[Primer] Boros Burn

[Mcdonalds]

Have we also considered the guy was joking?

Dude is on high tide for legacy.....

[montu]

I am boggled how you guys still get offended because someone plays the deck and doesn't find a requisite amount of skill to make yourselves feel better. I kinda got why people were annoyed at PV for saying it, because he's played like ten games with the deck, but if you play an 11 round tourney + T8 and make that statement I'm not really sure how you can complain.

Plus in the same breath, Zem gets asked the same stupid fucking questions every other page. That amuses me way more.

If you do well, it really shouldn't matter. I feel like we've gone past the point of 'oh we want to prove them wrong by showing the deck is good' to 'oh I want everyone to change
their worldview of how red decks are seen' in which case GOOD FUCKING LUCK.

Well stated.

I only care about one thing . . . getting better at MTG. The deck is viable and fun to play, and absolutely requires you to become a better player. (Or else bleed tickets. Ask me how I know .)

Trust me, the sooner you stop caring about what other people think, the happier you'll be. About 25 years ago, a very wise person told me, "I spent the first half of my life worrying about what other people thought of me. Then I realized they weren't even paying attention since people really only think about themselves." So true.

Anywho, I've personally copied onto a note sheet every relevant thing 2 particular players have said in this thread, by going through every post starting from #1. I don't have an excess of time to devote to MTG, but I try to make every
minute count.

[TubeHunter]

Just don't play bad decks like burn

[zenbitz]

What's funny is that the deck can both be BAD and REQUIRE NO THINKING. Uh, isn't winning with a bad deck harder and requires more skillz?

[TubeHunter]

Just because a beautiful model presents you a pile of poo does not make the poo any greater

[BrainsickHater]

Played a YP Burn list at Standard today. I had a sideboarding dilemma.

In the MB/BW matchup, do we board out Magma Jet if we have cards to replace it?

I was running 4 Jet, 3 Shock, and 3 Searing Blood, all of which I think we can agree are not at their strongest in the MB matchup. Searing Blood and Shock I'm happy finding replacements for, but Magma Jet feels like glue for this deck. Is it worth boarding in 3x Toil // Trouble and losing 3 Magma Jets?

[zemanjaski]

Provide more information.

[tzir]

I kinda got why people were annoyed at PV for saying it, because he's played like ten games with the deck

Even then, PV was largely providing a summary of the assessments of the other pros he asked, so it didn't make too much sense to me to be annoyed with him either.

I feel like we've gone past the point of 'oh we want to prove them wrong by showing the deck is good' to 'oh I want everyone to change their worldview of how red decks are seen' in which case GOOD FUCKING LUCK.

nThere is a weird kind of evangelism going on, and I haven't been immune, either (I have caught myself saying "well, really, it's more like a red tempo deck" more times than I care to count). We should be letting the deck, and our play, speak for itself.

[DXI-Edge]

Fucking hate when you type a long response and it gets absorbed because you arent logged in... -_-

TL:DR: STOP BEING SO FUCKING BUTT HURT ABOUT PEOPLE SAYING ITS A BAD DECK.

If we continue to win, whatever. The more people think its bad, the less they board and the easier it is to continue to win.

anyway. played this list today:

[deck]
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Shock
2 Searing Blood
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix

3 Mutavault
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Sacred Foundry
8 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Wear // Tear
2 Assemble the Legion
4 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Mutavault
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 ????
[/deck]

Last 3 slots will be for vs. Monsters/Aggro matchups

Tested 10 games vs Mono-Black, 5-0 preboard 4-1 post board.
Tested 10 games vs. Esper, 4-1 preboard, 3-2 post board (all wins on the play, I misplayed 2 to lose. Trying new things in the matchup to see, I know I'm favourable)

Board plans vs. Esper:
-4 Shock, -2 Searing Blood, -3 Chained to the Rocks
+4 Firedrinker Satyr, +2 Mizzium Mortars, +1 Chandra, +1 Wear // Tear, +1 Mutavault

vs Mono-Black
-4 Shock, -2 Searing Blood, -2 Magma Jet
+2 Mizzium Mortars, +1 Chained to the Rocks, +1 Mutavault, +1 Wear // Tear, +2 Assemble the Legion, +1 Chandra Pyromaster

[magicdownunder]

I top 8'd a 32 man SCG IQ with a Blind Zurm type decklist (will track it down online if possible otherwise I will have to enter it manually).

All in all a good showing and I must say I like the extra flexibility that Young Pyromancer gives me and a BO main was great when ever I drew it, the Chandra main was unexciting all day, mostly only keeping me from taking a hit for a turn or 2, so I will prob move them to the sb. I do feel that Whip of Erebos is not as bad as it felt w/ straight RW burn but the Bow of Nylea felt very difficult to beat with no enchantment removal.

Edit - I just did not want to have to think on Saturday.

I'm glad the Blind Zurm
list is working for you, in regards with Chandra perhaps waiting until its a less compromising situation before you cast her would be better.

Vs BoN I'll highly recommend either tossing in W//T (or if your using my old list) just 1x Assemble and overwhelmed the life-gain.

[DXI-Edge]

WEAR AND TEAR IS SO GOOD IN THE MIRROR

Singlehandidly won a both my sideboard games on MODO because of this card

Game 2, Wear//Tear your Chained to the Rocks, get back my Pyromancer
Game 3, Play young pyromancer turn 3 and wear and tear your blind obedience.

JESUS

[magicdownunder]

That one time during FNM I had a fire dancer vs Burn and I used Searing Blood on Chandra's Phoenix, trigger the dancer and killed an opposing Young Pyromancer therefore its sooo good.....

[DXI-Edge]

Won an 8-man with Burn. Beat MBC 2-1, the mirror 2-1, the Reid Duke Junk list 2-0

[DXI-Edge]

MDU I was using a single case....why so rude?

You should know that I of all people is one of the least results oriented people on this forum

[TBuzzsaw]

[deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks
1 Blind Obedience

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
8 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph


Sideboard
3 Burning Earth
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Toil//Trouble
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Blind Obedience
1 Wear//Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

How are you actually SB'ing? Could you post your "ins" and "outs" for each MU? I'll try and help once you've done that.

MBC
-
3 Searing Blood -3 Shock
+1 Chain +1 W/T +2 Mortars +2 Toil/Trouble

Black players in my meta have not picked up on Staff yet so I don't have the need for Assemble yet especially when I'm 5-0 against them. I make sure to play my Troubles before any of my creatures so their removals stay in their hands.


R/x Aggro
-4 Skullcrack -3 Boros Charm
+2 Mortars +1 Chain +1 Anger +2 Spark Trooper, +1 Blind Obedience

Straight forward. Mono Black is even worse of a matchup against us and in that case the Charms stay.


Jund/GR Monsters
-3 Shock -3 Searing Blood
+2 Mortars +1 Chain +1 BO +2 Spark Trooper

In my meta both gets seen, and GR runs Nylea's Disciple in the side. If I'm on the play I may keep the Searing Bloods to burn Elves.


Esper/American Control
-3 Searing Blood -3 Chain -4 Helix -1 Shock
+3 Burning Earth +2 Glare +1 W/T +1 BO +1 Chandra +3 T/T

WLH is out since my curve is higher with BE and Chandra
in. I like to have both my BO in because not only does it stop Obzedat from attacking, but when they counter our burn spells we can still extort.


Mirror
-2 Chain
+1 BO +1 W/T

This one's tougher and not sure if it's the right call.

[magicdownunder]

I've never tested Burning Earth however LP says its good so that pretty much good for me, Anger of the Gods indicates your concerned about small aggro decks like RDW and Gx Devotion while 2x Glare of Heresy and 1x Wear // Tear shows a deep rooted fear of enchantments.

Based on your SB would it be fair to state that your meta has many T2 decks (at least enough to warrant SB for) while the control players are more difficult then the Bx Devotion players which is why your on BE over assembles? I personally wouldn't run your SB but if you have the right reasons (like the meta I described, then its fine).

MBC

---

-3 Searing Blood -3 Shock
+1 Chain +1 W/T +2 Mortars +2 Toil/Trouble

Black players in my meta have not picked up on Staff yet so I don't have the need for Assemble yet especially when I'm 5-0 against them. I make sure to play my Troubles
before any of my creatures so their removals stay in their hands.

Don't run W//T vs Bx Devotion (if its the whip your worried about just add another BO), I recommend an running Chandra, Pyromaster in its place because post board they are likely to cut HDF making her very difficult for them to kill.

R/x Aggro

---

-4 Skullcrack -3 Boros Charm
+2 Mortars +1 Chain +1 Anger +2 Spark Trooper, +1 Blind Obedience

Straight forward. Mono Black is even worse of a matchup against us and in that case the Charms stay.

Solid

Jund/GR Monsters

---

-3 Shock -3 Searing Blood
+2 Mortars +1 Chain +1 BO +2 Spark Trooper

In my meta both gets seen, and GR runs Nylea's Disciple in the side. If I'm on the play I may keep the Searing Bloods to burn Elves.

I'll run the W//T here to deal with BoW and the enchantment
creature - perhaps over 1x Boros Charm.. please note I usually board Skull because Nylea isn't seeing play

Esper/American Control

---

-3 Searing Blood -3 Chain -4 Helix -1 Shock
+3 Burning Earth +2 Glare +1 W/T +1 BO +1 Chandra +3 T/T

WLH is out since my curve is higher with BE and Chandra in. I like to have both my BO in because not only does it stop Obzedat from attacking, but when they counter our burn spells we can still extort.

Make sense, please note the control decks I play don't run Obzedat.

I don't like so many cards which do nothing.... however your plan seems to be cast BE and hope it wins, so I guess its ok?

Mirror

---

-2 Chain
+1 BO +1 W/T

So your taking the creature route, it does work but please keep in mind if your opp. is running chains, BO and blood your going too be in trouble - if that is the case I'll
bring in T//T and try and sub out creatures.

[LP, of the Fires]

Played like, 8 games of Mono-black agro vs. Burn.

Yeah, won zero games playing the black deck. Warleaders helix too strong.

[TBuzzsaw]

Yeah I figured I wanted the T/T against the mirror and take out the YP$.

Regarding the control match up, the best players in the store are control players, who have gotten wise against burn starting to get popular have started to side BO, FSP, and Obzedats. I like Glare since it can hit BO and FSP (nice to have an answer without keeping Chain), and hit D-Sphere if it's played on BE. I also saw Obzedat every time I played against Esper.

As for my meta, it's currently 30% control, 30% aggro/burn, 25% green(Jund/Junk/GR), 10% MBC (somehow play against those the most), and 5% misc other stuff.

[MattT]

Have to agree with Silvestri here. Some of you are taking this a bit too seriously. Stop caring what others think and just beat face. Results speak for themselves.

This/site Clan may be good at Red deck theory and craft, but it has always been a haven of bully victims. Better focus on the game imo.

[BrainsickHater]

Provide more information.

[deck]
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

3 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Skullcrack
3 Shock
3 Searing Blood

Sideboard
3 Peak Eruption
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Toil // Trouble
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Mutavault
1 Wear // Tear
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

Sideboarding Plan Against MB has been like this:

I know I want to take out -3 Shock, -3 Searing Blood.
I know I want to bring in +2 Assemble, +1 Mutavault, +1 Chained, +1 Chandra, Pyromaster.
I'm not sure if I want to bring in Wear // Tear or 1x Toil // Trouble for the last slot.
I'm also unsure if I want to be bringing in more
than one Toil // Trouble and cutting some number of Magma Jet.

I tried boarding out many jets in some games, and there were times when I didn't have anything to burn away a Pack Rat after getting thoughtseized/duressed.
In other games, Jet is just going upstairs for two, and while that's not a great rate of return, you can do it at instant speed and the scry is very useful. All in all Jet just performs more consistently, but just because jet is consistent, idk if that means it's worth playing a card that will usually be weaker.

On Wear // Tear:
I'm not sure if I want to board this in against MB. Most people seem to be boarding out Underworld Connections, and not everyone is on the Staff of Death Magus plan. Heck, many people don't even run Whip. I think that against MB, in post-boarded games, it's kind of a coin-flip as far as do they have enough or targets for Wear // Tear. Question is, are the targets for W/T good enough that we board it in even on the chance our opponent has those
targets?

[Midnight_v]

git gud

Laugh at assholery when it fails

Win more and

Do all 3.... but behavior is another topic.

Moving on, I watched 2 Unflinching courage decks in that open, are you finding wear and tear enough?

[magicdownunder]

Sometimes GW will just kill you.... Wurm or Witchstalker (with or without Voice of Resurgence) into Unflinching Courage and your dead.

It was slightly easier back in the Pyrowhite days when we had threatens and Boros Reckoner, nowadays we just have too play really cautiously and hope we hit our W//T on time (if we're running them).

That said GW loses against the three best decks in the format Bx Devotion, Ux Devotion and Control so if your running a high level event event you shouldn't concern yourself too much.

[BrainsickHater]

Speaking of running a high event, I have a bunch of questions about that. I'm planning to go to a Super IQ, but I don't play at many events besides LGS standard/modern stuff.

What should I expect to see at a high event? I know I should expect to see Bx and UWx, but idk if Burn should be on my radar/it's worth devoting sideboard slots to.

Is Monsters still a thing? I haven't seen it around that much lately.

Is the Toil // Trouble list considered better against a high event meta than the YP list?

[Purp]

Watch Zem do a deck tech from his victory this past weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqRCkPFbl_U

[Valdarith]

Monsters is still a thing but it hasn't been placing consistently lately. You should still plan to play against it.

Any of the established decks are what you should expect to face and have a solid plan for. My list:

RW Burn
UWx control
Esper midrange
Black devotion variants
BW midrange
GRx Monsters
Ux devotion
Mono black agro
GB Dredge
Naya hexproof

In an IQ-level event I would run the Young Pyromancer list. Those types of events tend to invite more brews and YP$ is favored in an open meta like that. In an environment like an SCG Open or GP I'd consider Toil / Trouble.

[Valdarith]

Watch Zem do a deck tech from his victory this past weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqRCkPFbl_U

Nice Mountains, Zem.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Great deck tech. Curious what moved you back to VFB? Did control stop running B.O.?

[zemanjaski]

No, they all have BO but I thought I would run Firstblades anyway.

[Lightning_Dolt]

How did that work out?

[Purp]

I think a t2 BO from a control is hard to beat no matter you are siding in. VFB is a huge card in that matchup if they dont have it. I like playing that on t3 over phoenix.

Was it good vs all the MBC decks you faced?

[rage_jl]

Provide more information.

Sideboarding Plan Against MB has been like this:

I know I want to take out -3 Shock, -3 Searing Blood.
I know I want to bring in +2 Assemble, +1 Mutavault, +1 Chained, +1 Chandra, Pyromaster.
I'm not sure if I want to bring in Wear // Tear or 1x Toil // Trouble for the last slot.
I'm also unsure if I want to be bringing in more than one Toil // Trouble and cutting some number of Magma Jet.

I personally like Toil // Trouble on the play against MB or Bw. May keep some in on the draw against Bw depends how it feels. The extra
damage on turn 3 on the play is great as they have usually played very nothing up to that point. If they grab it over something else with discard spells that is fine too. But do not play/mulligan around if they have the discard. They may have it, they may not. That is irrelevant in making decisions that matter. I've sided Searing Blood back in for game 3 after I find out they kept lifebane zombie in and have four pack rats. I do not side Wear // Tear in unless I see Whip in game 2 and I usually do not bother then. It is to often a dead card that you have to take something more useful out for. If B/Bw is that big with the players you expect to be at the top of the bracket I would consider a third Assemble in the side, it's usually game if you can drop it and play correctly and they do not have 3/4 Merchants.

[zemanjaski]

I don't sideboard VFB in vs MBC; I just value them out with Phoenix, Chandra and Assemble.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I don't sideboard VFB in vs MBC; I just value them out with Phoenix, Chandra and Assemble.

+2 assemble, +2 chandra, +1 chained, +2 w//t, +1 mv

-4 shock, -4 mj

Hows my aim?

[zemanjaski]

-4 Boros Charm

[Lightning_Dolt]

Keep the jets?

[Aodh]

Keep the jets?

Yeah, that way you can find Assemble the Legion or Chandra, Pyromaster and beat them no matter how many staves they have.

[Purp]

I never enjoyed siding out MJ. I would be more inclined to side in 2 MM for G2, then if I saw staff or whip id put in the wears for g3. it's all about playstyle.

[Elricity]

I agree. You're just removing their stuff until you land a game winner unless they stumble. 1 for 1'ing staff is irrelevant.

Also, for his anti esper build, his boarding strategy hints on why he's willing to risk VFB.

-2 or 3 chain, -2 searing blood, -x shock.

Go find 8 cards in his board he'd bring in.

The only other alternative leaves Chandra in his sideboard game 2 which I find unlikely.

[zenbitz]

Sometimes GW will just kill you.... Wurm or Witchstalker (with or without Voice of Resurgence) into Unflinching Courage and your dead.
... nowadays we just have too play really cautiously and hope we hit our W//T on time (if we're running them).

Lost a very frustrating G3 to hexproof where I held w//t for a lifelink enchant and got slain by Ghor-Clan Rampager / Boros Charm.

[zenbitz]

I never enjoyed siding out MJ. I would be more inclined to side in 2 MM for G2, then if I saw staff or whip id put in the wears for g3. it's all about playstyle.

Agreed on the Jets and W/T

vs Mono-Black
-4 Shock, -2 Searing Blood, -2 Magma Jet
+2 Mizzium Mortars, ... stuff that makes sense

But I am a little confused on the Mortars... is this even if they don't play BBoV? Attack with Phoenix into DD and M2 mortars? Overload vs. packrats? It just doesn't seem like a super useful card against mono-black... I guess it kills a specter leaving a lightning strike for the dome?