Gone Postal Mafia - Game Over - Scum Win

[hamfactorial]

Raspy:

I cannot prove that I'm town, but I'll make more effort to analyze interactions once the prods come back and result in words.

Regarding rez, I've decided that he's fallen victim to tunneling if he's town. Reading his PBPA suggests that he strongly correlates spam with scum, and his definition of spam is any post that doesn't help town. The first half of my posting history is pointless nonsense during RVS, followed by passive aggressive eye rolling and hand waiving at him for pushing my wagon.

If he's scum, he's teeing up a good day 1 mislynch, because I'm newb and haven't presented anyone else as a more attractive target. When I flip town, he can simply say "I'm not scum, why would scum push ham so hard? They already know what the flip will be, no scum would take that risk" and challenge any other speculation as WIFOM.

Most of this game has been rez and I talking past each other, so
there's plenty of room for scum to slip through cracks. The original trio I mentioned, pie + suga + Jack, still has barely made a peep.

The only thing I can do is say "hey, lynch the lurkers". I correlate scum with lurking in the same way that rez correlates it with spam.

[InflatablePie]

@pie: not quoting things makes it kind of difficult to respond.

no it doesn't. I just hate the quote feature on this forum, mafiascum.net has spoiled me.

and there was only one thing I didn't quote. Actually, two.

Here:

InflatablePie says he doesn't see me as scum, but doesn't like Suga's vote very much[/url:
1piemvtm]. Is Pie scum? Is Suga his buddy? Public distancing in the early game is a useful scum tactic.

Pie + Suga + Jack scum team? gg game broken I'm town MVP

Who are you asking these questions tow ... 14 3:22 pm"]Jack REALLY needs to post or I vote him tonight.

Slip? (this is the kind of stuff I was talking about when I put him on notice)[/quote]

re: ham's comment on the me + Suga scumteam, when rezzy asks what the purpose of this is, he's implying ham's post is useless/not scumhunting, which it isn't. Ham noticed something odd about my post and pointed it out, and rezzy is subtly trying to paint this as scummy.

@rezzy: what's the "slip" of Wraith's, exactly? I don't get it

-----

[quote=&
quot;Captain Murphy » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:42 am"]Obviously I think he is scum if I am voting for him, his wagon will be better information tomorrow now the way things have panned out[/quote]

You're still avoiding my questions.

Do you think we should still hunt for scum on ham's wagon (you said earlier there was one scum on it regardless of ham's alignment) even though you're now voting him? And who is the current most likely scum that's voted ham today?

-----

ham has shown town lines of thinking in his "self-aware" types of questions. everyone having doubts should read them and think of the information the answers provide and you should be able to see that he's not scum.

rezzy's case is also coming from a town POV I believe. I think he's not on the right track
and using too many absolutes w/r/t scumtells, but he's town. He makes his own self-aware point (glass houses and stones, rezzy!) of "what is my scum motivation here?".

I firmly believe this is town-on-town and pressure is best used elsewhere.

Town:
- CP
- me
- Wraith
- ham
- rezzy
- Jack, I think

People that need pressure:
- CaptainMurphy, for ignoring me (neener neener)
- DroppinSuga for this post (did CP's "Scum want to leave options open for later -and therefore not commit to anything." stick out to anyone? it's right below this post.)
- Red for this post that gives practically nothing but a Suga townread (that's "gut" so there's no use in asking for explanations)

LordM/imopen/rcw are the only other players...
still keeping an eye on imopen, LordM is lurking so he could do that less too, and rcw has blended in fairly well so I don't have a read on him.

@ham:
The original trio I mentioned, pie + suga + Jack, still has barely made a peep.

Have you read my posts? Don't make me punch you through the internet.

[hamfactorial]

Don't punch me, I'm fragile

I'll go back and read what you've posted, I suspect I glossed over it because I'm too self-aware (zomg scum tell).

[Jack]

Wraith: thanks for questioning my questions, rather than answering them. You made me think on them more than I would have otherwise and come up with answers.

Could we talk about the game dynamics a bit? It's pretty normal for a 12-person game of mafia (9 town, 3 scum, probably a few power roles), except there's the mail mechanic in place. However, I can't really see how that's exceptionally useful Why? You can't think of any reasons for a use?.. As of now, I can't think of anything that I'd need to say that I wouldn't
say in this thread We have confirmed town (Cursed Pride) to work with. It is good that you see the best course of action in saying your piece here, but this post is placing you as the one guy no one should mail to..

Agree on the point about Cursed_Pride. Why do you see me as a bad choice for a mail recipient?

Do you ask a question? If you do, you either don't get an answer until the next Night via PM (at which point the person may be out of this game), or you get an answer in this thread the next day, which begs the question: why did you bother asking through the mail system Use your imagination dude, Stardust would not have made such an interesting game if it the mail did not matter.?

Yup. Mail is good, if only because it provides a way for townies to voice their thoughts during the night stages. Your views after one Day ends and you have some time
to reflect on it are different from what they might be when the next Day starts and you find out who has been killed. I guess it's a good idea to talk about possible scenarios and such.

Do you confide in someone about your role (This question is a trap. Again, you seem to ostracizing yourself here.? Do you blatantly lie to someone and see how they react? Do you plan on doing so? This seals the deal and I wonder if you are giving a leading question here.

[/quote]
I ended there with a few "out-there" ideas, half-joking when I wrote them. I had originally mentioned that C_P might be a good choice for a confidant, but took it out because I couldn't find a good way to say it and because I didn't want to put too much pressure on him and lead the scum to a decision that they should kill him.

No, I wouldn't lie to someone in the mail. But somebody might!
Just something to keep in mind.

Did you read your post before posting it? Please answer or explain the questioned and commented sentences.

1. Do you plan on using the mail with this said? Yes.
2. Do you not want to participate in the mail system? No
3. How would using or not using the mail system help town in your opinion? I already said this, but I think it's just nice to be able to talk during the night stages. Whatever mail you receive can be either kept to yourself or shared with everyone in this thread. Town will probably make some important decision/come to a strong conclusion about someone because of what they said/what was said about them in the mail.

More on the mail system:
-Motivation behind sending mail signed vs. unsigned
-When to/when not to post what mail you received
- I think you should
pretty much always post it, unless the person that sent it to you told you not to and you can see why
-Can people lie about what was sent to them/exclude parts of it?

[rezombad]

wut

[Captain Murphy]

You're still avoiding my questions.

Do you think we should still hunt for scum on ham's wagon (you said earlier there was one scum on it regardless of ham's alignment) even though you're now voting him? And who is the current most likely scum that's voted ham today?

I don't know who is the likely scum on his previous wagon, his wagon will be better information tomorrow now that ham gave up even fighting a case.

I think ham should be lynched.

[Captain Murphy]

It was a fast wagon and little was said in between votes and posts. I think tomorrow its a better tool than today, especially if he flips scum.

[Captain Murphy]

I mean, I'm leaving everyone decide what they want to do with mail. I'm sure not telling until an important part of the game where a message might become important but before that I'm keeping shut.

Letting people play it out themselves reveals a lot more.

Lets not forget that most postal mafia games include mail tampering or mail blocks so that is also something to consider.

[Captain Murphy]

But that post was weak Jack, is there a reason for the lack of content thus far or do you just want to give up now and claim scum?

[Captain Murphy]

I mean yeah its only 200+ pages in but there is a lot more to comment on instead of "lol mail talk"

[Jack]

I didn't have time for this game the past two days other than just checking the thread on my phone. And Wraith really wanted me to respond to his post, so I did.

[Captain Murphy]

When will you have time then?

[Jack]

Weekends, some weekdays. Not really sure.

[Captain Murphy]

Well I look forward to some content then from you, I don't want the day to end until all the lurkers post some more

[DroppinSuga]

Ham's defense is terrible. I'm pretty sure I should put my vote back on him...

vote ham

I'd like to hear more from LMD though.

[Captain Murphy]

I'd like to hear more from you droppin

[RedNihilist]

I'll be honest: while ham is 100% the most valuable lynch on this day, I'd rather lynch scum rather than hang him for info.

I guess I'll vote Jack for his selective lurking then.
It's not like he's going to be lynched before being able to return active again.

[Stardust]

Official Votecount!

hamfactorial (3): rezombad, Captain Murphy, DroppinSuga
DroppinSuga (2): Cursed_Pride, InflatablePie
rezombad (3): imopen2, hamfactorial, Wraith223
Jack (1): RedNihilist

Not voting: Jack, rcwraspy, Lord_Mcdonalds

With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

[imopen2]

I agree, red. The question isn't "which lynch gives us the most information" it is "who is scum" and I'm certainly not convinced that ham is scum

[DroppinSuga]

I'd like to hear more from you droppin

what would you like to know?

[Cursed_Pride]

InflatablePie and hamfactorial go up a bit, slightly. -DroppingSuga needs to burn for that awfully opportunistic hamfactorial vote.

I haven't read through all of this game thoroughly since I last posted, but I should be able to make a more in depth post tomorrow.

[Wraith223]

STARDUST/ MOD will be busy this weekend cooking and driving during easter. Will have limited internet access.

Suga needs to give a read on Rez versus ham vote. Which side of the fence are you?

Red^^^^ same goes for you please.

Jack^^^^ same goes for you please.

You guys are the outliers right now.

[InflatablePie]

You're still avoiding my questions.

Do you think we should still hunt for scum on ham's wagon (you said earlier there was one scum on it regardless of ham's alignment) even though you're now voting him? And who is the current most likely scum that's voted ham today?

I don't know who is the likely scum on his previous wagon, his wagon will be better information tomorrow now that ham gave up even fighting a case.

I'd bet at least 1 scum was on hams wagon, regardless of his alignment though. Thats what should be looked at later

So why do you want to wait until tomorrow to look at his wagon, assuming he's lynched, when you said it doesn't matter what he flips, there was at least one scum on the wagon and why are you going out of your way to avoid answering me?

It was a fast wagon and little was said in between votes and posts. I think tomorrow its a better tool than today, especially if he flips scum.

But you said that there's at least one scum on his wagon regardless of his alignment and have now been refusing to answer me.

Do you
not have any reads whatsoever on anyone who's voted ham today? Or do you know he's town and don't want to commit to another scumread in case they get lynched instead?

[InflatablePie]

unvote
vote Captain Murphy

Town motivation is to find scum. Saying there's one scum on a wagon, even if the wagonee is scum themselves, is fine. But a townie would at least try to guess at who the scum are on the wagon (even if they kept it to themselves), by looking at how and when people voted, because you can at least gleam reads from that regardless of the wagonee's alignment. However, a townie doesn't just go "oh nevermind, we should wait until tomorrow to find scum there" and go out of their way to not give their reads on those wagoning the said wagonee.

[InflatablePie]

The "I bet 1+ scum were voting ham, look at that later" combined with not following up on that, combined with refusing to give reads, just reeks of scum saying they should hunt on the wagon tomorrow (that's the way scum prefer to line up lynches as opposed to outright saying "lynch x after y"), and by being on the wagon it comes off as "look at me I'm on the wagon too but we should still lynch on the wagon I'M SO TOWN GUYS*". It's just not genuine. The wanting lurkers to post thing just gives me badvibes as well the way it was phrased.

*Source - I did that as scum in a game recently.

[imopen2]

I have to reread but I definitely agree with you, Pie. I'm prob going to vote CM when I do that reread (prob tomorrow night)

[hamfactorial]

I've been thinking about rez and his dogged pursuit of me during the last few pages. I mentioned how going after me this hard as scum would be risky, and I think that town tunneling me is more likely than scum working this hard on a day 1 mislynch.

Hence, Unvote.

I'm interested in what Pie said about CM, since I've only been vaguely aware of him after the first page where I joked that he was a brony.

I'm most suspicious of the lurkers, as I mentioned that I associate lurking with scum (I lurked hard in my 2 scum games). Until they post, I can't pick anything apart, though.

I will read through CM's contributions here and offer my thoughts. I'm at work so the follow-up will be this evening or tomorrow morning.

[Captain Murphy]

I think the votes on his original wagon didn't really have enough content to judge if they were scum or town motivated, I answered that. Tomorrow shows us more because of night kill and the flip. (IE: I think certain people would have voted from a scum mindset depending on it he is scum/town and vice verca)

I answered your question, I don't know how you can say I didn't lol

[InflatablePie]

So what is the point of saying "votes on ham should be looked at later" (paraphrasing) whilst he's being wagoned if you think it's not useful to [i:294sdm3z]actually[/i:294sdm3z] discuss until he flips? That makes your 'content' useless.

Furthermore, when you say this at the point where ham has five votes on him:
[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=215576#p215576:294sdm3z]Captain Murphy » Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:20 pm[/url:294sdm3z]":294sdm3z]I'd bet at least 1 scum was on hams wagon, regardless of his alignment though. Thats what should be looked at later[/quote:294sdm3z]

You're saying you can discern this information without his flip. Because you're town and don't know his alignment anyway. So let's hear it.

Here, I'll help, the ham wagon before everyone unvoted - rcw, rez, Suga, C_P, Lord_M

who's scum

[rcwraspy]

just wanted to pop in and let people know I've had a busy couple days and will be busy again Saturday. Will likely be able to post more Sunday.

Has the Ham wagon fallen out of favor for most folks? I can see it being town on town.

[Captain Murphy]

I don't know man, like I said it needs to be looked at later

[Captain Murphy]

When I said regardless of alignment I mean that scum could be voting for a scum bud or scum voting for a townie and depending on what he flips, different people are more suspicious than others

[Captain Murphy]

Like I already mentioned a scum buddy mindset of wraith at a ham scum flip, the others I like to hold close to my chest

[Captain Murphy]

And yeah lol my content is useless, sure man

[Jack]

Jack^^^^ same goes for you please.

Rez doesn't look too scummy to me, for the reasons ham outlined when he unvoted. The big reason for ham receiving most of the votes on him seems to be his self-awareness in his posts, but I give him a bit of slack for that, since I did the same in my previous games. It's still scummy, though, and while I'm not looking at going after Ham, I would vote for him if the choice was between a Ham lynch and a no lynch.

[Jack]

Pie is leaning town.
Wraith looks to be town.
Pie's case on Murphy seems pretty solid.
I wouldn't be surprised if red wasn't town.

[rezombad]

I would be surprised if red was town.

emphasis added to show the fixed double negative.

So Jack, Why is red scummy to you?

[imopen2]

Pie is leaning town.
Wraith looks to be town.
Pie's case on Murphy seems pretty solid.
I wouldn't be surprised if red wasn't town.

Can you run down your opinion on CM for me? Haven't been able to reread today. Sowwy guys

[Jack]

I would be surprised if red was town.

emphasis added to show the fixed double negative.

So Jack, Why is red scummy to you?

I have a null-scum read on him because I haven't found a strong town mindset from him as of yet. He hasn't posted much, and that can be seen as scummy as well.

[rezombad]

Do you see it as scummy as hell?