guess if you include Jet) worth having so many etb tapped lands? (This is also the exact advice I've been looking for on the deck for weeks now. Thanks everybody!)

[cloudscraper]

Very nice deck tech with Zem for people starting to pick up the deck. Listening to a few key points in a video record should probably help out... and we might avoid stupid questions.

We should all run the deck tech as our signature

[Elricity]

Does the second Malice make up for this? Or is 8 scry effects (12 I guess if you include Jet) worth having so many etb tapped lands? (This is also the exact advice I've been looking for on the deck for weeks now. Thanks everybody!)

Well, your tap lands haven't changed in your build, you're just giving up 1 R to go to 18 R / 11 W.

The real decision is between 6 scry and 8. 7 is just hedging for no benefit.

[magicdownunder]

Here is the list I was running last week (I have 5 finishes recorded with it before I made some more adjustments):

[deck=MDU's Barely Boros Burn]Lands 23
7 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
1 Boros Guildgate
2 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Malice

Creatures 8
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments 3
3 Chained to the Rocks

Burns 26
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock

Sideboard 15
4 Toil // Trouble
3 Peak Eruptions
3 Satyr firedancer
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Chained to the Rocks[/deck]
SE Report 6985077
G1 Bx Devotion vs Young Dancers (MDU) SE 6985077
[url=https://www&#
46;youtube.com/watch?v=R3fiky4smPQ&list=PLBO2Co_8Gb6x7B1bKjJBF1rzhD2_474DG]G2 Ux Devotion vs Young Dancers (MDU) SE 6985077[/url]
G3 Split

SE Report 6988149
G1 Esper Control vs Young Dancers (MDU) SE 6988149
G2 Ux Devotion vs Young Dancers (MDU) SE 6988149
G3 Split

I do have a sideboard plan with explanations written out - which I'll post either sometime after the sets are complete or if I get 9 new subs or 20 new comments from different people (yeah yeah, I'm fishing for higher view count - whatever works).

[DerWille]

I took this deck to Wednesday Night Magic.

[deck]
Creatures (8)
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (29)
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Shock
4 Boros charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Searing Blood
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Land (23)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
1 Boros Guildgate
9 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Sideboard (15)
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Blind Obedience
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

This is basically Zman's deck with a different sideboard. The sideboard didn't work as well as I would have liked.

Round 1 vs Junk Dredge
Game 1 he goes off and kicks my ass. Hi Elspeth, I don't want to see you on turn 5. Oh? You brought friends? You shouldn't have! That didn't end well. Games 2 and 3 he mulls down because of too little or too much land.
His deck wasn't able to combo off and shut me down. This deck is scary when it goes off but it feels like it's stupid weak to Rest in Peace. It feels like the deck almost completely loses to that one card.

Win, 2-1

Round 2 vs Esper Something
I know this guy, it's a combination of the two Esper Control decks, but not as good as either. It dies pretty easily to burn.

Win 2-0

Round 3 vs Mono Red Aggro
Just a basic red aggro with devotion for Fanatic of Mogis. The matches came down to who drew hotter than the other and well, he did. I think match up would be a lot easier with 4 Searing Blood in the 75 as everything in the deck is basically X/2.

Loss 1-2

Round 4 vs Azorious Control
This deck was packed full of counter spells. Dissolve, Syncopate, and Dispel. So much counter. In addition, Jace, Architect of Thought just shuts down Young Pyromancer. We go to 3 rounds and I barely eek them out each time. I get a little lucky game 2 and top deck the burn I need to finish it. Game 3 I force
out all of his counter spells so he taps out, then skullcrack with lethal onboard to negate Archangel of Thune.

Win 2-1
---

So, my sideboard is a complete mess. I think Blind Obedience is good tech against decks using whip of erebos to reanimate things, but it felt like 2 copies was too few. I really want to get that thing online ASAP. Also, like I mentioned above, Young Pryomancer is so weak to Jace. I should probably board him out in games 2 and 3. 4 Toil // Trouble in his place be better? Maybe something like...

[deck]
Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
3 Blind Obedience
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Toil // Trouble
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

I want to make the control match up a bit stronger while still keeping in Young Pyromancers in the main. Still seems like a messy sideboard though.

[GoblinWarchief]

Went to FNM last week , undefeated until top4 , then lost 2-1 against jund midrange. Rakdo's Return ruined my day.

What do we do against that card ? I just figured out i had to cast all my spells as soon as possible trying to race. It almost worked since i won game 2 then lost game 3 topdecking too much lands with him at 5 life .

[montu]

2-0 so far in the DE.

Ugh, double Staff is annoying (which my second opp had on G2 AND G3!). The last game went 15 turns . . . he had 2 Staffs on board, AND 2x Gary. My singleton Hammer was the only thing that saved me. I think I ended up hitting him for 40+ damage before I got him to zero.

Edit: Ended up going 3-1. CRUSHED Esper Control then lost to Bx Devo in 3 games.

[Nishoba27]

Guys, Obzedat Control is fairly prevalent in my meta. My current sideboard inclusions for the matchup are Assemble x2 and Chandra x2 and Mizzium Mortars x2-3. What other sideboard cards would you suggest to assist in this matchup? I find it a tough matchup as they one-for-one you then drop Ozbedat. Thanks

[BrainsickHater]

@Brianandstuff

Are you going to the Open Trial in Liverpool near Syracuse, NY?

[gozmit97]

1-0 in my first constructed 8-man on MTGO. Defeated Mono Red pretty easily. Playing Zes list (will make tweaks along the way, and have already got some planned) with a manabase, i forgot to change, luckily that's only means a couple of blood crypts.

[gozmit97]

MONO RED AGAIN?
YES!

[gozmit97]

I hate boros reckoner... 1-1

[magicdownunder]

MONO RED AGAIN?
YES!

That quite interesting it must be a timezome meta thing, Lazerburn has been telling me many burn players have been switching into RDW or AiR but I've yet to experience anything beside Esper, Ux, Dredge, Mirrors and Bx Devotion.

[Purp]

Guys, Obzedat Control is fairly prevalent in my meta. My current sideboard inclusions for the matchup are Assemble x2 and Chandra x2 and Mizzium Mortars x2-3. What other sideboard cards would you suggest to assist in this matchup? I find it a tough matchup as they one-for-one you then drop Ozbedat. Thanks

Blind Obediance