[Primer] Boros Burn

[Pedros]

vs Black I Had toil and troubled.

Draw 2, Get 2 Chandra Phoenix Back, Deal 3. Opponent lost both games when he had whip and 4/4 pack rats.

G2 vs Red. Stabilize on 1 life, land BO, Land Chandra kill creature extort get 3 chandra phoenixes back. Next turn land Phoenix for block Extort +1 swing mutavault. Next turn land phoenix extort attack mutavault.
I didnt want to loose to lightning strike in response to BO trigger so I waited and ultimated Chandra Copying Helix 3 times. GG Sir finished at 15 life.

[LaZerBurn]

Mirror - I'm at 1, he's tapped out at 17. 'Luckily he is bad and has ignored Chandra and I can count so I attack with Vault to put him to 15, Skullcrack him to 12 and ultimate Chandra for exactsies

[Aodh]

He's not bad because he ignored Chandra, TBH. Awesome for you to win that one, though. I played Chandra on 4 at the GP, plussed to draw a Phoenix, and my opponent cast two spells to kill her (once on each of our turns). There was no way he could beat me after that.

[Aodh]

By the way: 3-0 Jace piles are suspicious as fuck, lol.

[Elricity]

He's not bad because he ignored Chandra, TBH. Awesome for you to win that one, though. I played Chandra on 4 at the GP, plussed to draw a Phoenix, and my opponent cast two spells to kill her (once on each of our turns). There was no way he could beat me after that.

Ignoring it for most of the game, sure. But when you're facing an ultimate Chandra, not pinging her down is giving up the game if she digs a helix and you don't at least have skullcrack mana up. There's zero reason in the burn mirror to tap out that late in the game if it isn't killing your opponent.

[zenbitz]

By the way: 3-0 Jace piles are suspicious as fuck, lol.

This is really funny. What about BLUFFED 3-0 jace piles repping trouble?

[Aodh]

He's not bad because he ignored Chandra, TBH. Awesome for you to win that one, though. I played Chandra on 4 at the GP, plussed to draw a Phoenix, and my opponent cast two spells to kill her (once on each of our turns). There was no way he could beat me after that.

Ignoring it for most of the game, sure. But when you're facing an ultimate Chandra, not pinging her down is giving up the game if she digs a helix and you don't at least have skullcrack mana up. There's zero reason in the burn mirror to tap out that late in the game if it isn't killing your opponent.

Yeah,
of course you have a point. We don't know everything about the game state, so I'm just trying to make it clear that 1-for-0ing or 2-for-1ing a Chandra is more wrong than ignoring her.

[zenbitz]

I actually find 'walkers threatening ultimate tricky for this deck. You really, really want to ignore them melt face... but I think there are times where you have to chuck a magma jet at one just to buy 2 more draw steps. Also tricky are Jaces with 2 loyalty. Unless we have trouble...

[Purp]

[magicdownunder]

Thoughts on Peak Eruption vs Monster, is it an overpriced Lava spike? Or does it have real meaningful impact on the game state? (I'm trying too justify PE over BO now)

[JohnnyfnB]

BO > PE. PE losses value with all the mana dorks and does 3 dmg for 3.

[Purp]

There is a lot more obzedat than mountains right now due to the new reanimator and junk lists, i say BO.

[Aodh]

Played some games on Cockatrice with this deck:

[deck]Non-Land Permanents
2 Blind Obedience
3 Chained to the Rocks
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Toil // Trouble

Lands
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Temple of Silence
1 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Satyr Firedancer
3 Viashino Firstblade
3 Peak Eruption
1 Chained to the Rocks[/deck]

Felt REALLY consistent.

[zemanjaski]

No Mutavault?

[TBuzzsaw]

So it seems burn and aggro (Rakdos and GR Ross) in general is really picking up steam in my meta. I'm thinking of trying this out:

[deck]Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Toil//Trouble
2 Blind Obedience
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Skullcrack
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
3 Chained to the Rocks

Lands
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Temple of Silence
3 Mutavault
8 Mountain

Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Spark Trooper
1 Toil//Trouble
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Wear//Tear
1 Chained to the Rocks
[/deck]

Now I have four spots open after taking out YP$ from the main and putting BO and TT in its place. I may put two Peak Eruptions in their place (all non-control decks here seem to run red), and this is a crazy thought, but how about the remaining two spaces go to Fiendslayer Paladin? Is 12 white
sources enough to cast turn 3 or 4, or am I better off finding something else in its place?

[LaZerBurn]

Thoughts on Peak Eruption vs Monster, is it an overpriced Lava spike? Or does it have real meaningful impact on the game state? (I'm trying too justify PE over BO now)

I agree with Purp. I've tested it and occassionally it's has a meaningful impact on the game state- T3 on the play being the best example - but not enough to warrant inclusion over BO IMHO.

[magicdownunder]

I actually really like Mezzel set-up 3x PE + 2x BO

This way you have BO for Ghostdad/whip MU on time (T4+), and you have something nasty ready for Burn MU on T2-3 with either BO or PE.

[LaZerBurn]

Greedy, I like it - I'm off to check the list

[LaZerBurn]

Did you see the Mezzel ran FSP? http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/227778

[TBuzzsaw]

Okay, looks like I'll be using Fiendslayer in the side then.

[magicdownunder]

Did you see the Mezzel ran FSP? http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/227778

That's because he is insane, I know he has a greater then 50% chance of hitting 2 white sources by T3 on the play BUT!!! G2-3 burn has 2-4 chains with 0 targets so I'm not really sure where he is going with the plan.

That said among online grinders Mezzel has a very consistent winrate, he doesn't farm the SE like we do so his standings on the potyr isn't as good however in term of DE's he a grinding king - so perhaps he sees something which I don't....

[TBuzzsaw]

Talking with some burn players they've told me they've started to board out Chain in favor of Searing Blood to take care of creatures in the mirror because they want to win the race. If they keep the Chains it's fine by me, since I can just blow them up with PE.

[magicdownunder]

That's what Mezzel just told me - I'll admit FSP would break open the mirror.

I still think its rather risky with only 12 white sources.... (mathematically on the play from your first 60 cards the odd of you hitting double w by turn 3 is 58% on the draw its 64.6%, factoring in the 8 scry lands and 4 MJ you can also dig 12 cards deep increasing your odds - those are decent odds, however they'll most likely punish you during critical games but hey "YOLO" and its not like you'll hit FSP on T3 all the time with just two in your list anyways)

[warwizard87]

Discussion will be for format legal cards only. Also stop discussing obviously bad cards. Don't make me list them.

YOU THINK YOU WIELD SOME POWER WITH RED TEXT? THERE ARE NO RULES HERE AND NOBODY TO BE INFRACTED. WHAT WILL HAPPEN? YOU CANNOT BE BANNED OR SUSPENDED. ALL THE FORMAT LEGAL CARDS WILL BE THROWN OUT THE WINDOW

nothing to see here... move along

[RedNihilist]

He's just kidding btw...

[warwizard87]

He's just kidding btw...

sarcasm doesn't come over well on the interwebs

[RedNihilist]

Don't worry

[TBuzzsaw]

That's what Mezzel just told me - I'll admit FSP would break open the mirror.

I still think its rather risky with only 12 white sources.... (mathematically on the play from your first 60 cards the odd of you hitting double w by turn 3 is 58% on the draw its 64.6%, factoring in the 8 scry lands and 4 MJ you can also dig 12 cards deep increasing your odds - those are decent odds, however they'll most likely punish you during critical games but hey "YOLO" and its not like you'll hit FSP on T3 all the time with just two in your list anyways)

I'm finding the deck is getting increasingly popular. Mirror can be scary and go either way, and I'd like to increase my odds against them however I can. I saw a match earlier in the week
where a mirror match almost went to time because in two of the rounds both players got each other under 5 life at the same time. Both kept passing turns afraid to be the first to pull the trigger until they felt they had the right combo of low cost burn spells to fire off and be the last one to play a spell. I don't know if you guys have seen this scenario or ever been in it, but I'd sure like to avoid it.

[Jonnymagic]

I love the idea of having a lifegain source that is semi hexproof, but it makes it so you can't have muta. Muta is too good against mono B/esper/uw. I won the finals of the BNG qualifier last night by doing 16 damage with mutavault. He kept holding mana back knowing that I had toil/trouble, and I just bashed in with muta. I play one glare, will probably play 2 now (over wear/tear most likely), and that can be the answer if that guy becomes more of a thing in the mirror. At that point you're covering your bases with both esper and the insane person's mirror, without destroying the muta mana base.

[magicdownunder]

TBuzzsaw's manabase supports 12 W and 3 vaults, its very similar too my base which I've used to win a fair amount of games so I can vouch for it.

That said I'm not convinced about FSP mainly because chains is a card, sure you have run it side-by-side with PE but you'll end up dedicating some much hate for one MU that you'll soften the others.

[gozmit97]

Are we still on the pyromancer plan or have we evolved again?

[Jonnymagic]

@Mdu I was referring more to the one Mezzel had -- unless I read it wrong it had no muta to have more consistent ww/rr. @gozmit there's no right answer, I ran pyro yesterday and 5-0ed the BNG qualifier. It really depends what kind of game you want to play. Pyromaster is the more grindy matchup, which is great vs mono B because you simply outlast them and their discard/removal.

[TBuzzsaw]

TBuzzsaw's manabase supports 12 W and 3 vaults, its very similar too my base which I've used to win a fair amount of games so I can vouch for it.

That said I'm not convinced about FSP mainly because chains is a card, sure you have run it side-by-side with PE but you'll end up dedicating some much hate for one MU that you'll soften the others.

I'm definitely testing it out at FNM. Having BO, PE, and FSP just seem like an absolute pain for the opponent. I'll give a report on how it does if it ever hits the board.

[PirateKingAtomsk]

ACHIVEMENT UNCLOCKED

Searing Blood oposite Firedrinker Satyr with Young Pyromancer on board and 2 Chandra Phoenix in graveyard.

Read this as you having a satyr firedancer on board and thought, yeah a 2 mana 8 damage spell is nice.

[Elricity]

Are we still on the pyromancer plan or have we evolved again?

A couple people have toyed with it in a couple of specific metas.

I don't recommend excluding YP unless you know EXACTLY why.

About FSP, I don't like it either. You also have boros charm to counter him.

[Aodh]

No Mutavault?

This is more along the lines of the creatureless burn plan. Cutting Mutavaults makes the rest of the mana a lot better: 19 red, 13 white, 4 black, 14 untapped/mountains, 8 out of 9 CIPT lands Scry...

[DXI-Edge]

^"I dont own Mutavaults"

[Aodh]

I own 8 Mutavaults. I ran 3 main 1 side at the GP. And my second choice deck was 4 Muta MBA. An sometimes you have to sacrifice power for consistency. I'm not sure if it's right, but it lets us hit all of our mana's needs cleanly.

[mutantcrock]

Would SotP be enough to turn the mirror favorable? He is a lot easier to cast and their charms and helixes would only do 3.

[TBuzzsaw]

The last thing you want is a dinky 2/1 creature with a "fry me" target that does nothing for the deck.