[Primer] Boros Burn

[magicdownunder]

I'm an online only player (ranked 36), burn is the 2nd most played deck in the format (most run 3-4 searing blood) what I do is just NOT cast the creatures once its hits the T4+ mark (UNLESS I CAN PROFIT SOMEHOW) - I feel that preboarding against burn and control is more hassle then its worth esp. if it slightly reduces your chances against decks like Ux and Bx.

[TBuzzsaw]

I may just put 3 YP$ back into the main, both Toil//Trouble and one BO back into the side.

What do you think about this for the side:

[deck]Sideboard
3 Burning Earth
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Toil//Trouble
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Blind Obedience
1 Wear//Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

My meta has become fairly diverse. Everything can be found except MUD and BW Midrange. Control and red decks have been popular.

- I looked very carefully at the Esper/American control deck mana bases. They're back to running virtually no basics so Burning Earth is back in my sideboard.
- All control decks are siding BO and FSP. Glare can hit them both.
- Single Anger is for aggro, dunno if it's the best move. Maybe have the 4th Shock instead?

[zemanjaski]

Won another 1K.

[LaZerBurn]

Wll done!

[JohnnyfnB]

I'm an online only player (ranked 36), burn is the 2nd most played deck in the format (most run 3-4 searing blood) what I do is just NOT cast the creatures once its hits the T4+ mark (UNLESS I CAN PROFIT SOMEHOW) - I feel that preboarding against burn and control is more hassle then its worth esp. if it slightly reduces your chances against decks like Ux and Bx.

That's exactly what I did against the b/w player. He had a handful of removal and a BO out. I held my Phoenix and that just loaded his hand up for trouble. I understand burn doesn't have that problem, but it's the same premise.

[JohnnyfnB]

Awesome job Zem. That's impressive dude! How many 1ks is this now?

[zemanjaski]

23rd GP Melbourne
1st GPT Nagoya
5th-8th $1K
1st $1K

Went:
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs MBC
1-2 vs MBC (two mull to 5)
2-1 vs GW Aggro
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs GB Dredge
Quarterfinal: 2-0 vs Esper Control
Semifinal: 2-0 vs GB Dredge
Final: 2-1 vs Esper Control

[BrainsickHater]

It's been a while since I've been on this forum/played standard and I've kind of lost track of where everyone is with this deck. After quickly reading through some pages, this is what I gather on the evolution of the deck:

1. The last version I see/play with is right before the discussion on control decks playing Blind Obedience. As a result of BloB.....
2. Discussion begins on Young Pyromancer as a very efficient threat that matches up well against a great many decks in the Standard format and is good against BloB.
3. YP moves from the SB to the main deck.
4. ???
5. People are maindecking 4 Toil//Trouble over 4 Ash Zealot or 4 Young Pyromancer. This is presumably due to the huge presence of UW, MB, and Burn in the standard format.

This leaves me with questions.

1. Why did we move away from Young Pyromancer? I never liked him in the burn deck, but I'm curious as to why other people have gone on the
Toil version.
2. How does the Toil version play against Aggro? Aggro/creature decks are very prevalent at my LGS, but I definitely feel like my deck is lacking game against control.
3. Lastly, how do people feel about playing YP out of the board again? I find that my control opponents are boarding out ALL of their DSpheres and Supreme Verdicts against me.

[HK1997]

It's been a while since I've been on this forum/played standard and I've kind of lost track of where everyone is with this deck. After quickly reading through some pages, this is what I gather on the evolution of the deck:

1. Why did we move away from Young Pyromancer? I never liked him in the burn deck, but I'm curious as to why other people have gone on the Toil version.
2. How does the Toil version play against Aggro? Aggro/creature decks are very prevalent at my LGS, but I definitely feel like my deck is lacking game against control.
3. Lastly, how do people feel about playing YP out of the board again? I find that my control opponents are boarding out ALL of their DSpheres and Supreme Verdicts against me.

1) I dont think
WE did. Some did and some didnt. Its a coin toss, based on your meta I think.
2) Toil does ok vs aggro post baord when you bring in the firedancers, but not great.
3) I have not had a game where UW control boarded out Dspheres.

[Redzone]

Just placed second in a GPT, deck ran fine except for one match versus mono blue where I didnt draw a single cttr or dancer over both games.

[LaZerBurn]

@ BSHater - Check over the thread again your first 2 questions are answered in it and from that you'll be able to answer the 3rd one yourself

[Kyarie]

Went 3-1 again last night with same list as before. NerdBoyWonder GP Phoenix list with the Wear//Tear in the board replaced by Mutavault.

Match 1 0-2 vs Naya Hexproof. He won game one handily with a turn 3 witchstalker into unflinching courage. Game 2, I fought through fiendslayer paladin with madcap skills, a Wurm token with unflinching courage, was at 1 life, him at 12, assemble on board with 3 counters and damned if he doesn't play out another Wurm token on my end step and play another unflinching courage. Really tough matchup... Enjoyed trying to win it though.

Match 2 2-1 vs Black Devotion splash blue and red. Blue was for 2 main deck negate and 3 Ashiok and red was for 2 Rakdos's Return. Tough games slogging through the hand disruption but got there. 3rd game I pushed through 1 Thoughtseize, 3 Duress, 1 Rakdos's Return and 1 Negate.

Match 3 2-1 vs homebrew B/W humans with the cauldron/angel
enchantment package. This one took me by surprise and the lifegain was too much game one but I learned the deck. Game 2 and 3 I just made sure to deal with the linchpins of the deck and work through.

Match 4 2-0 vs homebrew G/U midrange flash. I drew creatures early in both matches controlled the board and beat face.

Afterward I played the guy who got 2nd with an Esper deck and quickly burned his face off both games. Fun night but I really could have had better match ups.

Hope everyone playing in large events this weekend burns face.

[LP, of the Fires]

23rd GP Melbourne
1st GPT Nagoya
5th-8th $1K
1st $1K

Went:
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs MBC
1-2 vs MBC (two mull to 5)
2-1 vs GW Aggro
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs GB Dredge
Quarterfinal: 2-0 vs Esper Control
Semifinal: 2-0 vs GB Dredge
Final: 2-1 vs Esper Control

You're getting close to toping my January Streak

Set the world on fire.

[Aodh]

I managed to lose three impossible matches at 6-round FNM.

Lost to MBD after T5 Assemble -> T6 Assemble.
Lost to Burn due to mulligans 1-2, then beat him 7 times in a row.
Lost to MUD after T2 SFD -> T3 Phoenix -> T4 SFD -> T5 Phoenix. Never drew white for 2x BC, 1x WLH, 2x CttR. -.-

[cloudscraper]

Guys, how do you approach the matchup against BW Midrange?

it is the only deck in standard I keep having a 50-50 record against.

(excluding niche decks)

Should we try to prolong the games, 2for1 ourselves to kill Obzedat, try to chains the Demons and burn pack rat ASAP and try to strand their removals and beat them on amount of spell/lands ratio?

[BlakLanner]

I tend to prefer being faster. They can eventually draw out of anything we do if we give them time. There are two strategies to Obzedat. If your opponent is really low, you can Skullcrack his trigger and burn him out. If you are going to need more than one turn to kill him, you have to kill the Obzedat or the life gain will simply bury you.

[LaZerBurn]

Blind Obedience usually buys you enough time to kill them.

[cloudscraper]

Consider that I'm currently playing the Toil/Trouble list with just 4 phoenixes.

I don't think Obzedat ATTACKING is the real issue, the combination of INSANE discard (people here in Italy are playing, on average, 4 seize 3 duress and a couple Sin Collectors on average... that easily makes a Desecration Demon go unharmed more often than not) and huge threats is.

Obzedat is of course good, but 2 - for - 1 -ing to kill him is not necessarily game over for us.

I've noticed that Toil / Trouble becomes bad on the draw versus this deck boarding in lots of cheap discard spells. They can ignore it and discard the other burn spells cause it would be 3 mana 4 damage especially when we are on the draw. I'd even like to cut down on their number post board when on the draw but I keep feeling wrong.

I wish I could have 4 Blind Obediences, 20 Assemble the Legion and still be a good burn deck.

nToday I lost 2 games in a row in which I slammed Assemble on turn 5. //Sorry Zem, my Assembles aren't undefeated anymoooore
The first game saw me facing a Demon, 2 rats, and he responded to my assemble with his Obzedat (yup that's a case where it is good).
The second game he had 2 Demons, I Assembled, but it wasn't enough since my first token got doombladed.

Do you have all 4 Chained to the rocks against a deck with Rats, Demons, Obzedats and maaaaaybe Barons? I don't like the low amount of targets available (No Nightveils, No Brimaz)

My sideboarding plan against versions that don't show me Brimaz or Spectre during game 1 is:

- 3 Shock
- 2 Magma Jet

+ 1 Chained
+ 2 Chandra
+ 2 Assembles

I have a 4th Chained in the board, I usually swap a toil trouble for the fourth Chained on the draw, the reasoning being that the second Toil/Trouble is FOR SURE bad when OTD, but it doesn't feel awesome.

[magicdownunder]

DE Report (6950549)
G1 Bx Devotion vs Blind Zurm MDU DE 6950546
G2 Bx Devotion vs Blind Zurm MDU DE 6950549
G3 UBG Heroic vs Blind Zurm MDU DE 6950549
G4 Esper Control vs Blind Zurm MDU DE 6950549

@cloudscraper: BW Control runs 9 discards spells vs Bx Devotion 8 discards spells (so now a day the differences is paper thin) though they're running 2-3x enchantment
hate so its not that easy to play assembles and just win.....

You have two options: 1) get lucky and T3 T//T them or 2) grind at them from multible angles - BO, Chandra, Assemble, Creatures and Burns.

In regards with chains, if they're running DD run chains if not cut them.

[DXI-Edge]

23rd GP Melbourne
1st GPT Nagoya
5th-8th $1K
1st $1K

Went:
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs MBC
1-2 vs MBC (two mull to 5)
2-1 vs GW Aggro
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs GB Dredge
Quarterfinal: 2-0 vs Esper Control
Semifinal: 2-0 vs GB Dredge
Final: 2-1 vs Esper Control

Hate to be that guy but what were you running?

[BiddingMaster]

Z, you said there was an updated toil/trouble list and I wold like to know what the changes are. Im not running the exact list you posted for it but I changed a few things bases on what other people were talking about on the forum that made sense. Also how do you guys post decklists on here in that blue box thing that makes it all nice and pretty. If I knew how I would post the list im playing.

[Aodh]

(Deck) ... (/deck) with [] instead of ().

[zemanjaski]

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn, GLOS $1k Monthly, 1st]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Enchantments
3 Chained to the Rocks

Instants
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Lands
2 Boros Guildgate
8 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Chained to the Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
3 Viashino Firstblade
2 Wear // Tear
[/deck]

[BlakLanner]

Back on Firstblade, I see. Think the threat of BlOb and Lifebane is mostly past?

[zemanjaski]

No I thought that everyone would be on those cards but decided to run Firstblades anyway because YOLO.

Seriously, kill me.

[JohnnyfnB]

23rd GP Melbourne
1st GPT Nagoya
5th-8th $1K
1st $1K

Went:
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs MBC
1-2 vs MBC (two mull to 5)
2-1 vs GW Aggro
2-0 vs MBC
2-0 vs GB Dredget
Quarterfinal: 2-0 vs Esper Control
Semifinal: 2-0 vs GB Dredge
Final: 2-1 vs Esper Control

Very impressive dude! I don't see burn going away anytime soon.

[tzir]

[deck=Zemanjaski's Boros Burn, GLOS $1k Monthly, 1st]
Creatures
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence

Sideboard
3 Viashino Firstblade
[/deck]

I'm glad I'm not the only one willing to run the extra scrylands even without Toil//Trouble. I don't think I have it in me to go back to Firstblade over Firedrinker or Cackler right now, though.

[dauntless268]

What's the double wear/tear for? You'd bring them both in vs. Esper?

[magicdownunder]

I may just put 3 YP$ back into the main, both Toil//Trouble and one BO back into the side.

What do you think about this for the side:

[deck]Sideboard
3 Burning Earth
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Toil//Trouble
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Blind Obedience
1 Wear//Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

My meta has become fairly diverse. Everything can be found except MUD and BW Midrange. Control and red decks have been popular.

- I looked very carefully at the Esper/American control deck mana bases. They're back to running virtually no basics so Burning Earth is back in my sideboard.
- All control decks are siding BO and FSP. Glare can hit them both.
- Single Anger is for aggro, dunno if it's the best move. Maybe have the 4th
Shock instead?

How are you actually SB'ing? Could you post your "ins" and "outs" for each MU? I'll try and help once you've done that.

[montu]

Here's of the most satisfying wins I've had in a long time (during the current DE).

I needed to win before he got a Gary (or a board sweep), so I cast Toil on myself and go to 1 life, drawing a Lightning Strike and Magma Jet. Next turn I draw another Lightning Strike. With the Satyr Firedancer on board, I do 8 damage to him (and kill one of his Rats), which give me enough room to swing for the win.

[zemanjaski]

You're a powerful wizard.

[magicdownunder]

I like that dancer in the Bw Devotion MU

[Midnight_v]

Colin Chilbert

Age: 26

Occupation: Technical Writer & Graphic Designer

Hometown:
Syracuse, NY

Archetype:
R/W Burn

Why did you choose to play this deck this weekend?
I DIDN'T WANT TO THINK ON SATURDAY

What spoiled card from Journey into Nyx are you most excited about, and why?
Mana Confluence, great new 5-color land

Watching his match now. . . hoping he loses. Shit talking fucker.

Edit: Annd he's out... Purphoros has spoken.

[magicdownunder]

He lost 0-2 vs GW running the Ash version.

[surelock]

I top 8'd a 32 man SCG IQ with a Blind Zurm type decklist (will track it down online if possible otherwise I will have to enter it manually).

Rd 1 - Mono U I got stuck on 2 lands game 1 for 3 turns and still managed to make a game of it when my mana did start flowing, games 2 and 3 I had mana and the only sb'ing I did was to add a BO and another CtR.

Rd2 - BW midrange easily the matchup I dislike the most, I lost the first game in a close intense match and then won the second with Toil/Trouble dealing 11 total. The third came down to the both of us being at 2 life and him drawing a demon and devour flesh before I drew the burn I needed.

Rd 3 - Boros Burn this was the reason I wanted to play the Zurm type list as I think this matchup starts in my favor, and with decent sb'ing gets a bit better, I won 2-0 not much to say on that.

Rd 4 - Mono Black devotion I like this matchup also and actually wanted to play
against it all day long, I won the first game (my opening hand of 3 Yps and 2 Phoenixes and 2 lands was very nice) and lost the second on a greedy 1 land keep w/ 2 T/T and YP and 3 burn spells. Game 3 was very intense and I pulled it out with a coupla well timed Skullcracks.

Rd 5 - Mono Black devotion again, I kept poor notes but it was another 2-1 with T/T basically giving me 1 free game doing 20 damage in the last 2 games.

Top 8 - I met GR monsters and snuck game 1 out, and then game 2 a resolved turn 2 Bow of Nylea pretty much locked it down for him, I just never really got back in it after that, game 3 he resolved the Bow on turn 4 and I had a decent shot until I screwed up at 4 lands and paid for an extort on my mortars to his Strombreath with him having 2 mana open to pump it (I had the lightning strike in hand) and he finished me off with Dragon, Rampager, Flesh.

All in all a good showing and I must say I like the extra flexibility that Young Pyromancer gives me and a BO main was great when
ever I drew it, the Chandra main was unexciting all day, mostly only keeping me from taking a hit for a turn or 2, so I will prob move them to the sb. I do feel that Whip of Erebos is not as bad as it felt w/ straight RW burn but the Bow of Nylea felt very difficult to beat with no enchantment removal.

Edit - I just did not want to have to think on Saturday.

[Midnight_v]

He lost 0-2 vs GW running the Ash version.

I know it was excruciating to watch, but he deserved it for being cocsker enough to say shit like that.

As if we don't get enough disrespect from their encounters from random scrubs.
Meh.

[JohnnyfnB]

I have found out that if you run AZ you need to run Titans Strength or many times it's a dead card. I eventually just dropped AZ and went with the more Dega burn version. You can tell he just copied a list and played. Some of his games he made play mistakes that a burn player wouldn't have made. I didn't want to think my ass!

[Self Medicated]

Colin Chilbert

Age: 26

Occupation: Technical Writer & Graphic Designer

Hometown:
Syracuse, NY

Archetype:
R/W Burn

Why did you choose to play this deck this weekend?
I DIDN'T WANT TO THINK ON SATURDAY

What spoiled card from Journey into Nyx are you most excited about, and why?
Mana Confluence, great new 5-color land

Looks like he didn't think on Sunday either.

[jsilv]

I am boggled how you guys still get offended because someone plays the deck and doesn't find a requisite amount of skill to make yourselves feel better. I kinda got why people were annoyed at PV for saying it, because he's played like ten games with the deck, but if you play an 11 round tourney + T8 and make that statement I'm not really sure how you can complain.

Plus in the same breath, Zem gets asked the same stupid fucking questions every other page. That amuses me way more.

If you do well, it really shouldn't matter. I feel like we've gone past the point of 'oh we want to prove them wrong by showing the deck is good' to 'oh I want everyone to change their worldview of how red decks are seen' in which case GOOD FUCKING LUCK.

[Valdarith]

Have to agree with Silvestri here. Some of you are taking this a bit too seriously. Stop caring what others think and just beat face. Results speak for themselves.