[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[BlakLanner]

Intriguing but I am not so sure if it will be that great. How often will a 1/3 with no haste or evasion actually connect with our opponent?

[TBuzzsaw]

Thoughts?

Sally's going nuts over this card. I'm not sure what I think about it so far other than it's pretty bad in the current meta.

Personally I'm more interested in Twinflame.

[Helios]

Yea this really doesn't seem all that great...like it could find a home, but it isn't "amazing red staple" it's "build around me"

[TBuzzsaw]

I think I might test out Twinflame in Red Devotion. Having a haste Reckoner, Stormbreath, and Fanatic for 2 sounds fun.

[jsilv]

It's like Bizzaro Nightveil Specter / Daxos. The lack of evasion sucks, but I probably couldn't ever beat that if it hit me. The trample is such a weird addition that basically screams, 'CAST TITAN'S STRENGTH ON ME!'.

[Calamity]

I dunno if Prophetic flamespeaker is good but he's an interesting design. I like what wizards has been doing with red lately

[Christen]

Not good on its own. The Chandra 0 if he connects is ok, but with 1 power I don't see that happening often, specially at turn 4. Bad for a mythic imo.

[MattT]

Flamespeaker doesn´t want Haste. How would you use the cards you draw through him beyond land drop?

[GoblinWarchief]

The flamespeaker is quite bad but i like it because it's probably a reference to Heraclitus ( "fire to destroy fire to create" ) .

Everytime burn makes top 8 in legacy it seems to be a janky list without fetches and with weird card choices it's annoying to almost never see competent burn players in the format, but it's also funny

[Kaitscralt]

But it's not a Chandra 0, it's two Chandra 0's.

[F.I.A]

All the flamespeaker need is a [card]Madcap's Skill[/card] to wreak havoc. Also, a butt of 3 means it can tank a lot of damage (Pharika's cure, Drown etc). It's definitely a better red 3cc doublestriker than what we have gotten for these recent years.

Also, happy birthday, windstrider!

[BlakLanner]

Everytime burn makes top 8 in legacy it seems to be a janky list without fetches and with weird card choices it's annoying to almost never see competent burn players in the format, but it's also funny

There is nothing wrong with going without fetchlands. It is probably even wise to do so in a meta filled with Stifle. A few of the other cards did seem wierd. Some of the decisions he made on camera were indeed strange as well(Surgical vs Delver, going so all-in on Sulfuric/Pyrostatic). I suppose it isn't that big of a deal though. If the playerbase at large sees this kind of thing and loses respect for the deck, the only thing that will happen is they will get
blindsided when they get annihilated by a more tuned version.

[RedNihilist]

But it's not a Chandra 0, it's two Chandra 0's.

You are a king among men.

[Khaospawn]

Happy late b-day, windstrider!

[Christen]

But it's not a Chandra 0, it's two Chandra 0's.

I did say when he connects. I just didn't say he can connect twice

[F.I.A]

Is an off-color Ophidian bad right now? Only time will tell.

[BlakLanner]

Is an off-color Ophidian bad right now? Only time will tell.

It isn't Ophidian. You don't draw the card, you have to use it that turn.

[Midnight_v]

Is an off-color Ophidian bad right now? Only time will tell.

Thats what I kept thinking when i thought about it... but the immediacy clause aka "this turn" makes is somehow way worse honestly. Also, ophidan worked so well because it drew its own protection... R/x doesn't' do that.
Maybe a r/x counter burn type thing but then there's still mono black...
It doesn't look inherently good. Dies to removal is a shitty argument most times buut... when there are so many creatures that ignore it and also so many decks that are all removal. . . its kind of "a thing".
That being said... Its really a "COOL" card if you've ever read "The danger of cool things" you'll get what I mean.

[Valdarith]

Everytime burn makes top 8 in legacy it seems to be a janky list without fetches and with weird card choices it's annoying to almost never see competent burn players in the format, but it's also funny

There is nothing wrong with going without fetchlands. It is probably even wise to do so in a meta filled with Stifle. A few of the other cards did seem wierd. Some of the decisions he made on camera were indeed strange as well(Surgical vs Delver, going so all-in on Sulfuric/Pyrostatic). I suppose it isn't
that big of a deal though. If the playerbase at large sees this kind of thing and loses respect for the deck, the only thing that will happen is they will get blindsided when they get annihilated by a more tuned version.

Yeah, no fetches is fine if not running Grim Lavamancer (which I never saw in his games).

I think this player was fortunate enough to run into just the right matches to go undefeated. It seems the local meta there was incredibly aggressive and there didn't seem to be a lot of fast combo present. I don't see how he could fight through a meta full of ANT, Sneak/Show, or Reanimator, which is why I lean toward UR Delver for a mix of burn and countermagic.

[F.I.A]

Is an off-color Ophidian bad right now? Only time will tell.

It isn't Ophidian. You don't draw the card, you have to use it that turn.

It isn't, but that blue card doesn't get you two cards either. It definitely is worth the mythic slot than some flaming chicken in previous expansion.

[Midnight_v]

Is an off-color Ophidian bad right now? Only time will tell.

Funny thing just occured to me. I was reading people on mtg salvation complain about the maindeck Lifebane zombie . . .

This card should have been the red hate ogre, instead of the one whose name I can't remember. Lifebane,Witchstalker,Fiendslayer,Tidebinder... and I'm not even being funny I don't know the name of the fucking unplayable red one.

Prophetic Flame-speaker would be perfect for that and to be honest... even then the meta being what it is it might not take off. I'm pretty certain we're a standard rotation away (if ever) of PFS being a thing
*Sad Midnight_v

EDIT: Worth the mythic slot? Huh, you think so? I hated the flame chicken too. Imho This is equally bad.

[BlakLanner]

You speak of Mindsparker. I tried to get that to work but just couldn't.

He was indeed fortunate to get good matchups. Burn in Legacy is very much a meta call. I think he had Sneak and Show as well as ANT/TES covered but really had nothing against Reanimator or Elves. That lone Guerrilla Tactics is a bit insane unless you know you are facing a ton of discard.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Happy belated birthday windstrider.

The new wall of lifegain annoys me. Not as bad as fiendslayer paladin mind you, but just annoying. It's like wizards saying:

"oh don't you get any fucking ideas about playing aggro. We've tried really hard to hate it out of standard and you burn jerks kind of made an aggro-ish deck anyway. We're going to make sure we print something that punks aggro hard and hits burn hard with splash damage."

[F.I.A]

EDIT: Worth the mythic slot? Huh, you think so? I hated the flame chicken too. Imho This is equally bad.

1) Flamespeaker has an ability that is currently only available on a mythic for red.
2) It actually has something to help it getting through some damage (Double-strike and Trample. Usually red will only be getting First Strike here. Also a toughness of 3 compared like Academy Raider or Markov Blademaster)
3) It's not a card where your opponent choose what it will be.

Sure, it will most probably get killed by a Bile Blight, but the same goes to Chandra getting [card]Hero's Downfall[/card].

[Midnight_v]

EDIT: Worth the mythic slot? Huh, you think so? I hated the flame chicken too. Imho This is equally bad.

1) Flamespeaker has an ability that is currently only available on a mythic for red.
2) It actually has something to help it getting through some damage (Double-strike and Trample. Usually red will only be getting First Strike here. Also a toughness of 3 compared like Academy Raider or Markov Blademaster)
3) It's not a card where your opponent choose what it will be.

Sure, it will most probably
get killed by a Bile Blight, but the same goes to Chandra getting [card]Hero's Downfall[/card].

Huh. I see you're logic.
Mythic Rares can be "shit cards" if they do something kooky, out of the ordinary, or at a rare level for your color. and that's fine I guess.

Just to be clear though... are you saying you think this card is good?

As I said we're a set rotation "AT LEAST" from this being good. It is really cool though. In fact I'm happy with that new power, and I hope it stays in red. Reveal Top cards of library you may play them this turn seems neat, but it likely needs to come down from "Mythic only" status as you seem to be implying. or be an unquestionably
awesome variant of the effect.

[windstrider]

The new Flamespeaker will be interesting with bestow creatures. Voltron him up and swing in.

[Dechs Kaison]

The new Flamespeaker will be interesting with bestow creatures. Voltron him up and swing in.

Yeah, if only for the doublestrike/trample, with all the Bestow in this block, he's pretty beastly.

[Midnight_v]

I guess we'll see. . . I sincerely hope he becomes a thing.

What do you guys think of these "strive" cards so far?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Can it be flamespeaker > iroas time plz?

[Wraith223]

I guess we'll see. . . I sincerely hope he becomes a thing.

What do you guys think of these "strive" cards so far?

Not Cheap to cast for more than one use. Ain't no storm card! Might see play. The black remove from game one looks good but maybe as a one of for gods? The real threat this thing should have killed was hexproof creatures.

[Valdarith]

Can it be flamespeaker > iroas time plz?

Kind of a nonbo since you won't be able to cast any of the cards you reveal to him if you plop Iroas down the following turn.

Flamespeaker is pretty hard to evaluate. In the right shell he could be good but he requires a very specific set of cards to build around him. Tom Ross's RG aggro deck (the one I've recently adopted online) could be a good shell for him but there's tension at the three slot between him and Fanatic of Xenagos. What he lacks in pure power he makes up for with the ability to win out of nowhere with a combo element much like Ross's RG aggro deck has with Armed into Titan's Strength or a bloodrushed guy.

As it is I think the current meta is positioned against this guy,
but post rotation I could see him being a thing in a mono red list. For example, look at the following card pool.

[cards]Dragon Mantle
Everflame Eidolon
Titan's Strength
Thunderous Might
Fall of the Hammer[/cards]

Notice a trend here?

[Stardust]

Firebreathing goes against what this guy's trying to do too. Do you tap out for max damage and lose the cards? Doublestrike is obviously powerful, but when you need to pump this guy for damage and clear blockers and still keep mana open to make good use of his ability, that's just asking too much. He's too fragile to be putting all your eggs in one basket like that.

[DarthStabber]

Is an off-color Ophidian bad right now? Only time will tell.

It isn't Ophidian. You don't draw the card, you have to use it that turn.

Yeah, that's red's version of card draw. Red can't get proper draw for color pie reasons, but sometimes they need an effect like card draw and this is one of the best implementations to preserve that distinction while still being somewhat effective. And as previously stated, you really don't need haste on this guy, same reason you don't drop Chandra and immediately zero her. There could be a burn shell for
this guy, I could see it being a ton of fun as a 1-2 of in boros burn since it easily overcomes the fundamental weakness of that style of deck. Also with mogis's warhound it can be a serious threat. If I were playing burn at the moment I would be very interested in testing flamespeaker and spite of mogis (reminds me of skred which was a fantastic spell in it's time). In small aggro I want to be testing mogis's warhound and eidolon of the great revel, I think the warhound is better than anyone gives it credit for, he's still a bear and his bestow is so cheap (and leaves you with a creature after a board wipe).

[Valdarith]

Firebreathing goes against what this guy's trying to do too. Do you tap out for max damage and lose the cards? Doublestrike is obviously powerful, but when you need to pump this guy for damage and clear blockers and still keep mana open to make good use of his ability, that's just asking too much. He's too fragile to be putting all your eggs in one basket like that.

You don't use all your mana for the firebreathing effect. Basically you'd be playing cards like Akroan Crusader, Firedrinker Satyr, the newly spoiler one drop, etc and making maximum use of your mana every turn. If you happen to enchant the Flamespeaker with one of the firebreathing effects, so be it. You can pump him for one to get four total damage and reveal a couple of cards from
it.

[Stardust]

That's fair, but then I don't really understand why you're even playing a 2/3 for 3, you know? You're making maximum use of your mana and of what cards you've already got... Drawing more cards ends up reducing the power of every card you've already played if you're running like that. Not saying card draw is going to be bad for a deck like that, but it's definitely not synergy.

Then again, maybe I should be looking at this guy as a strictly better Two-Headed Cerberus instead of trying to maximize his card draw use. Even tapping out, but hitting your land drop for the turn off of him is good value.

[Purp]

In a world full of doomblade, abrupt decay, ultimate price, last breath and heros downfall. How will this guy be any good at all?

[Valdarith]

That's fair, but then I don't really understand why you're even playing a 2/3 for 3, you know? You're making maximum use of your mana and of what cards you've already got... Drawing more cards ends up reducing the power of every card you've already played if you're running like that. Not saying card draw is going to be bad for a deck like that, but it's definitely not synergy.

Then again, maybe I should be looking at this guy as a strictly better Two-Headed Cerberus instead of trying to maximize his card draw use. Even tapping out, but hitting your land drop for the turn off of him is good value.

Now you're on to why I said he's difficult to evaluate. There's definitely a tension there and it's hard to
tell how good he is without playing the card. Again, I don't think he's playable in this current environment, but I think he could be really good in Block Constructed and perhaps following rotation.

[Helios]

In a world full of doomblade, abrupt decay, ultimate price, last breath and heros downfall. How will this guy be any good at all?

So it...dies to removal?

[LP, of the Fires]

For what it's worth, if you give this guy some sort of firebreathing affect and he goes unblocked, you can deal 1 damage, reveal, see if you want to cast the card(say you reveal a lightning strike and have for mana available) and then elect to pump twice.

There are...layers.

[Dechs Kaison]

Again, I think it's a strong card without the reddraw. Any kind of Bestow is going to make him ridiculous. He already has trample and double strike. It's not that he dies to removal, it's that he only dies to removal.

Then again, I should look at the card on its own. A 1/3 double strike is not that impressive and you don't want to rely on him being anything more than that.